johnmbowen

Definately "roll your own." Our Troop has done this for years and we have even quit going to any Scout camp as they really don't provide the quality of experience that we now demand. I would highly recommend the trip mentioned previously, the Weminuche Wilderness trip accessed by the Durango to Silverton Narrow Guage RR. It is highly spectacular. Our Troop did it easily, but beware, you have to cross the Cont. Devide twice from Elk Park to Needleton via the Vallecito Trail and traversing Chicago Basin (about 32 miles and five days and surrounded by 14000 foot peaks). I recommended thi

What I want to add to this discussion at this late date is that being a BSA Lifeguard, or for that matter a pool lifeguard, Red Cross Certified or not does not make anyone, adult or kid capable of any rescue in swift or even moving water. The Safety Afloat and Swim Safety are just a set of rules that we have to follow to have the BSA insurance work for you. They are generally good rules, except for the paltry requirement of a BSA lifeguard on board. In canoeing, rafting or kayaking, this is worse than useless, as it might cause the lifeguard to rush into a situation he is not trained

What, self doubt with the Eagle Factorys! Well, I never... I am going to weigh in with Le Voyager, et al. on the value of early Eagles. Surely the Eagle rank is a fine accomplishment if it is done by the boy himself, even with help. But I agree that perhaps only about 5% of the Scout population has this drive to succeed on his own. Is it what all Scouts want, and is it the sum of Scouting? Unfortunately, I have known many Eagles who as 'serving Scouts' that not only couldn't tie knots, they couldn't set up a tent or do most anything practical! On questioning, they couldn't rem

I have just sent Hopps Scout a short blurb on whitewater rafting for his webpage on High Adventure Scouting

Any swiftwater activity is dangerous, and the swifer the water the more dangerous! Proper training is the key. Rafts are the most stable and forgiving of the three mentioned above. Kayaks, assuming that the kayaker knows what they are doing, are usually safer than white water canoeing. Canoes are the most difficult and elegant of the whitewater craft, but definatly require the highest order of skill to run them competently. I have no idea why the BSA Whitewater MB is based mainly on whitewater canoeing! The reason that kayakers die on rivers is because they tend to push the lim

Hi Folks I am trying to compile a list of Troops that do whitewater rafting (ok...kayaking too), especially those that run their own rafts and train their Scouts as rafters. The idea is to coordinate trips and rivers for joint outings. If any of you are out there, please reply. JB

Glacier, Ice Climbing et al. HI Lee My Troop does all of these things. I do not believe that there are any solid qualifications for glacier travel, or sea kayaking other than "Climb on Safely" and "Safety Afloat." The way that we do it safely is that we have a whole group of ASM "specialists" who are highly qualified climbers, rafters, etc. that we have co-opted (Local professional guides as well) and who sub in as ASMs who train the Scouts heavily prior to going on the trips and then accompany them. We dont bug the ASM specialists except for the outing of their expertise, so th

I am on station in Wyo running rafting trips. ARe you still interested in this website?

Indeed, that is the first step in a first response Standard Operating Proceedure (SOP) from ARC procedures. However, in any response, especially in one that will involve a definite threat to life especially as in the Swiftwater Rescue, or even rock rescue, the rescuer who assumes the position of Incident Commander will have to make the hard decision as to whether or not he/she and the other rescuers are prepaired, knowledgible, and in position to perform the rescue without endangering their own lives unduly. This decision would be done at basically the same time as the first step

Appologies to hopps_scout for my being blunt and short in the last message. My intention was not to walk on him. He is a actual Scout, not an adult Scouter, and so is serious about his questions. I didn't realize the author was you. My mistake. I have often been exhasperated by opinions expressed by adult Scouters on subjects that they should either know, or have done some research on. Especially on the more outdoor subjects that they ought to know something about but so often don't, as they are the ones who take the youth out. So, follows what I should have written. After

Bad example: Swiftwater Rescue is something that is highly technical and very dangerous, similar to high angle rock rescue. Training is absolutely required, and a great deal of practice is necessary. I only help teach each, and even with lots of practice, I would stay away from either, unless you were forced, which is not the case with SAR. In any event, the pro SARs would most likely say, 'thanks, but no thanks.' There are many things that people younger than 18 can contribute, and do well, but going into danger as in these examples, where the rescuer could become a victim in secon

Well, I just got the "official" ARC WFA material from ARC. This is a ARC published course that was originated in Transylvania Chapter in NC. Of course a great deal of the course is advanced first aid which is necessary, but I was dissappointed to see that they did not cover as much as I thought they should in the catagories of lengthy care, methods of trauma care over time, when to and when not to evacuate and evacuation methods, as well as planning not to get in trouble, as we do when we have taught it. Though getting just about anything is better than not getting it, one ought to go

Mr hopps_scout, who is a webmaster, has told me that he is very interested in this project and would kindly consider setting up a webpage for high adventure troops, with perhaps a trip log, planner, and pages of tips on how to. We corresponded by email and talked about some structure for it. He knows how to do the web page, but hasn't had much experience with high adventure himself. At this point, he would probably need some written material from those of us who have set up and have run high adventure of different sorts to give him information to set the page up. He may be thinki

Hi Hopps and all Hopps-Scout stated above that we could make up such a webpage. I think that this is a great idea, does anyone else concur? If we have several respondents we could set up some kind of webpage right here on Scouter.com that can be accessed by anyone interested. Any other takers...I'm in! jb

Hey, we are beginning to network here! We could set up a section of this proposed webpage offering trips, as Mike is suggesting! Well, I can do some stuff if you are in the WYO area. Also, My Troop every summer takes out a Scout group from elesewhere on either a rock climb or a river trip (we could also do a Colo 14er). These are a situations where we train the boys in the actual techniques and skills necessary. For whitewater rafting, we go over such things as running and managing of whitewater rafts (we use our own (or borrowed) boats. We do a bit on reading water, safe

Hi Mark My sentiments exactly! The Scouter in question was an older type who was high in the District Committee, and probably hadn't been camping for half a century (an exhaspirated exaggeration of course). The Scouters, parents and Scouts that we taught were grateful for the information, and we passed off the MB anyway as an extra because all the ground was covered. This attitude of doing it the Scout way only is a problem that we have had with all aspects of high adventure, and anything technical that has to do with the outdoors. I have finally just gone to ignoring these guy

Well, same here and from both directions. I had a lot of flak from the BSA side when trying to teach ARC Wilderness First Aid to Scouting Adults and Youth. Things will have to improve with time. Dont stop trying...too much "we're better than them" amongst both sides. JB

What would be a good format? Could we do a separate webpage connected with this server? There are lots of separate links that would be interesting to gather together. I know of one that some Scouters have put together that list camps and other places that Scouts can go for camping. I would like to see a reference listing not only destinations, but resources, for instance I teach whitewater rafting. What about setting up joint 'expeditions.' Cheap places to get gear, teaching techniques, well, one could go on. My problem is that I am an awful web page design

Good for you Bob. This will be great. It is basically what our Troop has been doing for several years. (well we really need to do it to keep up with what we do). I have in the past been berated by scouters for teaching WFA etc rather than adhering to the BSA party line. Maybe this will now change. JB

HI Jeff, Get on www.amazon.com and search under 'wilderness first aid' and all the good stuff comes up. We have used a couple of Forgey's books. One thing that the manuals don't seem to emphasize is 'staying out of trouble' and 'planning what to do if you do get into trouble at any point on the trail'. Here are a few selections copied from Amazon. Wilderness Medical Society Practice Guidelines for Wilderness Emergency Care by William W. , M.D. Forgey (Editor), et al Basic Essentials: Wilderness First Aid, 2nd Edition (Basic Essentials) by Williamw., M.D. For

I have been very impressed with the runs of high adventure activities shown here, which seem so rare with most of BSA. Would anyone be interested in setting up a High Adventure Special Interest network though this website, or another to keep track of what is going on, and promote High Adventure as a more common occurrance in BSA? JB

Yeah, getting through customs is not so easy with minors. When we took our Troop mountaineering expedition to Mexico, each Scout had in his posession his passport, a letter in Spanish stating that he had both parent's permission and to travel with the group and their signatures, the ASM names, and the hotel name and number in Mexico City at which we stayed. The other obvious rules as we were in the City there. Never go out alone, always in a pretty big group, watch out for your friends, never take the "green VW taxis" but only those that the hotel called for us (some kidnappings and ran

This is the course that I help teach. We do this in the summer mainly for climbing company guides. We fit the Scouts in too. http://www.hpoiadventure.com/rescuetraining.html

Eisely is correct. Check it with a lawyer. Here is a medical release we have used, and is one that is similar to our comm'l one. Some of the formatting has been lost her. All the physicians really want to do is to get someones signature before going to work. They will try to call first. YOu can add some language giving a particular person (SM) the authority to seek medical care for the child. I am not sure where we got it, but we once used it. No one got hurt. In the one incident many years ago where I did have to use one we had a handwritten note that worked fine. This one al

I help teach high and low angle rock rescue in the summer, and we often run our Scouts through it just to be thorough, but we have never had to deploy the Scouts for real.