John-in-KC

gwd, You''ve hit a major issue of Scouting these days: Where are folks who will lead the youth? If you talk soccer, football, or baseball, you need a couple of experts, and the other parents can drive/watch/cheer. The "athletic association" takes care of the administration. Scouting almost demands a certain activity level from its families. This was true 40 years ago, I believe it still true today. Yesterday I was talking with a friend; he''s the CM of a startup Pack elsewhere in my city. His bride is the CC. They have active Tiger and Wolf dens, but had to close their Bear and Webelo dens: No one, man or woman, would step up to leadership. So, to those who regret, lament, or decry women serving the program of Scouting, I ask: What have you done to get more men serving your Pack, Troop, or Crew?

Interesting point: Called my Congresscritter''s local office. Shared my frustration. Guess what: His field staff is frustrated at Senator Craig as well. They see that his actions are sucking blood out of their man''s electoral life. He has enough challenges, they don''t need a professional twerp around.

Just a few years ago, recharter was a fairly big "stubby pencil" drill, and took lots of clerical support, from the unit, from the Unit Commissioner (who may or may not have done his/her job), and from the Council professional and clerical staff. So.... the powers to be generally spread out charters, so about 1/12 came in during any one month. Now... thank the Good Lord we have internet recharter. Info goes in once (of course G-I-G-O applies) and then gets maintained. Youth and adults can migrate amongst programs and districts as needed for their best development. AFAIKS, Councils are now tying their recharters to their corporate fiscal year. That certainly is what mine is doing.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

One of our TGs who has the curriculum can answer for sure which is the appropriate training, but I remember that outdoor leader for your particular program level was an expected training before you showed up at WB. That said, I''ve got a few days now of Army fieldcraft. My course director was more than willing to waive the BSA course in lieu of actual practice. John I used to be an Owl C-40-05

Ed, To me it doesn''t matter. I expect my Legislators, at any level, to be men and women of honor. Nothing less will do.

Gonzo said to Barry... >>For anti-uniform folks, try sending your kid to football with his jersey and pads, but a motorcycle helmet and blue jeans instead. See what happens next.

How often does the Troop camp? How heavy (troop trailers and Dutch Ovens) or light (backpacks and backpacking style foods/meals) does the Troop camp? How does the Troop give community service? Is there a Method of Scouting you think needs to be the first priority in your Troops program?

From craig.senate.gov: WASHINGTON, D.C. - Idaho Senator Larry Craig issued the following statement in reaction to today''s ruling by the State of Minnesota District Court Fourth Judicial District allowing the guilty plea to stand: "I am extremely disappointed with the ruling issued today. I am innocent of the charges against me. I continue to work with my legal team to explore my additional legal options. "I will continue to serve Idaho in the United States Senate, and there are several reasons for that. As I continued to work for Idaho over the past three weeks here in the Senate, I have seen that it is possible for me to work here effectively. And they wonder why we are so damn jaded about politicians. It''s obvious; they are WAFFLES: "I''m Guilty, Your Honor." NO "Your Honor, I want to withdraw my plea." "I intend to resign the Senate on September 30." NO "I will continue to serve Idaho in the United States Senate,..." I''m almost ready to follow the public office advice of my physics teacher 30+ years ago: "When in doubt, throw the incumbents out." I want men and women whose word is their bond in the State Legislatures, in the House, and in the Senate. I don''t want waffles.

ScoutNut already got a thread on the recall (with 11 responses) going in the Cub Scout Forum. It includes the letter from the Kahoot Group! http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=168490(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I can answer that last one. There is a specific training course for Roundtable Commissioners and Staff. I do not have the BSA Supply catalog number, but your Scout Shop can get the curriculum. There is a specific trainind record for RT Commish and staff. It''s taught at both Philmont Training Center and at various Commissioner Colleges around the Country. I know the Heart of America Council in Kansas City regularly teaches RT staff. For right or wrong, our DC accepted the Commissioner College completion of the RT curriculum as position specific training for those of us who are RT staffers. I''ve since taken our Associates of Camp Commissioner Service program. BTW, the HOAC college this year will be Nov 17.

I submit this is a valid point: Even TWO activities, at the 9-12 grade levels, will cause conflict. For that matter, even one activity beyond classwork will cause conflict. Yes, I agree on the "too many" syndrome many families used. We chose Scouting for EagleSon early on. He had that, he had youth choir (second grade and up) at church, and he had pre-teen youth at church. EVEN WHEN EagleSon was a Cub, we hit scheduling conflict. Church choirs meet in our neck of the woods on Thursday. Guess what happens every 4th Thursday in our neck of the woods? PACK MEETING. Pre-teen youth church field trips on Saturdays conflicted with campouts when he was 11 and 12. Confirmation, including mandatory retreats, conflicted with Troop campouts when he was 13-15. This past summer was the National Youth Gathering for our denomination in Orlando. It was the same week as HS in-house band camp (a GRADED activity, it was after the "on-curriculum" date for our District). Guess what fell off the charts? It wasn''t the high school band camp. EagleSon was a camp staffer for a second season at one of our Great Boy Scout Reservations. For the second year, to do his job and to meet his own academic enrichment needs, I had to send him provisional with another Troop if he wanted Scout Camp at all (and in Mic-o-Say land, you WANT to go to Scout Camp! ). No. Even one activity will cause families scheduling conflicts. Two guarantees it, and guarantees prioritization of activities: Ours became: 1) School/curricular in nature. 2) God/Church. 3) Scouting. Since OGE has posted since I started writing this, I have to agree with him. As young men and women go through HS, they will have to learn to manage their time. I''d rather have Scouts and Venturers get to the meeting, even in someone elses'' uniform, than have them leave Scouting!

I thought there was something crazy. Of course, I could become as focused here as BrentAllen does about uniforms. Go to the BSA website, and search on leader selection. There is lots of material about selecting quality leaders. It''s pretty consistent: The Chartered Organization Representative HIRES and FIRES Scouters from unit serving posts. The unit can nominate a Scoutmaster. The COR is supposed to search out a Committee chair. Other jobs are searches by the Scoutmaster and the CC, not voting contests. Oh, well. I''m not in your unit, so I''ll put it on that list of things I cannot afford to worry about! Good hunting on this!

Validated by my Council Scout Shop (which is a regional distributor for BSA Supply Group). Local guidance is to either not issue or collect up kits pending additional instructions from the manufacturer.

Gern, I''d simply write it up as additional storage for the Chartered Partner. If the board of properties of your church allocates the space to Scouting, so be it I would ask the Board of Properties not to make a final space allocation decision until after the shed is finished. FWIW, at my church, we had a young man repaint and minor exterior repair the house which serves as our food and clothing pantry for area needy. If you ask the properties folks, there''s probably something unconnected with Scouting on the "to do" list. Then, you can move the shed to a Troop Service Project for the chartered partner.

Mr or Ms Pack212 Scouter, I promise you, when your child gets to High School, if they are active in athletics, band, or theater at all, they will have time conflicts with Scouting. Been there, dealing with it now.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Two of our Eagle Leadership Service Projects involved creating storage outbuildings for our chartered partner, a VFW. Did the Troop benefit? No. Did the VFW get sole benefit? Yes. Did the District Advancement Chair buy in when the SM approached him offline? Certainly. Two of our Eagle Leadership Service Projects involved renovating space (insulate the building, add exterior wall over the insulation, add a dropped ceiling roof, add energy efficient lighting, overlay interior drywall, and repaint the interior) for our Chartered Partner. Did the VFW benefit? Yes. They got additional space for public functions. Did the Troop benefit? Yes. The space was where all youth serving activities of the VFW met (that included a church youth group and a Civil Air Patrol youth squadron). Did the District Advancement Chair buy in when the SM approached him offline? Certainly. Here''s the hint: If the SM thinks a subject may be at the edge of the envelope, he should buy the District Advancement Chair a cup of coffee offline. The DAC can help the Scoutmaster find a way the Scout can legitimately go forward with the project!

If the candidate is qualified, then gender should not be an issue. Please though, do not inflict unqualified folk (regardless of gender) on our Scouts.

Lisa, If you are becoming a UC, ask the ADC running your team, or ask your DC directly. They have obligations to ensure you get trained. FWIW, on the National website, under the Commish (lower right corner), I think the progress card for your knot is dowloadable there. If you are becoming a UC, I know you''ll do it right I''d love to hear your lessons learned; I''m decisively engaged with getting EagleSon out to college right now, next year it will be a good way to give to the community and fill the gap in my time!

If anything, don''t think about the "ticket," let the staff introduce you to the concept...

My thought: Offices, Warrant Offices, now PORs... they''ve always been a part of the Trail to Eagle. From First Class up, you were expected to do something beyond yourself. True in the 60s, true now. The advantage of a 1 year commitment in patrol/Troop positions is stability and added mentorship. The downsides are: - Decreased opportunity for getting that POR time needed. - Risk of relocation in a mobile society (over time, perhaps a quarter of our FC, S, and L Scouts have moved away thanks to Dad or Mom''s job and a relocation). The advantage of a six month commitment is opportunity, and after all, Leadership Development is a Method! The downsides are: - Self-inflicted turnover/change/churn. - Less training/mentoring. - One major project per term. In Gunny''s case, I might consider sliding the cyle back by 4 weeks (October/April). The two major events of the program year (winter fundraiser and camp) still are 1 to a customer, but the SPL has more time to get his legs on the ground.

Joe, I just spun off a thread on troop election cycles to help give you information on what other folk do Reading your follow-up, it sounds like the biggest two risks of leaving the SPL in place are defections in membership, and a blanket party for the SPL. You may have to consider taking action if Scouts decide to transfer from your Troop because of your SPL. It''s hard to recharter a Troop without 5 youth

For those elect PORs on a six month cycle, when do you pick the election month and why? Ours were March and September: Spring election in March got us to and through summer camp with a leadership team. Fall election in September allowed the youth to have fun with service projects and Klondike (we traditionally went to an area charity, "Bikes and Trikes for Tykes" each fall and helped refurbish old bicycles.

OK, speaking as an old soldier, and as a student of military history, General Officers, certainly through World War II, were allowed great deference in the design and implementation of their uniforms. General Patton, through most of his life, had his made by London uniformers ... a shop that had outfitted, Sir William Howe and Cornwallis. For that matter, regimental commanders were allowed certain deference in the construction, fit, and finish of uniform accessories, particularly leather. More than one officer had to re-invest in his Sam Browne Belt, shoes and riding boots because the shade of his leather wasn''t the commands'' standard.

Highcountry, We will answer questions, but as Beavah said in his starting post, it''ll be after we gather data! OK, lots of Council level junior leader training... the week long version, correct? From what you posted, no indication of IN-HOUSE, unit level JLT? Is that correct? Does the Commissioner staff provide you support, or are they pretty much invisible? How often do you (as SM), your CC, and your COR/IH see the DE? Where did you go for summer camping this past summer? Did the youth choose it, was it "we''ve always went there?", or did the adults choose it? Did any part of the Troop go and do something High Adventure, be it council based or National based (Philmont/Sea Base)? Can you describe the environment where the Troop typically does monthly campouts? (As an example, my youth was in LA: We did lots of high desert camping, some beach camps, and some backpacking overnights in the local coastal ranges to prepare for summer backpacking trips). We appreciate your joining in with us on this, highcountry. John

Pete, Here is where you can download what BSA considers "the process": http://www.scouting.org/commissioners/resources/13-500.pdf This is titled "Selecting Cub Scout Leadership"