Jeffrey H

If a Scout decides to turn in their Eagle, I would strongly caution them that their decision should be considered permanent and reversal is unlikely. If the BSA ever becomes the organization they desire for it to become, they may regret their action.

"So if someone wanted to consolidate their knots, can someone who has previously earned the Cubmaster Award remove it and add a device to the Scouter Key, or should they continue to wear the Cubmaster Award?" That depends. The Cubmaster Award is for two years tenure while the Scouter Key is for three years tenure. If you have already served as Cubmaster for three years, then you can consider applying for the Scouter Key.

"...We recognise that each National Scout Organisation within our World Scout Movement is an independent organisation that delivers a programme designed to meet the needs of the communities in the country in which it operates. Those communities will judge the relevance and appropriateness of each organisation's policies by joining or not joining that organisation..." Well said from our British brethren. Now, next item.

"Does anyone simply ask for 3 events and allow for boys to do two one month, but then miss a month? i.e., attend two in June, miss July, but then attend again in August" Our Pack does. If a Cub attends at least 3 events in the Summer, then he is has earned the Summertime Pin. We include Day Camp and Webelos Summer Camp as events.

"Whatever you wish to call 'em, they are profoundly useless" Agree. Not needed. I think the position patches on our uniforms already indicate what division of the BSA we represent. That is good enough. The BSA is hyper-sensitive against wearing "camo" design military colors with the uniform, but they no issue with wearing epaulette/shoulder loops on the shirt that makes it looks military.

If somone asks you for your personal opinion, just tell them how you feel. Be honest. You can do that and still speak well for the BSA organization and your local Troop. Focus your answer on the mission of your Troop and the role it plays in your community and within the BSA organization. Avoid arguments because no one wins and you will waste time and energy. If they need further information, tell them to visit www.scouting.org. Many of us, if not all, belong to organizations where we don't agree with every policy or belief of that organization. We belong to them because we agree with their overall mission. I don't presume to know what your position is on this matter. Whatever your opinion is, my advice is the same.

In our Council, adult award applications are turned in our District Executive. When the applications are approved, our DE will contact us to come pick up the awards at the council office or pick them up at the next Roundtable. As soon as we receive the adult awards, our Pack will present them to the leaders at the next Pack Meeting. Blue and Gold is a good time to present but some of our Pack leaders earned their awards after Blue and Gold. Our philoshophy is to present as quickly as possible. Also, and I agree with shortridge, do not make a big production with the adults. Keep it simple and short - give words of sincere appreciation, a handshake and a smile, and move on.

I'm okay with the change. Cub Scouts currently have the "Core Values" which is a paraphrased version of the Scout Law. It would be better to use the same 12 points of the Scout Law. Cubs could have an awareness of the Scout Law at a level that is appropriate for their age. The Boy Scout Oath is a longer than the Cub Scout Promise but would be fine to use for the Cub program. The boys can be aware of the Oath at a level that is appropriate for their age.

My answer to Parents is "Yes" the uniform is expected to be worn at all Pack and Den Meetings or events, unless we have an event when a Pack T-Shirt/street clothes would be more appropriate. "Expected" is the key word here, but wearing the uniform is not required for membership or participation in the Pack. A boy that does not have a uniform will certainly feel left out if he does not have one. If he has a financial need, we will privately address that so we can get him on the road to feel part of the group.

Thanks for the information Seattle! I did not know about this so it's NEW to me. I'll check it out.

I'm a Cubmaster and paid-up member of our local OA Lodge. However, I choose not wear the patch on my uniform for three reasons: 1) I spend all my scouting time with the Pack and Cub related events and do not currently particpate in any Lodge activities. I prefer to wear insignia that represents where I truly spend my volunteer time. 2) I try to keep "allowed" insignia on my shirt to a minimum because I think the uniform looks better that way (my preference). 3) Our Lodge patch is kinda' ugly. It promptly went into my patch collection box. The above are my preferences. Any Scouter from any BSA division is allowed to wear their OA patch if they are members of their local Lodge.

Cubmasters get trapped too... Perhaps that's another discussion.

In the Spring or earlier, we ask the current DL's if they want to continue into the next year. Most of them continue because they are enjoying the experience. If they do not want to continue or need a break, we begin looking for their replacement. We try to do this early in the year so new leaders can receive some preparation time. Change is inevitable, but I would rather prepare for it in the Spring than have no leader in place when meetings start back in September. Long-term leaders are desirable for the sake of experience and continuity. If they want to continue, more power to them. If they need to step away, that's understandable. A good point was made in the previous post. Often, a DL and an ADL can switch roles for the next year.

I always recommend to new leaders and scouts to avoid badge magic unless they enjoy patches coming off after a few washings and messy residue left behind. The problem is they take my advice but they never get around to sewing the patches on because so many don't know how to sew anymore (either by hand or with a machine). I hand sew all my badges. I learned to sew as a Scout because my Mom said "time to do it yourself." It takes a little time but I get better and faster with every patch. I secure the patch in place with staples or tape before I begin sewing. My preference is to needle the thread through the outer edges of the patch and then through the shirt behind the patch to hide the thread.

You need a sales goal and an incentive for the scouts to reach their goal. Our Pack covers will cover the cost of the pack annual dues if the sales goal is reached. If the sales goal is not reached, then the dues are reduced based on the percentage of the goal sold. In both cases, there is an incentive to sell. The scouts are not too impressed but Mom and Dad love it. The "toys" offered by Trails End are not enough of an incentive to sell especially on the low end of sales. A family can opt out of the fundrasier and simply pay the annual dues. I really prefer this because there will be less popcorn to deal with and distribute when the order comes in.

"So where are their 30 and 40 year old SM's or ASM's" Delayed marriages and childbearing are a big factor. It's possible that the ones that are 30 and 40 have kids that are still too young. I have mentioned on this forum before that Scout Leaders today are older on average than those during the 50's, 60's and 70's. My Dad was 34 in 1973 when he took over as SM for my boyhood Troop. I did not even have my first child until I was 35 and my lastest one at 41. I'm a late-comer as a parent. I became a Cub Leader at 43, Scout Leader at 47. I'm 50 now and serving again with the Pack with my youngest son as Cubmaster. I do think it's great to have younger, much younger leaders than myself to balance out the leadership of a unit.

"I saw one very large council where the adults all looked like the proverbial south american generals." I enjoy wearing the uniform, but that's a look I want to avoid. In my uniform closet I have: One centennial shirt (cotton/poly) One ODL cotton/poly shirt (camping shirt with minimum insignia) One ODL 100% cotton shirt Two ODL uniform pants One ODL uniform shorts One Centennial Zip-Off Uniform Pants (Cotton/Poly) The ODL pants and shorts have terrible fabric and I only wear these when I have to.

"Anyone care to describe how they make watching sports an activity for their Pack or Troop?" Our July summer event is attending and enjoying a pro minor-league baseball game in our area. It's a scout night sleepover event and popular with our Pack. The event is cheap - $5.00 for the game, $10 if sleeping over. I'm not a fan of scheduling too many sports for our Pack outings, but we do include about two a year as part of our program mix and these are done during the late Spring or Summer months.

My son dropped out of Boy Scouts after only 2 years. His major complaint were boring meetings and boys who were ill-prepared for those meetings. Other boys his age dropped out for the same reason. A secondary complaint he had was the same old "car camping" experiences. The boy-led PLC was not adventurous when planning campouts. In his 2 years with the Troop, owning a backpack was not really necessary. While I agree with the boy-led concept, you need adult advisors that are willing to coach the boys to consider more physically challenging outdoor treks and have adults that are willing to accompany the boys on these treks. Boy Scouts is not a Normal Rockwell or Joseph Csatari promotional painting with boys always in perfect uniform for every event. It should be a fun, challenging, and rewarding experience with the emphasis taken off trail-to-Eagle. A Troop program should not be focused on getting the boys to Eagle when only a small fraction of them will be be interested in earning it. Advancement is one of the methods of Scouting and plays an important role, but it should never be done at the expense of the other methods. Most boys join scouts for the anticipated adventure of outdoor challenges, not to attain the rank of Eagle. If expectations are not met, then the boys move on. I spent some time as an adult leader with a Troop that was on the "merit badge mill" and I would rather not experience that again.

"...Think about how most troops spend the majority of their month - in meetings indoors, in church halls and Legion posts, planning and preparing and talking about adventure rather than being adventurous. That's not a way to gin up excitement. It conveys a very plodding, staid image. And it's boring as all get-out..." My son dropped out after only two years. He was ready to drop after one year, but held on thinking that there would be change. His primary complaint was boring Troop meetings. He enjoyed the outings and campouts, but unfortunately, the dominant program of the Troop was the weekly Troop meetings. He had enough and was on to other things that he was interested in. By the way, he was a Star Scout close to getting his Life rank (at 13) but that "carrot" was not enough to keep him in the program. One option was to transfer to another Troop, but the other Troops in our district are not remarkably different from the one he left. Honestly, his Webelos program was more fun and engaging than the Troop. I realize Webelos is an "adult-led" program but the boys learned, went on campouts, went on hikes, did outdoor activities, and the weekly meetings were educational, engaging, and enjoyable. We had no falling membership during those Webelos and Cub years; we had rising membership.

"In other words, they more likely associate you with youth than an old adult. You're too young to fit the stereotypical image of an old grouchy guy with coffee and a sleeping disorder. " That was funny. Keep it coming and I'm probably one of those leaders that falls into that category more than I would like to imagine. There is great benefit having SM's and ASM's in their 20's and I applaud your efforts.

"We had a meeting to have him removed. We had at least 95% want him to be removed and council lied and kept him in." It's unusual and unheard of for a council to get involved at the unit level to approve or disapprove leader positions. The Charter Organization makes the final decision regarding it's unit leaders. A council would only get involved with removing a leader from membership if it was a youth protection violation or failed background check. A Council cannot force it's hand to keep a leader in a position if the Charter Organization does not want that leader. The story is little hard to believe.

There is no "Class A Dress Uniform." There is only the uniform and it's meant to be worn for casual and more formal settings. In my part of the scouting world, it appears that adult leaders make the call when the boys should wear their uniforms, not the boys. I'm not saying this is right, but if that decision really belongs to the boys, then the adults in my district are either ignorant of the rules or they are disregaring them.

"My situation is different,as no one ever filed my Applications and added me to any charter since 2004(the Troop did not,as the felt it was an unnecessary expense,to be "dually-chartered",so they left it to the Cubs to file the charter,as my role at that time was primarily with the Cubs)..." Actually, foul-ups on recharters are not uncommon. The BSA organization is primarily run by volunteers and mistakes and oversights happen all the time. I have to deal with corrections every year on our re-charter I have a Den Leader that is registered as an Assistant Den Leader, but is really a Den Leader. However, for some odd reason, Council keeps getting this wrong. Sometimes, they leave off an adult leader for an unexplained reason. It's a good personal practice to request a copy of your membership card. Based on your side of the story, I'm very sorry that you have been through a negative experience. Did you ever contact the police about the assault/battery? Work of advice if I may - Keep your posts short with the question you want answered and you will get better reponses. Some folks do not bother to respond to extremely long posts. Nothing personal, but your posts are way too long and have too much unnecessary detail.

Your story is very hard to read and follow - Use breaks between your sentences and use paragraphs. I did gather enough of your story to say this: If your story is true and actual abuses took place and laws were broken, a call to local law enforcement should have occurred somewhere during this time. Have you notified the police?