hot_foot_eagle

I've been to Antietam, Harpers Ferry, Gettysburg, and Appomatox, although not with scouts (yet). All are very well worth the visit. It has been my experience that many NPS rangers are scout-friendly and may be able make some special program accomodations if contacted well in advance.

Are your scouts Civil War buffs? If not, some orientation prior to your trip would be time well spent. What the boys get in school is completely inadequate for them to make sense of a battlefield as part of a bigger picture. Any of the better CW movies would illustrate the differences between Napoleonic vs. modern warfare far better than a boring classroom style presentation.

At the Cub Scout level I've had reenactors come to meetings to do living history "orientations" before trips with excellent results, too.

I think the article left some questions unanswered, but the overall tone of the article presented us in a fair light.

From what can I infer from the interview, I'm optomistic about the direction Mr. Mazzuca seems to be headed. The defensive attitude of the BSA (wrt public relations) has not been serving us well.

West Tennessee's Camp Mack Morris is now operates a week-long adventure that incorporates a variety of activities like rafting, canoeing, hiking, and horseback riding.

One of the troops I've worked with goes to Sea Base regularly. They always have a great time, so there's something to be said for that.

I'm intrigued by the Out Island adventure. For those worried about Sea Base trips not being "scouty" enough (a valid point worth considering in my view)this should do the trick.

I recall a write-up in Scouter or Boys Life not too long ago.

"Removing the Scout for playing Laser tag at an event where they were told not to was the thetroops rule NOT the BSA's, and the troop haas the authority to set their membersgip condition as long as they do not conflict with the BSA's."

And it's a good example of why an online library of BSA rules, policies, regulations, and guidelines would be helpful.

Perhaps I was being a bit obtuse, but my point was about the existence of a (hypothetical) regulation and not the punishment in this specific instance.

Perhaps I could have invented a better illustration, but this was the closest at hand.

"Scouts were told they would be removed from the troop if they were caught playing Laser-tag on the outing because it was strictly against the BSA R&R because you were pointing something at someone. hmmm..really? "

Paintball prohibition is a fairly well known policy, however I would argue that removal from the troop for playing seems a bit harsh. Is that sort of action supported by BSA policy? The G2SS is silent on the matter, but a clearinghouse of rules and regs might provide a quick answer.

I thought I'd resurrect this old thread for a progress report.

In the end, my Webelos den split half and half between Troop 1 and Troop 2. My son wanted to join Troop 1 and said so in no uncertain terms.

He just got back from summer camp and had a great time. He was placed in the first year camper program, which he enjoyed. He made several friends outside his Troop (always a good sign) and had a chance to challenge himself with some new activities. Rappelling was his favorite.

The bullying problem seems to have corrected itself somewhat. The new scouts are all 11, but are big enough to take care of themselves and won't put up with bullying. Apparently the offending parties took notice and quit acting up.

Troop 1 is still adult led, with the SPL serving only as the ceremonial head at meetings and the like.

On the other hand, my son's New Scout Patrol is unhappy with their appointed PL and are just short of electing a new leader on their own. I'm not sure the PL had much of a chance since he hasn't been shown what's expected of a PL. Some of the other new boys seem to see the big picture already and are trying to make a change. I think this bodes well for the long term.

Of my own crossovers, attrition has claimed two - one because of family issues, and another who didn't find scouting a good fit. If I were a betting man, I'd say one more is likely to drop out due to lack of interest.

Troop 2 did not go to summer camp this year, but took a cross-country tour to see some midwestern landmarks. By all accounts it sounds like they had an excellent trip.

Troop 2 has had the new scouts backpacking at least once. I've been too busy to keep up with their other activities.

Of my crossovers, all are still in scouting, with varying degrees of participation. Only one was able to make the summer trip, and it sounds like he had a great time. A couple of others would have gone but for schedule conflicts that couldn't be worked out.

Overall I think the boys naturally sorted themselves out where they fit the best, though I think a couple would have been happy in either troop.

Thanks to all who gave advice before. I led the boys through Cubs and it was time to turn them loose. Time will tell who will stay in. Most importantly to me, my son loves Scouting and is having a great time.

Thanks for the suggestions. My wife is always asking what I want for my birthday, etc. Now I have a list!

I have a copy of Hillcourt's "Two Lives. . ." and enjoyed it thoroughly.

I hope I don't steer the discussion too far off course, but does anyone have a "top 10" reading list of books on BSA's history / evolution and related personalities?

It's good to hear that the older scouts are leading the less experienced towards the fun. I'd say that bodes well for the future.

Are the theme days camp-wide, or do they just involve your troop. Either way, it sounds like fun. And don't leave out the Ministry of Silly Walks!

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!

Education and patience seem to go a long way in conquering fears of bugs, snakes, etc. I've watched boys who would almost faint dead away at the sight of a snake touch and even hold a snake after a short educational talk and some reassurance by rangers and wildlife biologists.

Very well stated, Gunny.

We also teach use of the mechanical safety in our council, but that it is not foolproof, and that any gun is to be treated as loaded and ready to fire at all times.

I came away from WB with the conviction that WB is all about the ticket. The beads are just to recognize an individual for completing their first of many tickets.

I'm sure there were others in my course who came away with a different view, but I don't believe I'm alone in thinking that the beads are not what's of value, it's what they represent that means something.

Still working mine. And a good ole bobwhite too!

I, too, have volunteered many times to assist as RO or coach (under supervision of RO). My beef has always been with RO's not being conscious of where barrels are pointing and it doesn't matter if or from whom they have received their certification. If barrels are pointing anywhere other than downrange, there's a safety problem and I'm likely to intervene no matter what capacity I'm operating in on the range - and it has absolutely nothing to do with being prior military.

IMO the BB certificaton training is still a waste of time. Perhaps it's just my council, though. What is the training like in other areas?

There have been plenty of recorded cases of people being killed in basements in tornadoes. If you're unlucky enough to be in the direct path of one, dumb luck and divine intervention may be your only chances for survival.

Looking back, it's easy to say that they should have built a storm shelter, but how many of these boys have storm shelters at home? At school? It looks to me like the camp took the most prudent course of action available, and was just terribly unlucky. It's impossible to protect everyone from everything.

I am proud to see how the scouts pulled together and conducted themselves in the wake of this tragedy. Their words and actions speak volumes about scouting and about these young men.

I believe the GTSS rule is district and council events.

To some extent I agree that the restriction is still overboard. I've assisted on ranges where the "certified" person didn't even know how to load the guns!

I've since taken the BB rangemaster course and feel it was a complete wast of my time. There's nothing there that I couldn't have learned from reading the guidelines. Granted, I've had plenty of shooting experience, a good bit of it taught by Uncle Sam.

That said, few things make me cringe like a poorly run BB gun or archery range. I have no problems taking a range helper aside and counseling him or her, nor do I have a problem grabbing a wandering barrel and pointing it downrange

I'm thinking that the real reason for the restriction is to make sure shooting only takes place where there's extra event insurance.

For the most part I agree with Lisabob's and Kudu's assessment that classroom leadership training is not the most effective tool in our arsenal. Like a SM's minute, a short and sweet observation on what seems to be working and what isn't (and why) is more likely to turn on a light bulb in a scout's mind.

An after-action review would be another approach to teaching the theory using examples fresh in everyone's mind from some activity to reinforce the more abstract concepts.

Is a large bank balance really a problem? A normal operating budget, long term high adventure buildup, equipment replacement fund, and operational reserve have already been cited as possible reasons to have a significant amount of money on hand. Would it be improper to accept a large one-time donation just because your account is "full"? I wouldn't think so.

I agree that the checks to departing scouts raises serious legal and ethical questions, though.

If there are individual scout accounts, my thinking is that there ought to be a written understanding that those funds can be used for X, Y, and Z scouting expenses, and that any remaining funds upon leaving the troop return to the operating budget, a campership fund, or perhaps even a gift to the council camp in honor of the departing scout.

"Being an effective leader has very little to do with being an effective patrol leader. Once the boy turns 18, there's not going to be much demand for one's patrol leader skills. "

Horse hockey.

The skills of an effective patrol leader (in a boy-led troop)are exactly the skills needed to be anything from an infantry platoon leader to a project team leader. What's lacking for most youth are the management skills required by the corporate world.

Anyone can earn an MBA these days. It's the leadership skills that make all the difference.

I'm a starch-and-crease, spit-shine kinda guy and can say with some authority that the present scout uniform does not stay tucked in well at all - with or without operator error. It's in the design and fabric.

The beret is one of the least practical pieces of headgear ever devised, perhaps equalling the similarly iconic and useless garrison cap.

It is, however, infinitely cooler than the garrison cap, and the BSA ball cap - cooler in the elitist sense, not temperature.

The BSA beret in particular was difficult to sculpt to make it wear right, but it could be done.

I rank the beret second only to the campaign cap for scouting panache.

Ditto on file availability by .pdf

Thanks Eamonn for the .pdf!

I showed the brochure at the council center Thursday. Reaction was mixed, but generally enthusiastic. This was apparently the first they had seen it as well, but they were aware of the Aug 1 release date.

It's not exactly what I would have designed, but I like it and really like the move toward more functionality with technical fabrics available.

I'd love to have one in the nylon for backpacking and camping with just the essential patches (a subdued council strip would be cool) and a cotton uniform in "full color" to keep starched and pressed for formal events.

I've only recently taken WB21C, so I don't have enough grasp of the "old" WB to make a valid comparison to the new. I do think Tokala's comments regarding leadership training, team building, and inspiration are spot on. Having been involved in scouting as an adult for over 15 years, I am, however, left with the impression that WB is entry-level training for those who know that they are going to be lifers, as opposed to the capstone of a long scouting career.

My council removed fire buckets from summer camp because they didn't want untrained people fighting fires and because of the mosquito problem caused by standing water. Extinguishers are present in structures, but not in campsites.

Just out of curiosity, did anyone think to call the local fire department or forestry service?