Gonzo1

BrentAllen,

Thanks for the insight.

mmhardy,

The prominent democrats who called Saddam a threat said so DURING THE CLINTON YEARS.

Let's not forget that Bill Clinton could have had Bin Laden, but passed.

Also, Iraq had WMD, we found them, lots of them. I would bet that many are still buried in the desert.

Along with patches is the uniform police favorite of adult boy scout leaders wearing patrol emblems. Exception is woodbadge. I admit the rocking chair is nice, but not authorized. maybe an old goat emblem would be nice too.

I'll try to tone it down.

Brian,

BSA has made many changes over the years. however, change happens slowly.

Part of what makes Boy Scouts fun today is that some of it is different. We even have our own jargon. We don't use an outhouse, we use the latrine or KYBO. We use the Patrol Method not small buzz groups. Personally, I wish we had the green shirt and green pants. The older uniform in the 70's had smaller collars, fit well, didn't become untucked when lifting the arms and the current epaulettes are silly. I prefer patches (patrol and office) with collored backgrouds), but hey, that's just me.

I suggest to really jazz things up, yu join forces with Merlyn_LeRoy and improve the scouting for all movement. They are a group of people dissatisfied with BSA, they formed their own splinter group. They have lots of gays, girls and atheists and I bet the rainbow colors should spice things up for yu.

good luck.

Merlyn,

It's too bad that you and your mom were in cub scouts under false pretenses. She knew what the rules were at the time and apparently chose to not abide by them.

I disagree with absolutely everything you have posted here.

The USA is safer today because of Bush Administration policies, we haven't been attacked, and we have prevented other attacks from happening. It's a shame you like Saddam so much and his terrorist buddies, I suggest you join Saddam. Remember, Saddam supported terrorists. Iraq was a state sponsor of terror.

So, the President is in a classroom, one plane hits a tower, then a second. If he jumped right up and started micro-managing everything, you and your pals) wouldn't be happy with that either, you can't have it both ways. Their is a Chief of Staff, Pentagon and a bunch of people who had to collect information FIRST before any response could ever take place. If President Bush had shot down an airliner, you libs would be up in arms over that too.

Merlyn, I grant you only this: If people who want a scouting program that is inconsistent with the Boy Scouts of America's rules and policies, I suggest that you start (or continue) your own organization. Good luck.

mmhardy, my comments in CAPS

each of your points is wrong and unfounded:

) The invasion of Iraq was based on a reasonable belief that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction that posed a threat to the U.S., a belief supported by available intelligence evidence. - 'Nuf Said NOT ENOUGH SAID, IRAQ HAD WMD, B. CLINTON, T KENNEDY, h CLINTON, J. KERRY, A. GORE AND OTHERS HAVE SAID THAT IRAQ HAD WMD AND SADDAM MUST GO BECAUSE SADDAM AND IRAQ WERE A THREAT TO THE USA.

2)Saddam was involved with bin Laden and al Qaeda in the plotting of 9/11 - Saddam saw al Qaeda as a threat to his dictatorship.

SADDAM SUPPORTED AL-QAIDA TRAINING CAMPS, SO HE MUST NOT HAVE BEEN THREATENED.

3) The U.S. wants democracy in Iraq and the Middle East. - This whole thing has taken a turn for the worst they need a "U.S. Friendly" strongman. THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ WANT DEMOCRACY, THE REGION NEEDS DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM WILL PREVAIL. THE EVERYDAY IRAQI LOVES US, IT'S TOO BAD YOU DON'T ACCESS BETTER NEWS OTHER THAN KATIE COURIC AND MAINSTREAM MEDIA OUTLETS.

4) The United States is waging a war on terror. - We are involved in a secular civil war. WHAT????? WE ARE GUARANTEED FREEDOM OF RELIGION, BUT WE'RE BEING FORCED TO BECOME FREE FROM RELIGION HERE.

5) The Bush administation and the GOP is the party of the religious right - The Evangelicals and other Christian groups are being USED by the Neo Cons. One you have voted your cast aside. RELIGOUS CHRISTIANS TEND TO BE CONSERVATIVE, THEREFORE THEY TEND TO VOTE REPUBLICAN. JEWISH PEOPLE IN USA TEND TO VOTE DEMOCRAT. I THINK UNITARIANS DO AS WELL.

Trevorum,

I haven't seen the Natinal Intel Estimate, but I know that the troops on the ground know more about what's going on over there than either you, mmhardy or Merlyn. I have been there, I know people there now, and I know we are doing the right thing.

Thanks OGE, now it's makes some sense.

Merlyn, Here are some more questions for you:

What is your role in scouting?

Are you registered with BSA or are you a parent?

Are you an atheist?

If you critizise BSA so much, why are you here?

Do you not think we are safer today because of the Bush Doctrine and the war on terror?

Merlyn,

You said:

Gonzo1, since I don't have a Boy Scout handbook and wouldn't be interested in getting one, I have no idea what it would say on page 10. And since you've aligned yourself with the anti-democratic, jingoistic nonsense that "you're either with us or with the terrorists", I don't consider you capable of intelligent debate.

Why don't you have a Boy Scout handbook? You are involved in scouting, aren't you? Unless you're involved only with Tiger Cubs or Girl Scouts you should have a grasp of what Boy Scouts is, Tigers will get more info as they move along.

You'll find on page 10 the requirements to "Describe Teh Scout Badge". Regarding the Eagle and Shield, they represent our nation's freedom and OUR WILLINGNESS TO DEFEND THAT FREEDOM!

For the education of our colleagues, jingoistic is defined as:

jingoism (jngg-zm) Pronunciation Key

n. Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.

Merlyn, I gues I'm guilty as charged, I'm extremely patriotic, I love America and I bleed Red, White and Blue.

I suppose I have a belligerent attitude toward those terrorists who want to kill ALL OF US, including you, that I am willing to defend our great Nation.

In an address to Congress and the nation, President Bush said that there is an Axis of Evil. That includes Iran, Iraq and North Korea. He also said to the world that "You are either with us, or you're with the terrorists" I guess you're one of them.

Merlyn, I suggest you examine your feet and ankles for the presense of shackles. When you realize that you are not being held in this country aginst your will, take your anti-American attitude and leave. I mean get out, we don't need any more like you here.

God Bless America.

It seems that since many troops have problems with equipment that goes missing, the patrol QM may be more valuable than many poster realize, it is a responsible position and saves the troop money if gear is turned in, dried, taken care of properly.

Gonzo

Merlyn,

Why haven't you replied? What have you found on page 10, specifically, what does the Eagle and Shield represent?

Maybe one of our colleagues can help you.

It's OK Merlyn, don't be shy.

BrenAllen makes several good and accurate points.

Another thing about dems,repubs and the media.

o Democrats had power for 40 years and abused it.

o Reuplicans have had power about 10 years and still don't know what to do with it.

o The media seeks out democrats for their interviews instead of the republicans. The republicans have all of the committe chairmanships. The democrats are in the minority and can't DO anything, except maybe whine, complain and filibuster, even when it isn't allowed (it's in the constitution when filibustering is allowed.)

K-60,

By listing all of the uniforms, I think you missed webelos BLUE uniform, specific hat, neckerchief, slide. You listed tan, green which is also correct.

G

OGE,

It's too bad that neither party can fix social security or medicare. Sadly, neither party will. If ss and medicare get fixed, then the other party won't have the issue to argue about and use in campaigns.

But look how quickly some issues get legislation, immigration, detainees, Katrina relief, Tsunami relief, etc.

Gonzo

When I went to woodbadge, we didn't play a game show, but that was in 1994.

I like the game show idea for a presentation.

How about Boy Scout Jeopardy

Alex, I'd like Uniform Standards for $200 please.

DanKroh,

You're missing the point. The teacher or any school has no business teaching homosexuality in the grade school classroom.

Highschool - maybe, college, OK, but NOT GRADE SCHOOL.

Merlyn,

Ah, disagreeing with the president is now treason, eh? That's the refrain of dictators and tyrants.

I'm not saying you're committing treason, I'm asking if you are siding with the terrorist?

There's nothing false, Iraq supported terrorists, so did the taliban.

That doesn't show that Iraq had any involvement with the 9/11 attacks.

Iraq had involvement because Iraq allowed terrorists to train there and Iraq was at the time a state sponsor of terror. Iraq paid death gratuities to family members. Iraq had been called a threat by the likes of Bill Clinton, Kennedy, Kerry, Hilary Clinton, et al, because he was a threat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, I'd bet that the military and the White House have better, more current and accurate intel than Merlyn.

They do. However, if you haven't been paying attention, the intel Bush got did not indicate that Iraq had any connection to the 9/11 attacks.

Iraq supported terrorism and terrorists. Iraq had training camps for terrorists and allowed and encouraged al-qaida to train there. It's not the 9/11 retaliation war, it's the Global War on Terror. It's global because it's global, as in all over the globe. As in, if another country is a threat to (including you Merlyn), that country will be dealt with.

Let me remind you the the United Nations made about 14 resolutions with language that included military options for Iraq to comply with the surrender documents of the 1991 Gulf War, but when Iraq didn't comply, Bush did something about it, because he said he would.

As long as Saddam had WMD, Saddam was a threat.

Which WMDs would those be?

Those would be the WMD's that US soldiers have found in several places around Iraq including more than 500 cannisters of gas and nerve agents. Too bad the American media is on Saddam's side too. Anything that's good for US and the U.S. and Bush is bad for the media and therefore can't be widely reported.

Again, what have you learned on page 10?

Merlyn,

You said:

Gonzo1, none of what you've said addresses the Bush administration's deliberately creating the false impression that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks.

Have you heard of the Bush Doctrine? Your're either with us, or you're with the terrorists. Which are you?

There's nothing false, Iraq supported terrorists, so did the taliban. Saddam paid a death gratuity to surviving family members of meany of the terrorists. That sound like support to me.

Another point, I wonder how many classified briefings you've participated in with the military, I've participated in hundreds. I retried fromthe Army in June. So, I'd bet that the military and the White House have better, nore current and accurate intel than Merlyn.

I'm sure that since Foley resigned, (he did resign didn't he? ) that he will get his day in court and will likely be fined and sent to jail for the bad things he's done. I havnt disputed that, nor have I blamed democrats. I believe that democrats never take the high road though.

How about Ted Kennedy (or ost Kennedy's for that matter), should he be prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter or murder. Too bad he couldn't have been the hero and save MaryJo.

As long as Saddam had WMD, Saddam was a threat. Thankfully, he is no longer a threat. In the Global War on Terror, threats to the United States will be dealt with. I suppose you would rather wait to be attacked again and then blame Bush for not preventeing it. The President has said that during the Global War on Terror it would take a long time and would be fought in many parts of the globe. I hope you're thankful that we're taking the fight over there and not getting attacked again. We probably will someday, but I hope not. But when we do, I'm sure you'll blame Bush, won't you.

What I can't figure out is why you Saddam apologists like Saddam so much and wish for him to be in power.

By the way, what did you learn on Page 10?

God Bless America.

As a veteran also, I sometimes cringe at boy led and adult led flag ceremonies.

I've never seen patrol flags dip to the Nation Ensign, but that doesn't mean it can't. As long as everyone is the same, I think you'll be OK.

Maybe a 90 degree salute is impractical, but I'm sure you've seen some military flag ceremonies where the other flags are dipped about 15 degrees. That would be much eaier for youth.

One thing you might consider is drafting a regulation, and then pass it up the "chain of command" for a ticket item, but that's just a suggestion.

Uh, wait a minute!

Merlyn,

you said:

Let's see, the Republican administration deliberately misleading the American public on Iraq's involvement in the 9/11 attacks would be a start.

Let's see, well before we were attacked, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, Hilary Clinton and a bunch of other Democrats said that Saddam Hussein was a threat to the security of the United States. They all said Saddam harbored and supported terrorism and had weapons of mass destruction (WMD), and that he used gas and nerve agents ON HIS OWN PEOPLE!

In case you're unaware, the United States has liberated Iraq from the dictatorship of Saddam. There will not be anymore genocide in Iraq, no more rape rooms, no more public quartering of people in the middle of crowded soccer fields. No more torturing Iraqi Olympic athletes for not winning. No more will Saddam be a threat to us, that includes you.

So exactly where were you on September 11, 2001?

Don't you want to CONTINUE to be free?

I suppose it's as good a time as any for me to ask this question? Would you please turn in your Boy Scout Handbook to page 10 and then describe the Scout Badge, specifically the part about the Eagle and Shield? After you have done so, ask yourself if you are really doing what is says or not.

Gonzo1

Now it seems we're getting into the weeds about court rulings and not about the parents and the teachers.

Just because a court makes a ruling, doesn't necessarily mean it's correct. In the past, courts have upheld discrimination, is that correct? They have upheld abortion, is that correct? They have even upheld (or refused to hear) cases involving the BSA, is that correct? I'll bet that for every cases any of us finds with one opinion, we could find another with a diferring opinion., could't we? I believe a Supreme Court Justice some time ago was a Klan member, so IS or WAS Senator Byrd or SC. Hmm, that's not right either, is it? I've hear his colleagues in the Senate call him "sheets".

I don't personally agree with many of the court's decisions, like abortion, affirmitive action, immigration, granting of 'rights' to enemy combatants, other issues involving BSA. However, I'll support the decision. So, just because a COURT says that getting married is a civil right, I think it's more of a civil opportunity. I think that anyone can sitting where they want to on a bus is a civil right, or to eat at the lunch counter, or get a same job as you or me, these example are civil rights. Marriage is between one man and one woman, how hard is this to grasp? If gays want to live together, let them. In Loving vs. Virginia, the Equal Protection of the Constitution allows anyone who gets married in one state to be married in another, just like getting a driver's license, oops, another license and more permission). We have the right to free speech, right? but we can't yell FIRE!!! in a crowded theater, why should our speech of the word fire be oppresesed? If someone chooses to protest an abortion clinic, why must their "free speech" only take place 50 or 100 feet away?

It's not the court's job to grant rights to anybody, it's the U.S. Constitution. Remember the 3 branches of government and the function. The judicial branch interprets laws, not make them.

Gays are trying to change the laws, good for them for trying. When their issue in here Georgia has been defeated. The people speak at the ballot box, majority said no.

If you can read these threads, thank a teacher, if you can read the in English, thank a veteran.

Register to vote, and then vote.

Another clarification:

(Packsaddle's comments and mine crossed.)

I really am a nice guy and I do not ever intend to offend or insult anyone. I do not intend to go toe-to-toe with anyone on these posts, it kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

I think some studies can be (and are) skewed, that's all.

If I have offended anyone, please accept my apology.

G

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Allow me to clarify.

Teacher read book about gay parents to the class, parents are outraged. They should be, it shouldn't be part of the curriculum, especially in grade school.

Teacher tells the class he's gay. Parents are upset, they should be, the teacher's 'orientation' has NOTHING to do with teaching the students.

Teachers should stick to teaching their assigned subjects. School boards should keep the contraversial BS out of the class. Parents should be involved in the classroom.

It's not a slippery slope, just teach and go home.

I don't care if someone is gay, I really don't. The revelation of it in class is inappropriate.

Gays do not belong in BSA. See other threads.

G

How about Jump the Shot?

20' of rope with a weight on the end like a couple of rolled up towels or something. Scouts circle up and a scouts swings the weighted rope around so that the 'shot' flies just above the floor. As the shot approaches, scouts jump to avoid the shot. The scout who get tangled up get to swing the rope.

DanKroh,

I looked up Loving vs Virginia, seems your judge in 1967 was a bigot and ruled that God did ot intend for racial mixing. In the ruling, the issuing official had to be certain that applicants were of the same race. Says nothing about licnsure. Here's a link to the ruling:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/loving.html

While pursuit of happiness may include marriage, you still need permission via a license. You and I both have the "right" to practice, but we need 'permission' via a license. If we commit malpractice, we really lose the priviledge - the license (permission) is taken away.

Skinner v Oklahoma has to do with "Oklahoma deprives certain individuals of a right which is basic to the perpetuation of a race-the right to have offspring" not marriage. Also, the in question here is Oklahoma's Habitual Criminal Sterilization Act. Okl.St.Ann. Tit. 57, 171, et seq.; L.1935, p. 94 et seq. Yeah, that's good.

Seem pretty clearly stated, even to this non-lawyer.

I think you missed it.

... heard of *any* heterosexual couple that had to actually get "permission" to get married?

Every time someone gets married, they need a license.

Gonzo, if you don't want them in "our" society, where exactly are they supposed to go?

I don't care where they are, just quit ramming down our throats. Homosexualtiy doesn't have to be on every TV show, movie etc. We don't need two moomy books, Daddy's roomate, etc.

I'm glad you're a Dr too. I don't meaan to sound cruel, but that must be a confusing field. Further comments witheld.

CalicoPenn,

Gay's are intolerant of heterosexuals?

It would be too broad of a statement to say ALL gays are intolerant of heterosexuals. Gays tend to flaunt it with their rainbows, car decals, pride parades, rainbow flags etc as if to say "Hey!, look at me, I'm gay, I'm in your neighborhood and you have to like me...'

Should gays demand about stopping Cinderella, et al? because heterosexualtiy is a MYTH?

Duh, take a look at the plumbing, we are made for heterosexualtiy.

Bigotry toward gays? I could really care less about a person's private life. Don't come into my house, I won't go in yours. On the other hand, why must gays keep ramming down our throats about being gay? What would happen if we had Straight Day Parade downtown. We know what hapens when there is White Power parades. (I'm not advocating white power parades, I'm using the example) Bigots stink no matter what the bigotry is.

I'm already on the school council (not elected official, business owner advisor) and I visit my kids teachers. I do like a commissioner and pop in sometimes.

I live in the Bible Belt, we don't teach that here. We have enough trouble with stickers in text books abot evolution.

What's next, a protest against Multiplication, Division, Spelling or Grammar because a parent thinks these are the devil's work?

What? Are you nuts?

You can also save the floor by putting the ground cloth under the tent (too obvious) and also one inside the tent.

G

Then, when you think you're finally finished, rehearse your presentation. Then rehearse it again about 5-10 times so that you own the material. Present it to your spouse, a couple of patrol members, your coach counsellor (that's what we called them) and THEN, make your presentations public. Rehearsing allows you to refine the presentation, field questions and be ready with answers.

Good luck.

G