Gonzo1

Our ceremony was quiet and simple. We had it at the place where we did our patrol meetings between weekends. We invited a few of the staff and some local scouters in the district. We had someone make some remarks, exchanged a few jokes, sang Gilwell, etc.

We had some cake and punch and it was very nice.

Our ceremony was quiet and simple. We had it at the place where we did our patrol eetings between weekends. We invited a few of the staff and some local scouters in the district. We had someone make some remarks, exchanged a few jokes, sang Gilwell.

We had some cake and punch and it was very nice.

BadenP

Please check my other posts in this thread. I never said to kick him out. I said that he may not qualify for memberhsip. This might not be an issue if he weren't 17 and close to Eagle. The Scout said that he is agnostic, not the BOR. I suggested another meeting with the BOR and a minister. If he doesn't believe (now all you buddhists, sit this one out, we've been over it), he can't be in BSA, PERIOD. It's not my rule, it's BSA's rule. He must decide and declare if he believes in God. Personally, I could care less (as it pertains to scouting) which God he believes in. It cold be a "higher power", "Love", "Light", something. Here's my take on the "Big Bang Theory": God said it and BANG!!! It happened.

I've also said that no one should try to pigeon hole this lad into a religion so he can become an Eagle Scout.

You can't put a square peg into a round hole.

Brent,

I agree. There are women scouters who can run circles around some men. I also know male scoutmasters with beads who ain't got a clue.

Eamonn,

Sorry to hear about the real estate deal gone bad.

However, I must disagree, a little. I feel almost bad disagreeing with a guy who took his woodbadge training at the Happy Land.

I agree that scouting is a game with a purpose. However, trying to teach the patrol method to den leaders may not make sense, trying to have ALL the groups work TOGETHER may not make sense either. Tiger cubs can't do camp-o-rees, Venturers may not want to do crafts. Wolves can't do an actual regatta.

I agree, the game part is very important and that we need people who can pass on the skills. I think trying to do Wood Badge to first or second year Cub leaders is rediculous. I know a scoutmaster who has beads, but no clue. Maybe open it up to adult Boy Scout leaders in their 3rd year or service instead the old 10 year requirement.

Perhaps there should be more emphasis on advanced SKILLS training, and less management. Maybe the skills training could be offered more frequently so more could attend. May offer an camp-o-ree for adults and have scouts judge.

Let's emphasize the program specific training with a little flexibility. If a Tiger den leader is going to be a wolf or bear den leader, encourage that person to attend BALOO. If a webelos den leader feels he or she will move up to Boy Scouts, encourage them to attend boy scout leader outdoor skills training and so on.

They did have Cub Leader Wood Badge, right?

I think Wood Badge should be the pinnacle of Scout Leader training, something a leader should look forward to, not something they get in the firt year or two.

I don't think that any group or program is better than any other. They are just different, aimed at different people.

Maybe Venturers and Boy Scouts could do camp-o-rees. Maybe Roundtables should be all inclusive and then have breakout sessions for each program.

All the best, (no offense intended).

Gonzo

Kudu,

You said: Women (and men) who are not the outdoors type should not be Scouters or the trainers of Scouters.

I disagree. What about women who are great administrators? couldn't they be Unit Commissioners? How about District Committee?

I'm not saying they should be, but they could be.

Gonzo

Just as there has always been women in the military, there have been women in scouting.

Brent,

I believe the North Florida Council had a female WB course director in '95, but I'm not sure. I'm sure there are others. I read a post where a woman was a WB SPL, c'mon!

Sorry GWD, it seems that some people are better suited for one thing or another. It's true, women may be more patient with the little cubs, men may be more suited to be SM's, I don't know you personally, you seem to make sense in these forums, I hope you're delivering the promise and da program. I didn't mean (in the other thread) to imply that women COULDN'T be scoutmasters, I think men may be better at it, but not the only person for the job. I don't mean to offend, I hope you understand.

I know some women who can run circles around men when it comes to some basic scout skills. I'm a man and I'm the one who does most of the sewing in my home, particularly on the machine. I also run the table saw.

Gonzo1

Thank you to all of you for your responses and suggestions.

I'll try some and let you know.

Thanks,

Gonzo

emb021

I think you are indeed splitting hairs in this context, but I'll clarify AGAIN.

Where I said "Women are probably best at the cub level, troop commitee and some sort of venture participation. Sorry, I don't know alot about venture, I know it's co-ed)." Is because I know that venture PATROLS are in boy scout troops and that venturing crews are separately charterd organizations that are co-ed and have co-ed adult advisors. I didn't mean to confues anyone about anything. I know that boys in venturing crews who are also boy scout can earn awards for both, but girls can only earn awards in venturing. No offense intended.

emb021

"Then you don't know anything about venture, because its not co-ed. That's because Venture is a program within Boy Scout Troops. Its the Venture Patrol, for older boys.

Gonzo:

I think you're splitting hairs over semantics, of course venture patrols are boy scout patrols and venture crews are co-ed. I know they must have co-ed adult presence. I've never been in one, so I don't know crew operations, advancement (specific to venture crew) etc."

I am not splitting hairs about semantics. You are confusing the names of two different programs with different (but similiar) names.

Venture and Venturing are not interchangable terms.

Venture is a boy scout program. (the venture patrol)

VenturING is a separate program for youth 14-21. There is NO SUCH THING as a "Venture Crew". It is a Venturing Crew.

This confusing of terms causes those of us in Venturing a lot of problems. We have people thinking that a 'Venture patrol' is just "venturing in a troop", and leads to nonsense like Venture Patrol members wearing the forest green Venturing uniform and thinking they can earn Venturing awards.

I've heard that only the SM or ASM can sign off on rank advancement items except BOR. I've also heard that Scouts above First Class can sign off for ranks below First Class except SM Conference and BOR. So, what's the real answer?

Thanks you in advance.

Gonzo1(This message has been edited by Gonzo1)

Please help, I'd like a new stave. I have several of the stock BSA $3 hiking staves. Over the years I seen many home made staves. I could select a branch from the several trees on my property like oak and maple. When is the best time to take the bark off? Or, is it better to leave the bark on? Should I stain it or not? What about polyurethane or varnish?

Your comments are appreciated.

Thanks,

Gonzo1

OGE

You said... Sorry Gonzo, the only good thing about the 70's and scouting was the red beret otherwise it marked the end of scouting as an Outdoor program.

Gotta disagree here. I joined scouting in the early 70's and we had a very active outdoor program. Besides, I never like the red beret. I don't care much for today's hat with the big red panel either.

emb021

you said: Then you don't know anything about venture, because its not co-ed. That's because Venture is a program within Boy Scout Troops. Its the Venture Patrol, for older boys.

I think you're splitting hairs over semantics, of course venture patrols are boy scout patrols and venture crews are co-ed. I know they must have co-ed adult presence. I've never been in one, so I don't know crew operations, advancement (specific to venture crew) etc.

msnowman,

I'm glad (I hope) you weren't offended. It's not my objective to offend anyone, not even brianbuf. There are many great and meaningful ways women can serve BSA programs. Here's an example or two. When I attended WB in 1994, we had 2 women in our patrol. 1 had a family emergency and couldn't finish, could have happend to anyone. The other held her own, a nice lady, school teacher. When we took our 2 or 3 mile 'backpacking' trip away from the campsite, about a half mile into it, she changed her socks and tied them to her pack. I asked her what she was doing and she said that her brother told her to tie her socks to the outside of her back, it would make her 'look credible' and look like she knew what she was doing (that of course meant she didn't). I laughed. Another lady in a different patrol didn't what which end of an axe to use to split a log and make a tent peg, BTW, some of the men didn't have a clue either.......... On the other hand, our past district committee chairman was a woman.Very knowledgable about BSA. I once had a DE who was a woman, very knowledge about rules and regulations, not the outdoors.

At the risk of taking some arrows from some of our female colleagues, I must agree with some of the posters here like Kudu. While women have been scoutmasters since 1988, that doesn't necessarily make it right. Women are probably best at the cub level, troop commitee and some sort of venture participation. Sorry, I don't know alot about venture, I know it's co-ed).

I also realize that in this day and age, there are many songle moms who want to participate with their kids. Troop committee is a great way. Sometimes, boys need to be with men, and girls need to be with women.

Ladies, how would you feel if a bunch of men wanted to be girl scout troop leaders? Or attend all the girl scout leader training. Would you really send your daughters on a campout with a bunch of men?

I think Wood Badge probably has been watered down. When I attended, it was for advanced scoutmaster (adult leader) training. The pinnacle of adult BSA training should (IMO) be something that one looks forward to, not take in your first or second year of scouting. Get some experience FIRST, have an idea and a clue. Some of the BSA program has been watered down. Merit badge requirements changing, rank requirements changing.

I wish we could return to the BSA of the 1970's. The old uniforms were better, the scouts did a ton of things outdoors, it was just plain FUN.

For my Taj Mahal, I fold and gently roll it up and put it in a large rubber maid container. Ground cloth oon top, then tent, then rain fly.

Gonzo

fgoodwin,

Goretex outerwear? For sissies

No, Goretex is great to stop the wind, but doesn't keep you warm, jacket liner will.

Thermarest pads? Wimps

I think you'll be warmer on the ground because the air gets colder than the ground

Under Armor? For weaklings!

I don't know, never tried it. Polypropylene garments are great, and warm

Internal frame packs? Wusses

I prefer external frame

GPS? Fuggedaboudit

I suppose that's "progress"

How in the world did we ever get away from sleeping on the ground in a floorless pup-tent?

All in the name of progress.

Its been all downhill ever since

I think more things are going down hill.

fgoodwin,

C'mon, heating a tent?

Electric space heaters? Are you for real?

Evmori has a great suggestion with the foam pad and a space blanket.

I recommend sleeping in as few clothes as possible because of the perspiration and condensation which make you colder if you sleep in clothes.

You might also try having your rain poncho handy on cold nights. If you really feel cold, drape your poncho over your sleeping bag, it will help contain some of your body heat and also keep you warm.

You said: The bottom line is if you are going to use a heater in your tent you should be extremely careful.

The bottom line really is no heaters or flames in tents. Here's a suggestion to get warm and stay warm in cold weather camping: Wear a coat once you're outside.

nldscout, (and the rest of you) you should know better than to use a lantern in a tent. You wouldn't let a scout light a lantern in a tent, would you?

(This message has been edited by Gonzo1)

Eagle Pete,

You'll also get to sing and have fun ----- uh, that is unless you're a stick-in-the-mud poster and think that singing is childish.

have fun.

Beavah,

Before I strike a tent, I open all the zippers on the nylon tents with plastic zippers, like my Eureka.

Then as I collapse the tent and fold and roll it. The chance of damaging a zipper is much less. After I dry the tent, I fold it for storage and re-roll and put it in the sack.

To keep da bugs out when pitching the tent, I lay it out and zip the door BEFORE raising any poles. Now Beavah, you will be Black Fly free and have zippers intact.

I'm not saying to do it my way, I know what works for me.

I hope this helps,

Gonzo1

My old trop still does a pancake breakfast first Saturday in December. 4 Saturdays fo ticket sales for all you can eat. Donated pancake mix, donated sausage links, younger scouts as serve, bus tables, clean as needed, etc. Older scouts and adults cook. Very smooth operation, only fund raiser for unit to speak of.

Nearby unit does a chicken BBQ, donated or low cost chicken, same for side dishes, $6.00 per late, big bucks.

Our pack does popcorn. My son sold $2,250, if my kid can, your can too. We had 4 boys over $1,000.

Trevorum,

Don't forget your 2 deep leadership.

G

Eamonn,

I tok the course in Feb and March of 1994. Got beads about Dec, '94.

North Florida Council.

There wasn't a lot of sittin around time, indeed. We had the 3 weekend course. A couple of patrol meetings back in the district. I realize EVERY course is a little different.

I'm in Northeast Georgia Council now. A friend who is attending now told me that they are using the tents already in place from summer camp. We had to pitch the our tents they issued to us and I think we were all missing a pole.

Doesn't matter. It really isn't worth squabbling over whether you sew or pin. I was a great experience, I'll never forget it. It made me feel like I was a scout again.

Gonzo

Adults are not supposed to wear patrol emblems. However, because of the patrol method used during WB, emblems are (or have been used). When I went to WB, I met my coach/consellor who gave me an eagle patch and said "Welcome, you're now in the eagle patrol, this is for you to sew on." I thanked him and sat under the same tree as he did. Then he said: "you can start sewing anytime you're ready".

I've heard that WB for 21st Century, students use safety pins for patrol emblems and badge of office.

I guess every course is a little different.

wmjivey,

You can always show your Eagle pride with ball caps, t-shirts, belt buckles, ring, etc.

Gonzo

SR-59

Eagle Patrol also

OGE,

Of course I mentioned it. He's aware, the parents are aware, I don't recall why she isn't in it. I'll ask again tomorrow. Besides, she brings a friend when her brother has webelos/cub activities, so they would get 2 for 1.

SA,

I think you summarized it well.

Scoutldr, I'm not trying to hijack your thread.

I can clearly understand when someone has to be someplace else. The dad of the other WDL had a stroke, he left Saturday night also.

Perhaps as an organization, we can hold Cub Camping 101 for cub parents.

Any of you WB students need a ticket item? Maybe you'd like to consider putting together Cub Camping 101/

Thanks,

Packsaddle,

I brought it up as a hypothetical situation ONLY.

If Chris or Terry start to develop, you could ask the parents about it. You could wait and see. If William starts to 'develop', he just might be overweight or have some other problem which me may grow out of.

The bottom line is this:

If you are a BOY, not homosexual and believe in God, meet other requirements for memberhsip, it's A OK. If not, like if someone proclaims that they are agnostic, you can't be in BSA.

I didn't make the rules, BSA made the rules.

I know a scouter with 58 years of scouting service, has a 14 year old granddaughter and hopes that BSA will someday admit girls, because she would make a fine scout. I reminded him that she can't pass the physical exam, she's a girl.