GaHillBilly

My personal reasons for opposing laser tag and paintball are not the ones behind the G2SS. Rather, I dislike both games because I think they are hurtful to our troop. First, they are expensive, and leave the Scouts with nothing to show for the expense -- no skills, no equipment, nothing but an empty wallet. Given that our troop's opportunity to grow requires us to reach out to single parent homes (a concept VERY close to B-P's ideas!), and given that BSA National has decided that uniform and book sales should be an important corporate revenue center, the $$$'s of Scouting are a major issu

Well, GW, I stand corrected! Upon receiving your more definite information, it appears I was wrong. 'Prejudicial interpretation' does not offer reliable results. At best, it offers results that are usually correct. But, in my judgment, the primary problem with prejudice is that people tend to cling to their prejudicial determined conclusions after they've been determined to be incorrect. And, it may well be that with time, and a larger sample, I'll discover that my prejudicial judgment concerning knot-wearers is also incorrect. Hopefully, I'll then be willing to correct that ju

Interesting . . . very interesting. BW, I continue to be amazed by the way you mix real and bogus knowledge. I would have thought someone as literate as you would have actually looked up the definition of "prejudice", before accusing me of not knowing it. Even if you didn't care about anything else, I would have guessed you'd check first just to avoid the egg on your face! Crow, for supper, anyone? GW, In my original post, I didn't say that the choice I made was between someone with knots vs. someone without. I said the choice was between someone with a chestful of k

"A lot of people follow a carrot on a stick, but that doesn't make the carrot a good leader." Hadn't heard that one before . . . it sure does apply to a LOT of situations near (and not so dear) to me. I think that sentence will be showing up around our troop, a LOT! :0) GaHillBilly

No, BW, my observations are not PRE-judiced . . . they are observations. But, the work "prejudice" has acquired an unreasoned pejorative connotation. Actually, prejudice is essential human behavior. When you see a bear in the woods, you (I assume) endeavor to back away most carefully, in order to avoid a confrontation. You do so because you've prejudicial decided that the bear in front of you might, in the manner of some black bears, decide that you or your Scouts look like lunch, even though you know that many bears are entirely innocent of such dietary tendencies! When y

BW, I wasn't -- and did not -- question the legitimacy of their knots. I'm sure they met the requirements, which for the many of the knots means having worked with various levels of Cub Scouts for a long time. But, the guys I've seen with really successful troops behind them, and the guys I've seen with significant outdoor skills didn't wear lots of knots. Your milage may vary: it's entirely possible that in your area the truly great SM's wear lots of knots, and salivate over the various Silver knots. It may even be that many good SM's here do so as well, since I don't even be

Thanks for all the responses so far. Barry, your response is particularly pertinent. I believe I need to remind myself again and again not to 'tilt at windmills' (a la Don Quixote), but to focus on what can be done, and avoid letting myself become frustrated at the other stuff. Also . . . just to give a better perspective on things, the ex-Eagle leader and I are now co-operating pretty successfully (or at least it seems to me!). My point in mentioning him was simply because his remark was such a clear example of the "Scouting = my experience of it" equation, not that he's remained stuck t

As I've thought, read about, and experienced Scouting since my son and I entered a year and a half ago, I've concluded that there seem to be three distinct concepts of Scouting: 1. Scouting as Baden-Powell conceived and described it; 2. Scouting as BSA describes it now (in literature both old and new); 3. Scouting as Scouters themselves have experienced it, as Scouts, and as participants in the local district and council. I recently concluded that concept #3 dominates at least in my district. I've found that I'm far more versed in Scout literature than any of the local Scou

As some one new to Scouting, my view of Scouting knots has been shaped by my PERSONAL & LOCAL --- and I understand that others may not share this --- experience, which has been that there is a direct correlation between the number of knots, and the uselessness of the leader. It works the other way, too. The guys I've found most helpful & knowledgeable had worn but mostly bare uniform shirts. I'm now eligible for at least one, and maybe two knots, as well as some other patches. But, I'm leaving them off. At least in my local area, they seem to signify ineffectiveness. Ga

Wow, thanks! All in all, I find myself fascinated by the design of Scouting as it is in BSA. The explanation I've given to others new to Scouting is that it's designed like pie with a missing wedge AND a small circle in the center. The idea is that the CO will supply the wedge and center. In reality, most CO's don't (outside the LDS troops) and the wedge and center are filled with what's sometimes been called "American Civic Religion". This worked, sorta, in the past, when ACR was a sort of rah-rah nationalistic ethical system loosely based on orthodox Christianity, but sharing ortho

All in all, Kudu, a fascinating post! Your points about Scouting seem very much different than the prevailing views here, AND what I find in the current Scout literature I have. Actually, the position you seem to be arguing is one I personally find more attractive and plausible than the prevailing one. The fact that you address B-P's philosophy is also atypical -- I'd begun to think I was the only one who found the roots of his thinking fascinating, as the prevailing use of B-P's writings seems to be as a mine from which to extract useful 'proof-texts'. But, I hope your underst

BIG Hm...mmnh! So . . . if I had a popular, but skill-less senior Scout who is destined to be PL of a new patrol being formed, and I parked his patrol several hundred feet away from adult resources so that his patrol mates had to rely on his (and their) lack of skills . . . there might be some whole new attitudes toward learning skills and toward him, come Monday night. Is that an anticipated and desired result? I'm not sure that the parents of those boys would view the difficulties their sons would experience that weekend as an acceptable outcome, however. GaHillBilly

Well, color me frustrated. I think what I need more than anything else here is humility. The problem is too complex for me to 'figure out' with any certainty. My way MIGHT be better, but I don't know that. And if I get frustrated because I can't do that I think best, and then expose those feelings, I'm just going to make things worse. I'm gonna think some more, and pray some more. God knows what's best, but I don't, and I need to remember that a lot more than I do. However, just to stir the pot . . . I discovered that one of the Scouts who wants to be Troop Guide or Troop Instr

I want to thank those who've posted helpful thoughts, observations, or recommendations. I've reread them several times, as I've worked on preparing for this weeks troop meeting. A couple of quick comments. - Neither I, nor the SM, are totally giving up on the older guys. In fact, one of the older guys will likely be a part of the 'focus' patrol. But, working with the others will require some movement on their part. It's hard for me to even imagine one of the boys (or his parents) acknowledging any problem. In the case of another, his parent is running interference -- I am almost cert

ScoutNut, it's not entirely obvious from my initial post, but the older Scouts don't lack skills, because they've lost or forgotten them. They lack skills because they never had them in the first place! The causes are the usual ones: merit badge mills, (ie, colleges); an out of council camp that is apparently worst camp in the US, for generating bogus rank advancement and merit badges; a somewhat indecisive SM dealing with a group of Scouter parents intent on their sons gaining Eagle, no matter how much fudging was required, etc. You write, "To me, it sounds like you are ready and w

"What it sounds like, to me, is a big Roses, Thorns, and Buds session ... amongst the youth. I think there are some issues and challenges, let's get them into the open." Getting in the open, is unfortunately the very thing I'm trying to avoid. There are at least two sets of parents of senior Scouts who are in serious denial about their child's skill sets and performance. Getting it in the open would start a war almost as quickly as challenging the wanna-be Eagle. GaHillBilly

My son's troop has problems with skills. (Don't they all?) As best I can tell, the problems are typical in this Council, but I'm too new to Scouting to have any idea whether they are typical nationwide. Anyhow, just a few examples: + Eagle candidate, with Swimming MB who can't pass 1st class swim test currently, and who is terrified of water over his head. + Same guy couldn't tie a square knot at camp, and butchered a 60' rope of mine, because he didn't know how to tie a sheep shank or a clove hitch on a bight. + Recently, none of the Scouts, 1st class or higher, could orient a

John-in-KC wrote: "Our challenge is too many new arrivals show up on our doorsteps with little training and less patience. They think the program should look like X, when the literature says ABC." As a new arrival (which 18 mos into Scouting, I guess I still am), I've resembled that remark, at least to some degree. But, I know that the problem for me and for at least some other "new arrivals" is the converse of what you stated. Instead of expecting the program to look like X, I expected it to look like ABC, as described in Scout literature, but found it actually looked like X. My ex

Sorry about posting this in the wrong place -- I didn't even know this sub-section existed. I was interested to hear the story of the Silva US vs Silva Sweden -- I'd gathered that something like that must have happened, but I didn't know what. FWIW though, Johnson Outdoors WILL fulfill the lifetime warranty obligations on old Silva compasses. Now . . . if I can just find that old Silva Ranger with the sticking aluminum bezel! GaHillBilly

I'm working on the Hiking MB with a group of boys in my son's troop, and had an interesting and disturbing experience yesterday. Like many troops, ours is not well off, and so Walmart camping equipment is often a Godsend. Some of the equipment is not bad, and some is pretty good. Of course some of it sucks, but that's never been a problem since Walmart has always been willing to take it back. However yesterday, while trying to teach the boys how to orient their maps, and take bearings off the map for various legs of their hikes, I encountered a substantial discrepancy between the compass

Wow. I voted for the man twice, but I didn't realize anyone was still "for" him. I'm with Beavah -- he's been a HUGE disappointment. I don't blame him so much for the Iraq/WMD debacle -- after all, Saddam had even fooled his own top generals on that issue -- as I do for keeping "Dumsfield" in office long after every noncom and private in uniform realized he was an arrogant high-IQ idiot. Unfortunately, I'm afraid Obama will be worse. Has anyone else noticed that he has the MOST liberal voting record, by several metrics, of any current US senator? Once he leaves office, I'm afraid Fed

A couple of notes: 1. "more honest" doesn't equal "honest", just like "lighter" doesn't equal "white". As noted there are plenty of dishonest conservatives. And, personally, I don't believe anyone is completely honest. The title would have about the same meaning if it read, "conservatives are crooks less often than liberals". But, please note the article was specifically NOT about politicians themselves. I'm not sure if it's even possible to be really honest AND be elected to a major political position in the USA. 2. Yes *dude*, I read the article. Did you? The arti

"Conservatives more honest than liberals" It's not my title, but I just couldn't resist. Apparently, a series of surveys have found that political liberals are considerably more likely to lie, cheat, or steal than conservatives. Here's the article: http://www.examiner.com/a-1419425~Peter_Schweizer__Conservatives_more_honest_than_liberals_.html OR http://tinyurl.com/4dqvj7 GaHillBilly

"As for popcorn . . . I've sold boatloads of the stuff with my son because people realize that the money is going to Scouting." One guy locally told me that he tells people the popcorn is 90% donation, 10% popcorn. That's trustworthy; that's what we'll do in the future no matter what we're told to do, or what literature we're given to use. But, telling people that the popcorn is a good value -- which in the normal use of English means that the popcorn is a good value -- is just good ol' American (dishonest) salesmanship. And that's NOT trustworthy. As for leadership, I won't tr

" >>I do not believe in any god, deity, higher power, whatever. And when I say "to do my duty to god" or "a scout is reverent" or "one nation, under god", I do not mean any of it.