fotoscout

Does anyone have an suggestions for someone attending the Jamboree as a Visitor?

Thanks,

foto

It seems to be identical with the Webelos Woods that we run as a district.

The really good thing about it is that the activity stations can be truly age appropriate, without the need to provide "one size fits all" activities, or even activities that are modified for each age group.

The other good thing is that this activity provides and opportunity for an overnighter to the boys who come from packs/dens that don't camp.

The Labor Dept. says it is Rocket Science. We cannot hire anyone under 14 and we cannot allow anyone under 14 to "work" at camp. Been there, done that and we got slammed. Cub Scouts max out at 10 if your older than that, you are working. Not my rules.

If we could do that, the problem would simply go away.

I think that most of us who have expierance with kids and convertalble pants know that one of leg pieces always gets lost before the kid outgrows the pants.

So what might turn out to be a great idea for the adults could in fact end up costing the parents a lot of extra money.

I wonder what the evaluation cycle is for SEs, and who actually does it.?

We had an SE who was canned some two years ago, but like jkhny, it was not until after the damage was done. Although Im all for giving people enough room to do their job, it seems that these guys have either too much freedom or too few controls.

All of our Camp employees have to be 14 years old. For the first few years in BS program the boys can not work as Den Chiefs because of this age restriction.

Eamonn, I think you are either throughly confused or don't quite understand the question. We have a golden opportunity to develop a new revenue stream.

The current Day Camp program is a solid, BSA Accredited Cub Scout Day. It is no more, or no less, a Day Care Program than is the CS Day Camp run by your Council. The next logical step for these boys would be to enroll them as provisional campers for the full 7 weeks (less their Troop Summer Camp time) of our BS Summer Camp Program.

Unfortunately that doesn't sit well with most of the parents, and with the boys. They are not inclined yet to spend the whole summer away from home living in a tent, even if it is at Scout Camp. Sure they will do a week with their Troop, and maybe a second or even third week at camp. But they do need to be cared for and engaged for the remainder of the summer. How can we capitalize on it?

Has anyone ever done a BS Day Camp Program? I would think that at a minimum, the boys would be required to show a commitment to attend Summer camp with their troop, before being eligible for the BS Day Camp Program.

Yes, this is an "Out of the Box" thought. To many of you it might sound like heresy. But, we would be foolish not to pursue the potential that is before us.

The Day program is offered to Webelos I. The question comes about because they are no longer eliable for the Day Camp Program after they cross from CS to BS at the end of their Webelos II year.

How do we capitalize on the need for summer camp, without pushing these families into signing up for 7 weeks of BS Camp?

Bob I'll spell it out for you:

Old Truths:

Presidents and Priests - fine upstanding pillars of the community

Gays - Sexual deviants who pray on young boys in the community.

New Truths:

Presidents and Priests - Sexual deviants, some of whom pray on young boys in the community

Gays - wired differently, most often fine upstanding pillars of the community. No threat to the youth of the communty.

By my own admission there is some wiggle room here, and I do take some literary license. But it's clear that there is no longer any real reason to stereotype either of these groups as a more preferential role model.

Bob,

No particular reason, just current events that came to mind as I was typing.

But you are right.... for both groups the thought could be projected back in time to the late 1700's or even much earlier than that.

The same information age that brought us new truths about priests and presidents, also brought us new truths about gays. In both cases our old beliefs were broken and a new understanding emerged.(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

Sorry Ed I have to do this.... Would you call Catholic Priests a good roll model? Would you call a BSA executive from the National office a good role model? Would you call a Rock Star a good role model?

How about a philandering ex President of the United States, would you call him a good role model?

Stereotyping is a thing of the past, our culture, our society, and our way of life have moved past that era. We know longer trust the clergy simply because they wear the robes, and we no longer distrust those who are different than we simply because of their difference.

It's time to move on.

No surprise here, I would stay.

To prevent, or at least stem the tide, BSA would have to allow CO's to choose their own membership criteria with respect to god & gays. they could opt for one set of rules or the other.

SP, your opening thoughts on why you would stay were excellent !!! Thank you.

Ok since were really answering the question

I suspect that many of you live in communities that a gay person would not come within 1000 miles of. I dont. Although I dont live in the big city we do have a large number of gays in our community. They live the scout law with much more regularity than does the heterosexual community. Contrary to what many of you may think, they do not have Leprosy.

Although it would mean greater vigilance on my part, I think I would choose the gay, trained leaders. There is no doubt in my mind that these folks would run an outstanding program.

In all we do today with our children, we exercise greater vigilance at all times. So what's the difference whether Im watching out for what youll do to my son vs. what someone else will to my son. I still have to watch!

I'll answer when I stop laughing!

I'd bet a months pay that both conditions would never exist in the same troop.

Our Council/Camp has developed a terrific 8 week Cub Scout Day Camp program located at our Scout Camp. We now have many CSs that choose to spend the summer (or a great part of it) in our Day Camp Program. Of course one of the things that drove this program is the need for affordable/quality Day Camp Programs in our area. Many families have now come to rely on our Day Camp program to keep their sons active and safe during the summer months.

Unfortunately (maybe fortunately) we have created our own little problem. As these boys age out of the CS program what do we do with them for the next couple of years until they are old enough to be staffers, or, until Mom is ok with the concept of having sonny away at camp all summer.

Has anyone had this problem or does anyone have some suggestions?

Hi Judy,

Before recommending an out-of-council camp to your new troop, you should look to your in-Council Camp first. Baiting Hollow Scout Camp is the equal of any camp in the system, and far superior to many. Furthermore, the Scouts at Baiting Hollow are the Scouts that your son has, and will, grow up with should he choose to stay in the program and be involved and active with OA, District and Council activities.

Try to remember that this is YOUR camp and it is the camp that your son will remember as HIS camp. The local camp is the place where a boy has the real opportunity to contribute. It is not just a place where he spent a week or two during the summer. From service projects, to staffing opportunities, this is the camp location that your son should associate with Scouting as he matures. This is the camp location where his greatest potential for personal growth exists, and, over time, the location where lifelong friendships will be forged.

Too often, leaders are too eager to go out of council. We all have an obligation to support our local camps. Without our support the local camps will simply go away. The local camp supports Cub Scout events, Camporees, Venturing Activities, Training, OA activities, various other District and Council activities, as well as a robust summer program of Cub Scout Camps, Boy Scout Camp and Family Camps. Not to mention the year round camping opportunities that Baiting Hollow offers to the Council. This year Baiting Hollow was also selected for the Regional OA Conclave.

This is not to say that there is no merit in doing your summer camp at an out-of-council camp. In fact there is great appeal and much to be gained by going to other camps. But you and your troop should, as should all troops, recognize where their home is and return to the local camp at least every two or three years.

Yes, in some cases there are programmatic issues that keep Scouts and Scouters away from their local camps, but not in this case! Your local camp, Baiting Hollow Scout Camp, is a great camp with much to offer!!

Someone will always end up exhausted after one of these things. The conscientious leader will be concerned about everything; there is simply no way around it. Delegate may in fact be an oversimplification. In order to delegate, you must have people who are willing to take on added responsibilities. Sometimes thats not too easy.

Next time try this: make up sheets for the different things that you need done. For instance: Flag Ceremonies, morning activities, afternoon activities, Campfire, Scouts Own. paperwork & permits & etc Dont let your leaders and parents leave until someone has signed up for every item. Push it to its end point, Folks, I cant and wont do all this work by myself anymore. Its your choice I get some help or we dont go! Trust me, you will get help.

As for food, I strongly believe that food on Pack trips should be done at the Den Level, unless you have a group of parents that are really into mass feedings. Cooking at the den level is not overwhelming and tends to foster a great sense of camaraderie within the den. Much more so, than if you do this at the pack level.

Remember, you have den leaders, you dont have to entertain their kids while on a camping trip. Leave that responsibility to them. Your flag ceremonies, campfire, and Scouts Own will be done as a Pack. Aside from that you only need one or two additional activities for the entire group. Let the den leaders spend time with their boys.

Interestingly, you refer to a controlling DL, but there is nothing written about your program. Often it takes a strong person to change a program into something that truly resembles a Cub Scout program.

Without more detail and a real timeline, it is difficult to determine whats really going on in your Pack. I would remind you that a DL does not run the Pack. Packs are run by the CC and CM, and maybe some input from the COR.

I am aware of no situations where BSA intentionally, knowingly or willfully relocated professionals, or even volunteers, in an effort to cover up any wrong doing. We should be careful in making analogies to the Catholic Church. Unlike the Catholic Church, BSA appears to have done all the right things.

This is a singular incident, and the organization handled it promptly and decisively.

Don't anyone be naive to think that this episode won't cost BSA any money. BSA will have to represent itself in court, and, an episode like this is likely to affect donations for the short term.

Keep good notes!

Bob, I probably generalize with the "we" word too often. In this instance, I was referring to those who guide and direct the program, from the top, down to the Commissioners.

BW, although your plan doesn't call specifically for more power to be "given" to the CO's, it would in effect do just that. You are in effect making a call to wake up the sleeping giant before we have the resources to control it.

A quiet reminder may do the job just as well as a National program change in Commissioner Service, and without the potential fallout.

Torveaux, I think we need to be careful here that no one gets the wrong impression. It is not anticipated nor expected that any Den Leader or Adult leader of BSA pay, out of pocket, for the operations of his/her unit, or den beyond the equal share being shouldered by other parents in that unit or den.

Sure, some (most) of us, spend some money out of pocket, but it is not expected and should not be expected by anyone! On the contrary, parents (and the boys) should expect to pay for the Scouting program, especially at the den level. Unfortunately, in todays world it has become increasingly difficult to get the boys to drop their few dollars in the bucket each week, so many accommodations have been made. Den leaders must have some capital to work with. I also fear for the precedent that this practice sets up......Johnny's Den doesn't pay dues and look at all the fun stuff they do, why do we have to pay dues, it isn't fair!

Barring hardships, I happen to believe that freeloaders on the roster are a very big deal. It is quite simply unfair to have them draining resources from the unit. Also remember that often these are people who just dont want to be bothered with another fundraiser. They might have all the money in the world but unless you ask, you'll never get a red cent from them.

Ive gone back to this thread a dozen times. Its intriguing because the kid seems to be drawn to the program.

Here at the end of March I see no way that this boy could legitimately earn the AOL, and I agree with those that say he should go directly to the troop.

There is a great lesson here about communicating, listening, and directing our children. ScoutMomAng did the all the right things. To her credit, she even gave the parent a chance to sign up at Re-charter time.

I cant help but think that someone wasnt listening and it wasnt ScoutMomAng.

Financing your operation is never "fun". It is necessary and hopefully not something that you lose sleep over. Cub Scout packs too often follow the previous regimes program without taking a long hard look at the unit finances. I will assume that you have some idea of what it costs to run your pack for a year.

The first thing you need to ask yourself is; what should the Pack pay for, and what should the dens be paying for? Every unit has different answers. The answer is critical. Spend some time discussing this with your committee and DL's, as it will govern everything that comes next.

Next, ask the question; what do we want to be the units primary source of income; Family's, Charter Organization, or Fundraising. Critical here is the question of, how do you handle family's that do no Fundraising?

My unit collects $8.00 per month from each boy. We ask for it as a single payment early in the year. The pack gets half the money, and the Dens get half the money. The treasurer holds all the money. Tigers also pay $20.80 registration & BL. No one else pays for registration or BL. We also do the popcorn fundraiser each year.

DL's can use the money at their discretion, and request reimbursement from the Treasurer. Pack money goes toward re-registration's, awards, pack night supplies, Pinewood Derby Costs and a small amount of supplemental funding to B&G. Trips, campouts, day camp, district and Council events are paid by the family's. For us this works.

Another unit I'm familiar with, funds it's entire operation on Fundraisers. It works for them, but they are constantly involved in the details of distributing product and collecting money. They also have many family's that just say, 'Tell me what I owe and don't bother me with another fundraiser'. This unit has a plan for that option.

If you're going to fund your operation with fundraisers, it is important that you have a plan for dealing with the people who do not contribute to the effort. In one case I know of, a DL refuses to do any Fundraising and would not ask the parents for some money in lieu of Fundraising. The committee accepted it for a time. But now the committee has had enough, and is in the process of going around the DL to get to the parents. I suspect the DL didn't want to be bothered and refused to pass the Fundraising requests to the parents.

To make along story short, it's not pretty. Lets face it; barring a real hardship, each family should pay its own way through scouting.

Im sure youd like someone to give you an answer, but every unit is different. My suggestion is that you put everything on the table and discuss it. Dont be too afraid to charge the parents. Too many people do fundraisers simply because they are afraid to ask for money from the parents. Also, consider this.......How much time do you want your Scouts and Parents to consume with fundraisers instead of doing Scout activities.

Pack finances should be openly discussed with anyone who is interested. Use that interest to Gage your approach.