fotoscout

By-Laws are usually expected to be VERY ridge and inflexible. Their intent is to firmly establish rules and policies by which the troop or pack will operate. They can cover advancement, attendance, conduct, uniforms, fund-raising, leader positions, leader tenure, and many more things. By-Laws are by definition, used to remove any and all flexibility or discretionary decision making that a unit may have. Mind you I did not call the by-laws "guidelines". They are not guidelines, they are "black and white" rules, without any flexibility.

Most units that have by-laws, have them as the result of something bad that occurred in the units history. So as the result of the "bad" episode, the committee wrote and adopted by-laws. Every unit I know of that has by-laws, hates them.

My feeling is that the BSA policies offer more than enough guidance with respect to operating a unit. The BSA policies allow us to deal with special situations, by-laws don't.

I think you should give her a chance. In a different role she might simply be a different person, and actually help make your job easier.

If it's been two years and he hasn't been given his Tenderfoot Badge because of a pullup it's time to look for a new Troop!!!!!

Here is my two cents.....I don't think it's disrespectful. Only the manner in which the question was stated is disrespectful.

Some people just don't want to be part of an event that a beading ceremony can become. Maybe Brian is really the shy and retiring type! If the ticket is complete, and the beads have been earned, the method of receiving them is really up to the recipient.

As for the 300 hours and $5000, I don't get it! If he feels that he's bought his bead, then he simply hasn't earned them and shouldn't get them!

I often think that when we do these kinds of things we need to keep the family in mind. Remember that Scouting was only a part of the deceased life. There may be other children in the family that are not in Scouting, think of their feelings when the wake or service is overwhelmed by Scouts and Scouter's. Then there is the extended family, most likely they knew the deceased as Joe or Mike, not as Mr. Scouter.

Ask the family for permission, and do only what you've discussed with them.

Some time ago I went to a Scouter's funeral as a part of the "Scout Contingent" from our district. He was a UC. Between his Packs, Troops, and the Council contingent we overwhelmed the funeral home. I can only think how unimportant all the other guests felt. There were no seats, and no room to move. Most of us got up and moved to the outside of the room, but still some remained seated.......and the family & friends had to stand. I felt that we intruded on a very personal event.

So whatever you do, please remember that most of the Scouts or Scouter's that attend will do so out of obligation and respect, but they will not have had the relationship with the deceased that his family and longtime friends have had.

It appears that my information is correct. Over the weekend one of our Senior DE's confirmed it.

So if you're a fledgling pack, or a troop of 100 boys, or even a Council, watch out...big brother is now watching you! The story is that they are trolling to make an example of someone.

I can't imagine how this could be good for anyone. More lead time for anything we do, more cost for anything we print or have made. This takes advantage of the two things we all have in excess supply; time and money! Yeah!

My source is one of our DE's. Unfortunately his comments were supported by a second DE.

I'm all for protecting intellectual property rights, and trademark symbols. But this, because they have imposed it at the Council level, seems to be obstructive, and abusive.

If local councils can't freely use the logo, then who is the logo there for? Think about it for a minute, aside from uniforms, training materials, and CS/BS handbooks where do you see the logo. The only ones who see it on the uniform, on training material and in the handbooks are registered members. This is one heck of a way to enhance program recognition!!!!!!! Why don't they just stop using the name Boy Scouts of America, and call it something...anything else, and have that title be different from town to town across America?

If they found someone misusing the trademark symbol of BSA then they should go after them. But to lock it up in safe, as if it were a sacred item.....then charge the member Councils for its use is absolutely absurd.

I hope the story I got was misrepresented, and like some here have said, that there is more to this story.

Tonight I was told that the use of the BSA trademark fleur-d-lis (the BSA Logo) will be VERY ridgedly controlled and restricted by National beginning immediately. Not only will the restrictions be applied to local units, but also to Councils use of the logo. For instance, camp literature will have to be approved by National, AND we will have to pay a licensing fee, AND we will have to pay royalties for each copy we print.

Everything will have to be approved by National with a 90 days allowed for the approval process before it can go to the printer. Printing can only be done by the National Supply Division or their licensee. Again, licensing fees and royalties will have to paid to National on every piece of literature, clothing, and anything else that we might want to put the logo on.

I am sure that there is some exaggeration in the report that I got, but I would also think that is a great deal of truth in .

Does anyone know anything about this? Does anyone know what may have spawned this level of micro management.

Sometimes it's just easier to contact the DE via the council office. In my district our DC travels a great deal, and is sometimes difficult to get in touch with. The DE can provide a service by acting as the District's secretary and clearing house and this can work in everyone best interrest.

You are correct that Commissioners are not solely the DE's responsibility, but he can certainly be helpful in this area.

I never liked this comparison.

First you're comparing a youth's ability to get a task done vs. an adult's ability to get something done.

Next there are a whole set of rules that make an eagle project fairly complicated and involved. Not to mention the various adults that have to put their two cents into the project. Not the case with a WB ticket, it's just you and your ticket councilor.

Then there is the money thing. Although WB tickets shouldn't cost much money, no one really cares if you spend your life savings doing the ticket. Mom and Dad can't buy your Eagle Project, and you can't go soliciting money for the project.

For the most part Eagle projects across the country all approach the same level of performance and expectation. Not so with WB tickets. Tickets vary dramatically from person to person, and the expectations vary just a dramatically from ticket councilor to ticket councilor.

So it's just not a fair comparison. Ask any adult Eagle who has completed his WB ticket. He'll probably tell you that he worked much harder on his eagle project.

Contact the Ranger, or office staff at Camp Alpine. I am sure that they will be able to help you.

Scoutnut,

VERY NICE Posting.

Your comments exactly match a conversation I had with someone from National last month.

To everyone else; you might want to print a copy of Scoutnut's post, forget about everything you see in print....Her comments are accurate and up to date.

I might add that National now requires a Baloo trained person on any Cub Scout/Webelos overnighter. Even if you're going to a Battleship or a Museum! If you are going to be staying overnight, you have to have the Baloo trained person.

There are 5 achievements in Tigers. Ask the parents to pick an achievement and run with it. The parent would be responsible for; (1) the achievement portion of the den meeting; and (2)the "Go See It" that is associated with the achievement. The "Family" portion of the achievement is spelled out in the book, so no one has to lead it.

As the Den Leader you should be maintaining the structure and "feel" of your meeting. You should do a proper opening and closing (the parents won't know what that should look like....you will) You should tell the parents how much time they have and help them understand the level of difficulty you want the kids exposed to. You should keep the meeting on track, and be ready to step in if a parent falters.

You may want to have a parent plan the gathering activity, but be careful....this is not the activity for the meeting, it is only a gathering activity.

The fun thing about Tigers is that you can entertain them with a blank piece of paper....Good Luck.

Seems to me that this boy is trying to get a rise out of the system, and you're not too quick to play his game........

Sounds like this is good kid and you, and your fellow leaders don't want to do anything bad to him. I would consult the committee, and have the issue moved to council. Let the boy play his game with some adults that he is less comfortable with.

He can dig his own grave, and you won't have to be a part of it.

Fall Camporee implies Boy Scouts. You are asking about Cub Scouts. Cubs should not be camping at a Boy Scout Camporee. Webelos on the other hand may under some circumstances camp at a Camporee.

Having said that, the upper 40's is not really very cold. Unless the boy is sleeping in a Mickey Mouse fleece, he should be warm in any other reasonable sleeping bag. Yes he may have to put on some sweats.

Councils make their own "winter camping' rules for Cubs and Webelos. Check with your council office for the official ruling in your area.

A few years ago, Baiting Hollow Scout Camp on Long Island ran a SCUBA program as a Specialty Camp within the framework of the summer camp program. It was subsequently discontinued due to lack of interest. However, the Camp Director may run the program for you if you have enough Scouts interested in it. BHSC has a lake and access to the Long Island Sound for open water dives.

"The best camp we've been to in 6 or 7 years!" was the comment of a very experienced Scouter who brought his out of council troop to BHSC this year. Its a good operation, you're boys will definitely have a great time there.

I will PM you the Camp Directors email address. Here is the link to their website http://www.baitinghollowscoutcamp.org/

Good Luck.

It's about time the national media posted some good coverage. Check out this link

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/23/scouts.rescue.ap/index.html

foto

Oh Boy, this sounds like a bad idea. Has anyone asked the troop if they'll have these boys?

There is a lot of maturing that goes on during 5th grade, you would be turning these boys into a superden, not a patrol. Then there is the issue of the boys (from other packs) who do cross over in March or April. How are you going to manage that one? From the get-go their peers will be ahead of them, 10 1/2 years old and a first class scout....eagle at 12?

And with all due respect, if these boys are ready for the AOL in August, they got a free ride. What do you think will happen when they move to the troop and are truly expected to complete and satisfy their advancement requirements? This needs to be about what's best for the boys, not what's easiest for the Pack leadership.

Oh Boy, this sounds like a bad idea. Has anyone asked the troop if they'll have these boys?

There is a lot of maturing that goes on during 5th grade, you would be turning these boys into a superden, not a patrol. Then there is the issue of the boys (from other packs) who do cross over in March or April. How are you going to manage that one? From the get-go their peers will be ahead of them, 10 1/2 years old and a first class scout....eagle at 12?

And with all due respect, if these boys are ready for the AOL in August, they got a free ride. What do you think will happen when they move to the troop and are truly expected to complete and satisfy their advancement requirements? This needs to be about what's best for the boys, not what's easiest for the Pack leadership.

Venividi, part of the answer lies in Gern's comments. I don't believe that camp is about spending time in the kitchen.

As for sitting around the table, I've yet to see a patrol, especially a patrol of young Scouts, get it all together in a fashion that allows them to sit down together at the same time and enjoy a hot meal. If your scouts can get that done 18 or so times during summer camp my hats off to you!

Cooking is fundamental and a lifelong skill. Dining Halls are compatible with lifestyles that focus on TV dinners. Learning to add a little onion to soup can make life so much more flavorful. The price is learning to cook

Fuzzy, you may have missed much of the dynamic that is going on in the Dining Hall. Like many other camps, our camp serves family style. For many of the boys this is a rare experience for them to sit around a table and be required to exhibit some manners, be a waiter, and clean up after the meal. For too many families today it's McDonalds, and meals on the run. The boys don't really get to expierance the family table.

Many of the boys come to camp with absolutely no ability to conduct themselves at a group table. At the end of the week they have certainly learned about sharing a table with others. From manners to table talk, these boys gain much from the experience.

I can see where Patrol Cooking would bind the patrols together....but I would prefer to see that happen during the year. Camp should be about having a good time, not washing pots and pans. foto

So here is another curveball......

What about the boys who attend a Council run Winter Camp (6 nights)or Spring Camp (6 nights) program? How about boys who attend Provisional Summmer Camp AND spend a week with their troop at Summer Camp?

These boys get a lot of camping expierance, and because a lot of it is without their regular leaders, they tend to be more dependent on their own skills and knowledge. Do you give them any credit for this time?

foto

Working at camp is more than just a summer job. Don't fall into the trap of comparing it to life at McDonalds. Staffing a BSA Summer Camp is about hard work, a sense of purpose and camaraderie.

It doesn't matter what camp you're at, the boys & girls work hard. Very hard and with very long hours. In the end this may turn out the be the most meaningful experience of his young life. For most it is! That's why they come back year after year. Sure some hate it and never look back, but not everyone is cut out for a whole summer at camp.

Another thought about the long hours. Busy hands make busy minds, or if you prefer...... they don't have much time to get into trouble!

Give him a chance to enjoy the whole experience.

I have always thought that the perceived elitism/arrogance stems from the people who are jealous of those that have made the commitment to be more active and more conscientious in their Scouting activities.

As I look around our council, it is mostly the WB'ers that are doing things and the few others who are very active, all ultimately take WB at some time. The ones who are crying about elitism/arrogance always seem to be the "hangers on" that never really make a commitment.

So when someone comments about the WB'ers click(sp) going on over in the corner of room, I would tell them .....sure, what do expect? They spend a lot of time together doing this scouting stuff.