fotoscout

We have many non WBers that are trainers and they do a great job. The people who do WB probably have more time available to things like training. So, yes you might see more WB trained Scouters as trainers, but we certainly have no culture of preventing those who have not done WB from becoming trainers. As I look at our training events, from Commissioner College, BS Leader Training, PowWow, WLOT, BALOO, and on and on most of our trainers are not WBers.

Dan, your problems may stem from a clic like environment rather than issues with the BSA training programs.

One of the great challenges to BSA training is vast range of abilitys that new leaders come into the program with. We come from all walks of life. Some are very educated and worldly with a robust portfolio of life experience. Others have less education, and a life style that has kept them very much unaware of the world around them. Then there are those who have experience as a child in organizations like BSA while others do not. Some are open minded, and some are stubborn. Some are eager to implement the program as taught; some just never get it. Some are team players and interact well with other adults, some are just the opposite. Some are so inhibited that they wont ever go to training.

My point here is that training will never be one size fits all. Some will say that its too shallow, some will say thats its too intense.

I have been asked to present BCS 104 at an upcoming Commissioner training event. I have the basic material and outline. I've looked at the information on Netcommish.com. and will probably use the presentation from there.

Does anyone have anything that might add to the presentation? Anecdotes, stories, or even a unique PowerPoint presentation.

Thanks for the help.

foto

First, expecting the COR to be the critical path to a successful program is, well, ridiculous. The COR is not responsible for making the program run, and manufacturing a good meeting week after week. We the unit leaders are, and it is we the unit leaders that training focuses on.

As for the newbies vs. the old-timers; there is some merit in this concept. There is lot of wisdom and experience that spews from some of the old-timers. It you listen to them and apply some filters they can help a great deal. I would miss them at training. But yes, sometimes they are a bit out of step. The newbie would of course have to be not too new, and would have to have enough experience to answer the unrelated questions that always come up.

I admit that I never required the boys to bring their books to meeting as a Tiger, Wolf or Bear. Now as Webelos they need to bring the books. Beginning in September we started to talk about bringing the book, along with the T word, Transition. This month I started a sign-in log with an added column for bringing the book to meetings. So far about 70% of the boys are bringing their books on a regular basis.

More than learning the material in the book, this process of getting the book signed by a leader is part of the transitional process. Every week I talk about transition and the expectations that will be made of them when they move to the Troop.

Personally I think the Webelos book and program are over the top. The requirements are getting in the way of having fun while preparing for the transition.

Ed,

While I think your option is very doable. I also think that there is a need to get people back into the classroom once a year for follow up and reinforcement. The current system does do some of that.(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

I believe that the greatest problem with our training, especially the first few CS training modules, is that the sessions are not framed with the right perspective for the attendees. Let me explain.....

Case One Its 8:00am on a Saturday morning or 7:30pm after a long day. We arrive at class ready to learn about the CS program. The instructor gets up, welcomes everyone and immediately asks everyone to stand up and sing The Grand old Duke of York. I am already insulted, and angry that Im wasting my time singing songs. The perspective and perception of training is already wrong. Pack night for adults.

Case Two - Its 8:00am on a Saturday morning or 7:30pm after a long day. We arrive at class ready to learn about the CS program. The instructor gets up, welcomes everyone followed by a lecture on the method of training used by BSA. First, a discussion about how our training sessions are in part intended to model the behaviors and activities BSA wants you do with the kids. Second, an overview of the CS training program. Each step, each course, and the benefit of taking each course should be outlined. Third, a repeat of the first item, modeling, modeling, modeling! Now the instructor asks everyone to stand up and sing The Grand Old Duke of York. Now I know why Im singing, and I am not so pissed off.

Time and again I hear the comment, Training was hokey and childish. Then I ask, Do you understand why they were doing that stuff? The answer is usually No, I guess they think its fun. And I launch into my modeling lecture. Without any doubt, the reason I dont see people retuning to training is because the felt it was childish, and not informative enough. Yes, they always come away with something, but not enough to bring them back for the next class.

Hi Laurie,

One of the things we lack at a Council and District level is people who have a recent attachment to, and current knowledge of the Cub Scout program. Additionally, our Council and District committees (except training) rarely have anyone in attendance to champion the Cub Scout needs.

I am sure you know where this is going. Either as a UC, or a committee member, your love of the CS program would be an asset to your Council or District. Its a way to stay involved and help other CSs and CS Leaders without a commitment to the demands of being a Den Leader. You'd still be able to help out with the troop, and provide some much needed support in the Cub Scout arena.

Just my two cents.

I would agree. Often we try to get as much mileage out of each activity as we can. The books are pretty specific when the achievement requires that you do something for a second time. So following that logic, and assuming that national wants to sell as many of these patches as they can, I would allow activities to be used more than once.

Me thinks it might be worthwhile to go back and ponder the results. It appears that the individual grading has a significant range for the same type of service from the CO or COR. Also, I think some used 1 as the highest, and some used 10 as the highest.

But all in all, I think this very small sample tells a huge story. The concept of the CO in todays world is flawed. They want to be nice and be perceived as contributing to the community (?), while at the same time, have nothing (or very little) do with their commitment. Remember, in theory, it should be the CO engaging the Unit not the other way around. The CO created the Unit; the Unit did not create the CO. Of course the extent to which the CO would engage the unit could also be matter of contention.

Yes, it's terrific!

It really is as simple as the training indicates.

I agree, a budget is the only way to go.

But the dreaded budget meeting doesnt have to be a nightmare with 6-12 or more volunteers sitting around a table till all hours of the night bickering over small amounts of money.

If your unit does the same things year in and year out, the budget should be easy! You dont need to retrace proven and existing budget plans. Pick only the new elements of your budget and discuss them separately. Then add them to your plan and vote on the whole plan.

Of course this doesnt mean that the existing and proven budget plans should only reside in someones head. It all needs to be on paper and in the open, but you dont need to spend endless hours retracing your path.

Id like to be a TV Weatherman.

I know of no other job where you can be so wrong so often, and continue to get paid for it. As my friends are fond of hearing me say.... I want that job!

Ive always had a fascination with Photography. Through the years Ive often toyed with the idea of doing it as full time job. But Ive been very fortunate because as a (very) part timer and amateur I been invited to photograph some great people including a sitting First Lady, and some Hollywood types.

So my hobby continues to be a hobby and I continue to get enjoyment from it. I wonder if that would be true if it became a full time job?

Semper,

Please check your private email.

foto

Chamber of Commerce

CO 2 - because they sign the charter

COR - Neg. 1, he also happens to be our no show Unit Commissioner.

I did know the answer, but I wanted to make the point.

Let me answer the original question, what do we do to engage our CO? Our CO is the local Chamber of Commerce. We provide a Color Guard for them when asked, we do a fall harvest event for them and the larger community, we take care of a couple of small memorial parks for them, they participate at our Pinewood Derby and B&G as judges, and thats pretty much it. What we do, or how much we do, has no bearing on their involvement in the pack.

I believe that the concept of the Charter Organizations organization is flawed in todays world. No one needs to step forward to provide a youth program for todays boys. From Church youth groups, to 4H, to Jaycees, to the plethora of sports groups there, are plenty of outlets for todays boys. If run well they all have the potential to provide character building opportunity for the kids. They are all staffed and run by parents of children in the organization.

So beyond the simple necessity of facilitating a BSA Unit in the community why would the CO want to take on the true ownership of unit? There is nothing in it for them. Perhaps maybe some servitude. If I were a CO with no children in the unit, why would I want the problems of bad leaders, angry parents, insufficient funds, no meeting place, bad program.etc, etc. Back in the old days, COs chartered units because the kids needed a structured program, there were none others. There was good reason to take on the potential for problems. In a one horse town the church or General Store chartered a unit for the kids. Everyone knew each other, and when the unit was successful, the whole town beamed. The world most of us live in is very different.

If we move to the larger picture, its the concept of the CO that has lead Scouting to its biggest problem ever. Its probably time that we moved to a system more like the GSA.

I'll play.....

SemperParatus,to what end, for what purpose???

Maybe the others just need a leader or someone to show them that it can be different.

As for the CO, many, many (and that is probably an understatement) units have a nothing more than a handshake with their CO. The COs obligation is to do two things; 1- provide a meeting place, and, 2- approve (provide)leaders. Many (probably most) do neither!

Although I am not clairvoyant, I sense an expectation on your part that the CO will provide the program for you. This is not the way it works. The leaders make the program. And when the current leaders phase out, you are left to provide the program for those coming in behind you.

Getting back on topic, I am not a big fan of switching Packs. Where would we be if people didnt stick around to make their operation work? Lets all go find a better Pack or Troop! One without any problems, one with people who ALL get along, one where everybody does their share and ALL the parents contribute to the outcome. Shangri-La is right around the corner.

By switching units we reassure the parents that they dont and wont ever have to step up and help the unit grow. Hey, there are always others out there that do a good job and we can take advantage of them!

Then there is the void thats been left behind. It can never be filled. When Tigers leave a CS Pack, there is a five year cycle that must be completed before the void disappears. Sure the Pack might recruit some Wolves the next year, but the foundation is gone.

Pack meeting are great, but I think that we tend to put too much weight on the success of pack night. Successful dens are not successful because the Pack runs a good program, they are successful because the Den runs a good program. The boys spend better than 70% of their time in the Den setting as opposed to the Pack setting. How much interaction is there with the boys in a Pack? Mostly none, the age groups almost always stay together.

New leaders reinvigorate a unit. New blood, new ideas, a sense of youthful excitement, those are all the things that new leaders bring to a unit. When a new leader leaves, all those things go away.

So when I tell someone, you are such an awesome scouter!!!!, its for a different reason.

Just my two cents.

The other thing that I noticed is that the bigger the Scouters gut, the more apt he is to wear shorts in the Winter!

Dens are not allowed to do independent fundraising. If you think it through, it makes sense. We certainly want some sort of equality within a Pack. There are dozens of ways to finance a Pack. Mostly it depends on how much you want to spend, and, if you believe in fundraisers. Some Packs refuse to do fundraisers and have the parents pay for everything. Other Packs, and I know one of these, only charge for registration and Boys Lifethen they fundraise for everything, This Pack is constantly fundraising. But it works f or them.

We do the following; new Scouts registering for the first time pay $10.00 + $10.80 (Registration & Boys Life) plus $9.00 per month (9 months only). Returning Scouts only pay the $9.00 per month. We collect the money in one lump sum.

The $9.00 per month is split, the Pack gets half, and the Den gets half. We supplement this with Popcorn. It works well for us, but as a Pack we do not pay for outings, camping or trips. Those are all left to the parents. The Pack pays registration and Boys Life for returning Scouts, entertainment at B&G, Pinewood Derby Cars, and of course awards.

With the addition of the Cub Scout Outdoor Award and the various 75th Anniversary Awards this year, we also decided that the pack would not pay for all the patches. We will only pay for one of the many patches this year.

Ditto what OneHour said.

We are very happy with the new track. I does need more storage space than some of the other tracks available today.

Happy Racing!

Units that did a spring recruitment for Tigers rightfully told the parents that he Tiger uniform was the Orange Tee Shirt and jeans. Of course if you recruited in September the uniform changed and was now the blue Cub Scout uniform.

How do you go about doing a uniform inspect for these packs? What do you tell the parents?

The reason I ask, is that we have pack like this. The (now) former UC did a uniform inspection and stuck his foot in his mouth. Everyone got upset, and it created a lot of discomfort all the way around. I am now the new UC for this unit and Im searching for ideas.

I think you are still having trouble understanding the concept and practice of shared leadership.

There is only one Tiger Den Leader, and maybe one (or more) Asst. Tiger Den Leader(s). They are uniformed, trained, and registered adult leaders in BSA. Sometimes they are not trained and sometimes they are not uniformed, but they are still the registered leaders in the Den.

Then there are Tiger Adults, these are the parent partners of the Tiger Cubs. Got it?

The Den Leader is in charge. The DL (or designee) coordinates the activities of the Den. This is one person, not a shared responsibility. If a parent has accepted to take on an achievement (or elective), the DL will facilitate that activity by making the scheduling announcements as needed. The DL may make den funds available to the parent for the activity.

DEPENDING ON THE ARRANGEMENT, the parent may provide the gathering activity along with the achievement activity (or elective) OR just the achievement activity (or elective).

The DL is always responsible for the opening and closing. The DL starts the meeting, and ends it. The DL communicates information to the boys and Parents. The DL will turn over the meeting to the parent doing the activity. The parent is not a defacto Den Leader for the meeting. The DL is always in the middle of things, directing the boys attention to the parent when needed.

The DL is the one putting the Cub Scout stamp on the meeting. The DL is the one who talks about the Promise, and Law of the Pack. The DL is the one who sings the songs, or does the skits. The DL is the one who talks about good deeds and does silly things with the boys. From the boys perspective the DL is the focal point all the time, except for the time you have turned the meeting over to a parent for an activity. When the activity is over, its the DL who concludes the meeting.

Even then, sometimes a parent may wish to step in and do some of this.

When I did Tigers it worked like this:

Gathering activity DL

Opening - DL

Announcements , Business DL

Activity Parent

Closing DL

And when the parent had trouble or was running too long, it was the DL who stepped in.

When the parent had a flop or forgot, it was the DL who stepped in to wing it.

This is a dynamic process; its alive, it flows, and it changes all the time. It is not engineered to the nth degree.

You need to develop an understanding of flexibility, and an ability to be flexible n real time. Sometimes the rules just dont fit, sometimes the structure breaks down, and the best laid plans of mice and men oft times go astray.

I guess I own the Type A tag for the last two weeks, so I offer up a response.

You dont seem to be having personality problems with your scout parents or the other adult leaders, thats good. You simply want more program for your boys. Thats great! Some people are very happy getting by with the bare minimum, face it the boys dont know any better, while others want the boys to experience the whole world of scouting. Thats you.

So, make the program come alive for your boys. You can do many of the 75th Anniversary activities with your den. You can start an outdoors program in your pack. Get trained and start the program. As long as its offer to the pack you can have the outing, even if it ends up being only your den. The new CS Outdoors Award is a great thing to do. If your boys wear the pocket flap, I guarantee that others in the pack will want it.

Lead, follow or get out of the way. Your committee people will get out of the way when they see your boys thriving with a robust program. The other leaders in your pack will follow, and you will lead.

By the way, you can't go winter camping with Cub Scouts. But there are lots of other outdoor activities you can do with them.