fotoscout

My kids would cut off an arm before they'd remove a badge! Buy the oval and a temporary patch holder.

Project this into the future for a moment. What are you going to do if you, or the parent, decides to make a display board or case for the boys CS achievements. You're going to be screwed up because you didn't follow the program. The four diamond belong where they are. Even the lack of a diamond has significance.

Boys who started Cub Scouts in Septemeber 01 or later, should be getting the Oval Webelos Badge.

MY understanding is that they should all be getting the oval. Last year was the final year for the diamond shaped Webelos Badge.

There are specific positions for the diamonds on the shirt. You should not arbitrarily put the Webelos diamond where the Tiger Badge belongs. The full four part diamond tiger-bobcat-wolf-bear is a displayed proudly by the boys who have earned it. We shouldnt diminish their pride by allowing something that is wrong to happen.

Aside from that, the boys should be moving into the tan/green uniform this year. The oval Webelos badge is an incentive for them to make the move. If they havent yet made the move, go to the scout shop and buy an oval temporary patch holder that can be put over the pocket button. This will work just fine until the buy the new uniform.

Gas over liquid ANYTIME !! Even when backpacking.

I have never, ever filled a liquid fuel stove or lantern without getting some of the fuel on my hands or clothes or the ground or a table or whatever. The safety issue is huge, but the cleanliness issue is just as big.

and that's my 3.5 cents.

Thanks Laurie, we did the Valley Forge Pilgrimage yesterday!

What a great event. I was a long drive for us as a one day trip, but it was really worth it. If I had one word to sum it up with I would say it was APPROPIRATE. From the hiking distances, to the presentations at each station, it was appropriate. The boys had a great time and learned plenty, as did the adults.

Well be back for the Encampment in a few years!

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

Sounds like there is a lot of work to be done!

First the money thing is out of control. Where is the treasurer, and the check book? Where are the receipts? If there was enough money to buy a BBQ, several tents and sleeping bag, then why are you mining the internet for neckerchiefs and uniform shirts? Aside from that, CS Packs dont normally purchase and own the type of equipment that you mentioned. Especially not sleeping bags, they are personal equipment.

The CM starts the meetings and then we split into dens??? VERY wrong! Den meetings happen without the CM present (almost exclusively). So what are you having: joint Den/Pack meetings?

Let the CO pull the charter, and start over!

Or go start your own Pack.

I thought the NBC piece was fair and balanced. I did not feel that it had a negative connotation. NBC could have easily used different words and turned it into a very bad piece of BSA history. We should all appreciate that it was handled well.

The response from National appears to me to be VERY defensive. With the action that occurred in Texas in 2000, I would be very surprised if the National people were not (and have not) been on the lookout for this kind of thing nationwide. After all, if it happened in their backyard, it was likely to happen elsewhere.

This situation is one of the great challenges facing the Cub Scout Program today. With more and more opportunities for parents to be involved in their childrens lives (more sports), it is inevitable that the pool of available parents will dwindle. Add to that, the simple fact that most Moms are now in the workforce and you quickly come to the conclusion that the Cub Scouts Program has what some may define as a critical problem.

But I do think that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Our local soccer league was down by some 300 kids this year, and baseball is down by about 200 kids. The parents are rebelling over too much competition and coaches that are either unskilled or out to control, or both.

If you keep beating the drums, you will gain more leaders.

Starwolfmom fear not, for you are not alone ! !

Many units function with a situation just like yours. It is not unusual. What you need to do is simple, recruit more people for the committee. The committee functions are not too different between CS and BS. Make the point that everyone will be better off with more people on the committee. More to the point give the Den Leaders a chance to focus on being Den Leaders, instead of trying to be everything.

Just tell them that you want to be a committee member.

You refer to the postings that talk about troubled Packs. Not all packs with weak committees are troubled, and not all packs with weak committees have weak programs. But most certainly, Packs with strong, well staffed committees have the potential to run a strong program.

Since this guy is a professional Scouter there is most certainly a higher standard that he must be held accountable to!

First I would confirm the offensive comment. Then I would schedule appointments with your SE, and his boss the SE in your neighboring Council. Of all people this man should know better. It makes you wonder what else he is telling these parents and boys about his troop?

The Artist Activity Pin is easy. The boy gets the pin if he has completed the requirements for that pin. It can even be used toward his Webelos Badge if necessary as the one activity pin from another group part of the requirement.

Dues is a more complicated answer. My first question would be: Do you have any written rules about how you dues money is handled? You are referring to this money as Den Dues, do you also pay Pack Dues or is Pack money generated some other way.

Since you are calling this money Den Dues I would suspect that this money is intended to go to the den leaders for den activitys and supplies. Accountability for all money received from the Scouts or their Parents is always a good idea. But if this is truly Den money, the CM should not be making plans to spend it without the approval of the den leaders. It may be awkward for the CM to request a report on this money from the DLs, but I dont think that there is anything too objectionable about it. Remember that financial accountability is a good thing. Although you may have good intention for the use of your den money, other DLs may be less scrupulous. In my Pack all money collected goes to the treasurer. The DLs submit receipts to the treasurer and then receive reimbursement in the form of a pack check.

Something sounds funny about recruiting a new DL for the Webelos II so close to their departure from the pack. There should be no question that the existing DL is in charge. I would think that there is more to this part of the story.

You need to have a sit down with your CC, before going to the DE.

The older Webelos look forward to B&G. they all know that they are getting their awards and they know whats next after B&G. So I have to think that this thought has been circling in the boys mind for some time. I also think that a last minute decision like this was not made without some parental intervention.

I would talk to the parents first. I they prefer to just let it go, then of course you have to honor their decision. If they prefer to have you talk with the boy, I would suggest that you plan the discussion with the parents first. Let them know what youre going to say, and what questions you plan to ask. This way they can continue the conversation after youve gone.

As for the discussion, I would do the following: Focus on his personal growth in the program, talk about the adventures that only scouting can provide, and talk about the opportunities that only scouting can provide. If he is knowledgeable and articulate about his ADHD (and with the parents permission) you may want to point out all that scouting has to offer him as he continues to learn how to deal with his condition.

And on the other hand, he may simply be scared about leaving the pack and joining a troop!

Good Luck, Im sure this was hard on you.

As they get older, they develop their own cadence and it comes out just fine.

Also, as still very young boys they need some way to associated themselves with the promise.

If the boy is registered in an LDS Troop, there is certainly nothing kosher about it.

As for a youth being registered in two units of the same program, I have never heard of this. Part of BSAs fixation on registration is to insure that the boys record of achievements resides in one place, and that he is only credited once with each achievement. To me this sounds a little fishy, scales or no scales.

He is certainly welcome to register with two different types of units, troop/crew/team/post.. but two troops. I think he should pick one and stick with it.

Dont be discouraged, we only had three at the Webelos breakout this month. Like you, I know that some of people at the other breakouts were also Webelos Den Leaders. Maybe being a Webelos leader is the time when wearing too many hats comes home to roost and tough decisions have to be made.

I would think that it also didnt help that you didnt have the Nov. and Dec. breakouts. Continuity is important. Next time youre unavailable for RT, you might try finding a replacement.

I know one pack that does this. The pack is from a very blue collar community where every dime counts and scouting is expensive for them to participate in. Ultimately the families that worked hard at fundraising got tired of watching the loafers benefit from the hard word of their children. So they started Scout Accounts. By the way this is a pack the formally paid, (or at least contributed to) many of the pack outings and functions. One of the more immediate outcomes was better uniforms. The boys wanted to use there Scout Accounts to help pay for uniforms.

However, it is an accounting nightmare. With the turnover that packs have it has been very difficult for them to manage this , both financially and personally. The current treasurer, spend a lot of time managing this thing. They have rules, but of course the adults dont read the rules. And of course that makes for a whole other set of problems.

I keep going back to this thread with one thought in my mind. Tying a bowline is a basic scout skill. Beginning with Cub Scout Bears, there is a requirement that the boy be able to tie a bowline all the way through the Boy Scout Program.

So if they cant tie a bowline, then what have they been doing at all those meetings and camping trips? What kind of Scouting Program have all these boys participated in?

I have to believe that most of them (more than half), are the product of a good solid CS and/or BS program. So whats wrong?

Perhaps the program has grown beyond itself. Maybe in an effort to remain current, the program has lost focus, or possibly even changed its focus. I know that in the Webelos program there is little time to teach knots, and there is a limited number of times that I can pull out the rope box and expect the boys to be interested before becoming bored with the whole thing. Tying knots, building fires, outdoor cooking all pale in comparisons to the rigorous social and academic requirements of the Webelos program.

Sometimes I think that the outdoors portion of the program has become a device for manipulating the boys into staying with the program. Instead of being the device through which the program comes alive.

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That sounds like fun.

It appears that you have some time blocks of time around your meal periods. Be sure to tell the den leaders that they should be prepared to fill these periods with some sort of activity. Certainly the boys need to have some unstructured time, BUT, too much unstructured time will lead to problems.

The meals will only take a short amount of time to eat, and for the most part the boys are not involved in preparing the meals. One of the things you can do with these time periods is to have a short bathroom break, this way the boys wont be leaving the activities to go potty. The time can be used for work on belt loops, arrow points, or activity pin work. You can also do a craft, play catch, or play cards.

Ive found that the whole trip will be better it everyone has less free time. But dont worry about having no free time. Regardless of how prepared you are, and how structured the day appears, the boys will find a way to make some free time!!

Maybe Im not being clear.

This is not an attempt to remove new boys from their Troop. This is a Specialty camp and not necessarily intended as an option to summer camp with your troop. Although that may in fact occur with some boys. We do not plan to run this program every week of camp, but rather on selected weeks.

Here are some of the realities of the Webelos to Scout transition with respect to summer camp.

1. Many Webelos dont move to a troop until late April, May or even June.

2. Many troops wont take the new boys to summer camp if they havent had sufficient time to become comfortable with the new boys and have had them on an overnighter at least once before summer camp.

3. Many Webelos, after seeing the huge age difference of the boys in the troop, are afraid to go to summer camp with them.

4. Ditto number three for the parents. Mom simply wont let an 11 year old go off in the woods for a week with what is largely a group of much older boys.

5. Many (too many I say tongue-in-cheek), go to summer camp out of council; many new scouts and the parents are not ready for this kind of trip. Mom or Dad want to be able to show up at camp check up on little Johnny.

Yes like everyone else we run a first year camper program, we call it Brownsea. The boys in Bridge Camp would participate in Brownsea along with the first year campers who happen to be in camp with their Troop. When the day is over, the Troop campers will return to their Troops and these boys with return to their provisional campsite as a group.

I was told yesterday that this is not a new program for us; we just havent offered it for a few years. There is a lot of excitement about offering it again!

With all due respect Vicki, your post indicates that you've come to the conclusion that this boy will need to recieve special treatment. You have even made this boy the focus of one of your tickets. In addtion, you want to have a preemptive counciling session with the boy and his parents.

Again I say, let this family decide at some later time, that they would like to persue some special treatment. Remember that "do your best" is not just the Cub Scout moto, it is much more than that in the BSA program.

I would think that the family is very knowledgeable, and sensitive to the potential for some type of special treatment. When they are ready, they will come to you, or the SM for guidance.

It appears that they put as much time into the poll as they have into lowering prices for the past unpteen years.

What a lame poll !!!!!!!!!!

The advantage is that many of the boys have seen their school mates doing scout stuff for the last 9 months or so and some are eager to join. You have the advantage of giving them a fun filled warm weather (outdoor) program before beginning to work on the book.

They also have the opportunity to attend camp one year earlier.

Theyll have the advantage of being organized in the fall, without any startup issues. Leaders should already be chosen.

The early recruits will bring new recruits with them in fall, hopefully giving you a larger group of Tigers.

The down side is that you have to offer them a great, and active summer program. You can not sign them up in May, then have no meetings. And of course the existing leaders will most likely bear the brunt of running this new den for the near term.

If your district or council runs a robust late spring and summer program for Tigers, this is a great thing to do. If you have leaders who welcome the idea of working with new Tigers this is a great thing to do. Just remember that if you recruit them in May, you have an obligation to offer a program for them.

I just had this discussion with the CC of one of my CS units. First and foremost she wanted to see information from the Troops about financial issues; ie: costs (including sumer camp), fundraisers, scout accounts, uniform needs, and equipment needs. Along with how monthly campouts are financed.

Secondly, she wanted to see real requirements about participation; what are the expectations of the unit.

This woman, along with a number of other parents from her pack who last year sent boys to different troops, were very upset (in hindsight) about the lack of information they have been given by the various Troops.

Our pack pays for belt loops, even in the case of a Webelos who may earn them twice. In a Pack of 60 boys this can become expensive!

I like the idea of charging an extra $10.00 to participate in the academic and sports program. Some kids and parents gravitate toward the belt loops and take great advantage of the program. Others don't want anything to do with it. If the program is sold to the parents, and they have a financial interest in participating, maybe, just maybe the participation will be greater.

For a few summers I camped with a dwarf, and his family. He was married, with a young child. He and his young daughter, also a dwarf, did everything that the rest of the group did.

After spending time with this very determined individual, I have to agree whole heartedly with Anarchist; Dont drop the bar too quickly! This young man has all the potential that every other boy has. Give him the opportunity to be like everyone else.

Without the as opposed too the answer is yes to all the above.

The intent is very simple. Provisional Boy Scout Summer camp in a troop that is limited to new scouts. It will be available to New Scouts as an additional week of camp, and/or it they are not comfortable going out of council with their own troop this summer. Yes, it will be available to New Scouts who have not yet signed up with a troop, or those who have decided to wait until September before becoming active in the troop.