fotoscout

First, although the DL and ADL are the key figures in the den , the Tiger Program is intended to be shared. I effect if the DL has become a lighting rod, then he is not allowing the parents to do enough, or have enough involvement. Certainly the DL personal issues with his sons health outweigh his scouting responsibilities. He may not longer be able to do the job. Dont be afraid, ask the question!!!

I think we all know that BSA wants everyone to meet weekly, but I am not a proponent of weekly den meetings for Tigers. There is too much potential to burnout the parents and kids this early in the program. Lets face it, these are still very young boys and there are real limitations to what you can do with them. I would suggest setting up a less intensive schedule, but stick to the schedule that you put in place.

As for the guy who is grousing about dues, there is always someone who complains about money. Your should become familiar with your packs financial plan, then explain to him where the money goes. As you close the discussion with him, be sure to let him know that Scouting is available to all, even if they have trouble paying registration and dues. Let him know that both the Pack and Council have programs to help Scouts with a financial need. Would you like to speak with someone about that?? One way or the other, this will put an end to his grousing.

WWBPD, I applaud your strength in making the decision not to attend anymore pro sporting events with your troop. Given the often frenetic and rabid approach our society now displays when it come to sports, I suspect that this wasnt an easy decision for you.

We dont do big league sports with the boys. We do a minor league baseball game and a local college basketball game. The baseball game is outstanding! The stadium is small and very family friendly. They limit alcohol sales, and have no tolerance for unruly fans. The people running this operation have clearly figured out that their business is the family, and they go to great extremes to make the stadium a place where you want to bring your family.

For those of you that do not go to minor league baseball games, I would suggest that you look into it.

This sounds like either a caricature or a Norman Rockwell imitation. I know of no one who would allow a Tiger Scout aged boy walk around with a knife like this strapped to his belt.

This is an opportunity for you to show leadership and remove the knife from the boy. It is simply inappropriate! As a parent, I would have been VERY concerned and nervous during this outing. I would have been VERY happy to see the leader address the problem promptly by separating the boy and his knife.

I have seen people do it. Although it is not common, it is also not uncommon.

Like most other things it depends on how well you pull it off. Two big problems I've seen with it are these: 1) extra Velcro showing on the uniform, usually where some other patch would be worn but is not appropriate for the position you want to identify with at the time, and 2) when attached, the patches must be placed properly, not tilted one way or the other.

Since you have to buy the patches anyway, go to ebay and bid on another shirt. Any way you slice it, this would be neater.

I wore the overseas cap while in college. I know of no other piece of clothing that as many colorful names as does the overseas cap". None are flattering. Some of you must be familiar with a few of those names. Most of the names have an origin in anatomy (gender explicit) or body fluids. I think that this would be one reason for us to continue to stay away from these hats.

A "Closed Pack", this might be the most unscoutlike thing I've ever heard!!!!

I think it starts at the beginning!

From the Get-Go new leaders are allowed to not wear the pants. The kids (parents) just follow suit. So it really becomes a leadership issue. Start them off properly and they will continue in Scouting with the proper uniform. Start them off poorly, and they will continue in Scouting without the proper uniform.

Cost aside, its that simple.

Hi Judy, and welcome!

You are not alone in your thought process. Our Council believes as you do, if the dissemination of information is left to the CM, or DLs, the information will not be passed along to the membership if the CM or DL does not believe in camp or will not be going to camp.

We have a single CS Camp brochure for all of our CS camp (camping) opportunities, day camp and overnights. It is mailed home, AND made available for distribution by the units. The registration form is included with the brochure. We also provide placemats for Blue and Gold that describe the CS camp programs.

This year we will try to make three separate mailings for CS Camp. In addition, we do promos at RT, at the units, at training events, and shamelessly anywhere else we can. There is no silver bullet here! This is about leg work, and phone calls. Yes, the mailings are expensive, but we know for certain that the familys got the information.

Weve also found that although we register kids as a Pack, this is a misleading thought. They really come to camp as Den, not a Pack.. More often than not we have one den from a pack rather than multiple dens from a single pack. So in a way this confirms our thoughts about dissemination of information by the leaders.

In your case, in an ideal world, I would do this;

Mail the flyers, making if PERFECTLY CLEAR in the flyer that everyone can go to camp even if your pack or den doe4s not.

Then make the point to your leaders that they still have the lead when it comes to registering the kids for camp. Im sure that youll have a core group of volunteers to staff the camp.

Maybe the way to grow this group would be to begin your planning and training in September and do it monthly (or so) during the year. This way you could collect new people during the year.

Beam me up Bob!

Aww shucks..............

(hope I spelled that right)

You deserve an answer, but I dont think youll find one here. Youve raised some serious issues that you are only knowledgeable of on a third hand basis at best.

If what youre reporting is even half true, it should be taken up with your council Key Three for an investigation. However, as had been said here, the Key Three hired this guy so there may be some resistance in effectively dealing with him. On the other hand he may be following an agenda that has been laid out for him by the Key Three to help redirectsideline.some non productive Scouters.

Good Luck.

Our FOS and Camp Promotions people are usually district or Council Scouters, and we do see them yearly. Now the camp person is me. Beyond that we never see anyone, not even our UC.

Our CM has that ignorant attitude that anyone with silver loops is a spy. Maybe that's why he doesn't get in the way when I do things to better our operation. Getting back to the question, we don't invite the DE or SE or even the UC to events. I just told you why. Our UC is a no show kind of guy anyway.

As BW said, they are trained to not show up uninvited, so if you are looking for someone to just pop in on you, you might have a long wait.

Even if you invite them, they are typically very busy and don't have time to fulfill all the requests that they get.

On the flip side, as a UC I have an open invitation with two of my packs, if they don't see me every few months they call and ask where I was.

A B&G with Prime Rib from the local steakhouse!! can I come to your B&G??????

Sometimes you can plan and plan and plan in an attempt to do something will ultimately become your legacy. Sometimes it just happens without even as much as a second thought.

Last night at my bead ceremony I got to thinking about what would be my legacy with the Pack as I get ready to move on. I assumed (theres that word),that my legacy would be the reintroduction of outdoors programs to the unit. Boy was I mistaken!

This morning, at the Veterans Day ceremony, as I waited for my boys to arrive I didnt see Webelos hats walking toward the park. I saw Tiger Hats, and then Wolf Hats, and then little Brown Vests followed by larger Green Vests, oh yes and then came the Webelos Hats. Kids, lots of kids!. A far cry from the 7 boys I started doing this with three years ago. In the end there had to be 80 kids today.

Ignorant me, I turn to one of my parents and said, Isnt this nice?

Each of these small groups had a leader, and parents. I imagine they all asked the same question at the same time because almost at once there were people pointing in my direction. The question must have been, Howd we end up here today?

The parent I had just spoken to, turned to me and said, you know, youre the reason theyre all here, you did this.

I certainly never anticipated nor made an attempt to grow this beyond my Den and Pack. We were just doing the right thing. It just happened, and Im sure that from now on it will continue, even without me.

Wow, what great time! Eleven of my twelve boys came, along with bothers, sisters and assorted friends that have been a part of some of the things we do. The ceremony was great, I shared it with fellow Scouter (who was very happy to have someone to share it with!). Unknown to me, the parents conspired with the MC to write a little tune and have the boys sing it. It was great, I cried. Here is the text, of course the tune is Home on the Range, and a little poetic license needs to be applied;

Oh, give me a home where the buffalo roam

Wearing glasses, a beard and a grin

Where boy scouts have fun

Eating eggs on a bun

UH OH, here comes that cobbler again!

Home, home on the range

Where Mister Fotos the best

We hike, camp and swim

the rain does not bother him

and the memories top all the rest!

Oh, give us a den where our leader does roam

Where his knowledge is shared now and then

Where seldom is heard a harsh or angry word

And we dont ever want it to end.

Home, home on the range

Where our thanks are for all that you do

Where were happy to say

Were all here for you today

And we appreciate all that you do.

I think they all went to a local watering hole to write the song....without me! Ummmmm.

After the song, it was my (our) turn, I wrote a little text thanking the boys for allowing us to be a part of their growing up experience, and allowing us to be a prot of it, then presented the boys with their own bead. Actually they were turks head slides that I made. Then I looked up and realized that I had made a tear jerker, the women were all out there balling.

The MC linked the beads we had just given the boys to leaving a legacy (more on that in another thread), and we finshed with the traditional rounds of the Gilwell song. Thankfully I didnt have do a solo.

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

Now dont anyone get jealous. My PR is very easy, I walk next door to my neighbors house and let her know what were doing. She takes pictures, writes a story, and poof were in the paper.

Yes, she happens to be the editor of our local paper. My pack is in the paper 4-5 times a year, 2 or three of them are the front page.

But I have to admit that we get very little out of it. Scouting in our community as a whole, gains, but on a unit level we get nothing except some very happy parents when their kid is on the front page.

Oh yeah, and I get bragging rights at RT.

Well we finally got around to scheduling my bead ceremony for tonight. Actually my ticket counselors wife has been very ill and I waited until he could make time to be at the ceremony.

It will be done at RT, with all of my boys in attendance. The plan is to do the ceremony then call up the boys and thank them for being the inspiration that drives the WB experience.

Any comments or thoughts? Im always looking for new text.....

Tonight it's Buffalo chips for everyone!!!

Ive used a product called Sno-Seal for many years. Its made from Bees wax. If youre concerned with appearances after youve applied the treatment then this isnt for you. If will darken and leave a slight buildup on the leather. But the stuff works, and its cheap!

You warm the boot in an oven, spread the stuff over the boot and work it into the seams. Then wipe off the excess. All done.

Our popcorn is not great this year. We will be down by a total of about $800, and thats with a increase of about $1000 in Show and Sell. This years total will be $5600.

Council changed the program this year, by forcing us to use the prize system offered by Trails End, and by mailing the order forms to each home around mid July. Most of the forms got thrown into the garbage, because it looked like junk mail and no one was looking for it. By time we had our program up an running this year, we had already lost 1 month of Take Order, and realized that almost no one had order forms. We only had one product under $10.00! The small tin of Carmel Popcorn, it sold well but the other stuff was just too expensive for most people.

We did more show and sell, but that became troublesome because no one could tell us how to handle the prizes with respect to the Show and Sell. This got to be quite ugly at one point.

Additionally, when Council forced us into the prize system they took 5% of our profit, without every asking it we wanted to go in that direction, and told us that we had to live with it. Ultimately, the online order system would have allowed us to opt out of the prize system and take the money. Thereby allowing us to do our own prize thing, which had worked well for us over the years.

All in all Im not happy with what they did, and Im convinced that our sales are down because of the confusion early on.

I have to admit that I am not a fan of winter camping. Sure theres a challenge and satisfaction quotient to it, but I primarily see it as a Gear sport. Without the proper gear, conditions and situations that are wholly of your control can literally mean the difference between life and death, or, the loss of toes and fingers.

Good winter gear is very costly. I believe that its out of line for a Scout Leader to have the parents shell out that kind of money for a few nights of fun in the dead of winter. Cabin camping on the other hand, is a different story, provided the cabin has some source of heat.

Greg, you play a good Devils Advocate.

As for the parent signing off on an achievement under dubious circumstances, you have little control over that. The only one that looses is the boy. You stand to loose too much personal capital by challenging the signature. A constant drone about the importance of diligently doing the achievements wont do any harm.

Chronologically, youve setup a simpler scenario, and I would agree that if you did your den trip in Sept. and the school went in Nov. I would probably say yes its OK to use.

The difference is in the desire to see the boy complete his achievements, vs. the intentional manipulation of the go-see-it for the purpose of expedience (?).

Bob, the problem is that no one in the Troop is a spectator, everyone is a participant. Everyone contributes to, and everyone affects the end product. In a play everyone has a 100% commitment, even the understudy. How would that play turn out if the understudy was a part timer and had to go on stage knowing only some of the lines?

But getting back to the original question, its about commitment. Coaches demand commitment, and we dont. When the boy decides to play soccer, its in part because the coach expects him to be at the game and the boy doesnt want to let him down. Call it a guilt trip if you want. We dont do that.

When little Johnny says to his CM, I wont be at the Cub Campout this weekend because I have a Soccer Game, the CM replys, Im sorry to hear that, you are going to miss some good stuff, well miss you.

If it were turned around, the coach would respond, Gee Johnny, I was counting on you being at the game, the team really needs you. Why dont we go talk to your dad and see if youll reconsider.

Eagledad, I dont think youll regret that thought. I understand what Bob is saying and there is certainly truth in it. But I dont believe that you can become the best show in town simply by working hard to get there without demanding a commitment.

Say you have a Troop of 30 boys and 10 are really gung ho active Scouts. Those 10 boys can work themselves to death in an effort to better the program, but the other 20 are going to stand as an impediment to progress at every turn. Look at this in terms of the sports analogy, 10 dedicated players and 20 hangers-on. Those 10 players can stand on their heads all day long and the team wont get any better without a commitment from the other 20. This is a simple equation; commitment = excellence (or, the best show in town)!

Sorry folks, I would say NO.

The Go-See-Its (as are any Den, Pack, or Troop outing) are intended to be more than an academic pursuit to complete the achievement. They are intended to be a special time for the boys to not only have fun together, but to bond as a group and to create those shared experiences that will ultimately become their memory of Scouting. They put on their uniforms and proudly make their way to the go-see-it, and when they get there, surprise surprise, the only ones in their group are Scouts!!

Lets look at it another way. Who are the boys going to interact with while on the trip? Surely their interaction will not be limited to only their fellow Tiger Cubs. Who will be leading the trip? I suspect strongly that you are not the teacher who will be leading the trip. AND, what about the parents? Will they all be there, remember, parents are required in Tigers because Tigers is a Parent-Child program.

Tiger Go-See-Its are den activities, they should be for the den and lead by the leader.

My suggestion is this: certainly go on the field trip. Then go to the other firehouse in January. Kids cannot get too much of a firehouse! If your parents are too narrow minded to realize that, then go to the police station, or ambulance corp., Red Cross Warehouse, or any other location that fits the achievement.

The real question is,,,Which one really belonged at Yale?

I got so absorbed in my reply that I almost forgot where I started.

You cant be the best show in town without commitment. Youll never become the best show in town without demanding commitment. And thats just something we dont do.