fgoodwin

JD, they're not MY stats -- they come directly from the article. But I agree that its hard to know the causation behind the correlation. And it turns out that BSA has had similar losses over that time period: 1985: 4,845,040 (http://www.bsa14.org/history/1980.html) 2003: 3,200,218 (http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-501.html) diff: 1,644,822 or 34%

FS, that's not what I said. The SA is clearly different from BSA in at least two ways: they allow girls, and they allow gays. I don't know when they began doing so -- but I don't think the result is anything we (BSA) should strive to emulate.

JD says "here's an opportunity to learn what might happen if we were to step beyond our prejudices and grow in a new direction". What "might" happen? To learn what actually DID happen, simply read the article: "In Britain, 1% of the 400,000 Scouts are Muslim . . ." ". . . the number of members in the UK has fallen from more than 650,000 in the 1980s." What actually did happen was a reduction in membership of almost 40% in 20 years -- is that the "new direction" we want to "grow" into?

The essay, and a photo of Mr. Witcraft, are available here: http://www.scoutingaround.com/boy_scouts/power/ The quote that started this thread has been "Politically Corrected". Witcraft's original words were:A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove. But the world may be different, because I was important in the life of a boy.

The Scout Association printed a denial that Scouting is open to atheists, as was reported in the Times article above:We are aware that in some newspapers an incorrect statement is made that Scouting is open to atheists. This of course is not true and we have gone back to those newspapers to clarify this point.http://www.scouts.org.uk/noticeboard/latest.htmSo the Scout Association continues to bar atheists, although they do admit homosexuals.By the way, the Times article is also available here:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1650843,00.html(This message has been edited by fgoodwin)

I just completed redoing the online YPT in preparation for the Jamboree (my last card was two years old and I re-did it because I wasn't sure how old it could be and still be considered valid for purposes of the Jamboree). Anyway, after I entered my information, I got an email-copy of my YPT card within minutes. I know others have complained that they never got their card, but I think the difference in my case is that I entered a valid member ID number. I know you can take the training even as a non-member of BSA (meaning you would not enter a member number), but I think entering a number which can be confirmed against BSA records ensures you will get your card back quickly. Has anyone else done the online training and gotten their card?

By the way, the study mentioned in the article above is available here: http://www.aeoe.org/resources/research/AB1330/OEeffects-finalreport.pdf http://tinyurl.com/b5drc http://www.aeoe.org/resources/research/AB1330/OEeffects-appendices.pdf http://tinyurl.com/8pjuz Unfortunately, the study did not look at the effects of Scouting as an outdoor program -- it focused strictly on school-based outdoor resident programs for science. I've never heard of such programs (I'm pretty sure there are no such programs in my son's middle school or school district). But the study does show a positive correlation between outdoor exposure and students' personal & social skills as well stewardship of the environment. Those positive outcomes are consistent with the goals and objectives of Scouting, so it seems to me, Scouting can also have a positive affect on the personal & social skills of Scouts as well as on their stewarship of the environment. Take, for example, this factoid from the study: Fifty-six percent of the treatment group reported that outdoor school represented the first time they had spent time in a natural setting. (Conclusions, page vii) For over half the kids in the study, "outdoor school" was their first exposure to nature! Surely Scouting can help improve on those numbers. So with respect to those school administrators who balk at Scouting's in-school recruitment: I wonder if these study results can be used to persuade them of the value of Scouting to support their educational objectives? Fred G.

In the following article, the author claims outdoor experience increases kids' math and science scores: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/louv/20050607-9999-lz1e7louv.html'>http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/louv/20050607-9999-lz1e7louv.html This looks like a perfect opportunuity for Scouting to partner with schools for the betterment of all kids! --------------------------------------------------------------------- No child left behind in the woods UNION-TRIBUNE June 7, 2005 MILWAUKEE, Wisc. A few weeks ago, Paul Zettel, a health education instructor at Riverside University High School, attended a conference held in California; the purpose of the meeting was to train teachers in the finer points of the No Child Left Behind version of education reform. As Zettel tells it, teachers were told, point blank, that they were not to question, not to doubt and certainly not to look for alternative approaches beyond the classroom. Dismayed, he flew home to his school, which takes a less literal approach. "If you want true learning, you've got to give kids space to wonder," he says. "Every week, we take kids fishing, down on the Milwaukee River, in those woods there," he said when I met him last week at the century-old brick building in one of Milwaukee's older neighborhoods. To sponsor these and other outings, Riverside partners with a pioneering inner-city program, the Urban Ecology Center, which annually hosts over 18,000 student visits from 22 schools located within a two mile radius of the city's Riverside Park. I followed a dirt path down to the river, and found students with their teachers on the bank of the lazy, brown river inner city youngsters casting and giggling, with no room in their eyes for fashionable cynicism. After ducking a few back-casts, I walked along a path through the woods to the two-story Urban Ecology Center, made of recycled, well, everything. From its four-story lookout tower, you can view the entire expanse of Riverside Park, which was designed in 1890 by Frederick Law Olmsted, the founder of American landscape architecture. When this park was first established, it was a tree-lined valley, with a sledding hill, a waterfall, skating, swimming, fishing and boating. But when adjacent Riverside High School was expanded in the 1970s, some of the topography was flattened to create sports fields (much as the San Diego School District would like to do to one of our major urban canyons). Pollution made the river unfit for human contact; maintenance declined; and crime grew. Then came a tipping point. In the early 1990s, a retired biophysicist started a small outdoor education program in the abandoned park. A dam was removed in 1997, and the return of natural flow flushed out contaminants. "Crime in the park went down thanks, in part, to a growing number of dog walkers, who weren't supposed to bring their pooches there but got winks from the police," writes Milwaukee Journal Sentinel architecture critic Whitney Gould. The creation of the non-profit Urban Ecology Center was the crowning achievement, illustrating how environmental education can not only help students, but a whole city as well. For example, the tower creates the sense that someone is watching out for the kids sometimes literally. "From up there, I tracked and gave phone reports to the police about a driver who was trying to hit people on the bike path," says Ken Leinbach, the former science teacher who directs the Center. Except for that incident, no serious crime has occurred in the park in the past five years. "One of the keys to our success is that many teachers would like to use outdoor classrooms, but they don't feel they're trained adequately. When the schools partner with us, they don't have to worry about training," Leinbach says. Proving educational value is another barrier. While Paul Zettel may not be fond of California especially after the "no child left behind" conference he and Leinbach can look to our state for the kind of statistical evidence that has yet to be gathered by any Milwaukee study. Yesterday, the California Department of Education and the American Institutes for Research revealed the results of a major study, partly funded by the Sierra Club, of environment-based school programs in Fresno, Los Angeles and San Diego (specifically, the San Diego County Office of Education's Cuyamaca Outdoor Residential Science program). Among the findings: sixth grade kids in these programs improved their math and science scores 27 percent; they were also more cooperative, more engaged in the classroom, and more open to conflict resolution. Martin LeBlanc director of the Sierra Club's Inside the Outdoors Project, says the statistics are impressive, but the number of California schools with outdoor education programs is not. "The fact that only 15 percent of California's young people get a chance to participate in an outdoor environmental education program is truly pathetic and most of these students come from high income areas; so low income children are getting no exposure whatsoever to the outdoors," he says. Still, the study results are impressive, suggesting that other urban regions would do well to replicate the San Diego Office of Education program, which should be expanded. And San Diego, as it looks to preserving its urban wildlands -especially the canyons, which offer perfect outdoor classroom space should send a fact-finding delegation to old Milwaukee. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Louv's column appears on Tuesdays. He can be reached by e-mail at rlouv@cts.com or via Find this article at: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/louv/20050607-9999-lz1e7louv.html

You're welcome -- actually, I've never seen a Troop flag with a gold star on it. I hope that means none of the Troops I'm familiar with have ever lost a Scout in military duty. But more likely it means Troops aren't aware of this option for honoring their fallen members, or they know of the option but they don't know what's become of their members who've gone on to military duty. As someone mentioned in another thread, this would be a great project for a Troop Historian -- to track down former members who've gone on to military service, and find out what's become of them, and then honor those who gave the ultimate sacrifice.

GOLD STARS (MEMORIAL) Gold stars may be affixed to the unit flag indicating members of the unit who died in the service of their country. The stars should be placed along the staff edge of the flag, parallel to the staff, with the bottom star 6 inches from the staff edge and 6 inches from the bottom edge; subsequent stars to be placed proportionately on that line, up to the place assigned to the veteran insignia, No. 11117. Ref: Insignia Guide, page 49 (2003-2005 edition)

Trev, this practice is consistent with the Uniform & Insignia Guide (p49 of the 03-05 edition). There was a thread about this a couple of years ago: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=39406 There were also two very brief threads about this on SCOUTS-L: March, 2003: do an archive search for "Patches" July, 2004: search for "Gold Star on Unit Flag" Fred G.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=48456 Boy Scouts of America Recognizes National Safety Month; Nation's Leading Youth Organization Offers Suggestions for a Safe Summer 6/7/2005 9:02:00 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------- To: National Desk Contact: Claire McLarty of Boy Scouts of America, 512-478-3335 or claire.mclarty@edelman.com IRVING, Texas, June 7 /U.S. Newswire/ -- In response to America's more than 2.7 million accidental youth-related injuries each summer (see Note 1 below) the nation's leading youth service organization, the Boy Scouts of America, recognizes National Safety Month this June with its summer safety tips for families and youth. As summer approaches and school semesters end, America's youth will fill class-free days with increased time outdoors through various summer activities, including organized sports, biking, and swimming. For swimming activities alone, more than 250 swimming-related deaths are estimated each year (See Note 2 below); drowning remains the second leading cause of death among children ages 1 to 14 (See Note 3 below). The BSA encourages Americans to have a safe summer by reminding everyone of these summer safety guidelines. "During the summer, the pace is often a bit more relaxed, and it can be easy to forget the importance of safety, but taking the time to be prepared can help people enjoy summer fully," said Debra Griffith, director, Risk Management, BSA. "The BSA wants to remind everyone that just because summer offers a break from work or school doesn't mean people should relax their focus on safety. In fact, the BSA knows how much more fun summer can be when everyone makes sure to put safety first." Through the Good Turn for America initiative, the BSA supports a number of programs that help improve the community, but none of these programs can be successful without a commitment to safety from those involved. As a result, the BSA encourages all Americans to work and play safely this summer. In recognition of National Safety Month, the BSA suggests that everyone abide by the following 12 principles of safety, which are applicable to a host of summer activities: -- Planning. Good planning minimizes risks and anticipates contingencies that may require an emergency response or a change of plan. Emergency communications also need to be considered in advance for any foreseeable contingencies. -- Qualified Supervision. Every activity should be supervised by a conscientious adult. The supervisor should be sufficiently trained, experienced, and skilled in the activity to be confident of his or her ability to lead and teach the necessary skills and to respond effectively in an emergency. -- Physical Fitness. Supervisor should receive a complete health history from a health-care professional, parent, or guardian for youth participants in any potentially strenuous activity. The supervisor should adjust all supervision, discipline, and protection to anticipate potential risks associated with individual health conditions. -- Buddy System. The long history of the buddy system has shown that it is always best to have at least one other person with you and aware at all times of your circumstances and what you are doing in virtually any activity. -- Safe Area or Course. Know the area or course for the activity and make sure that it is well suited for your activity and free of hazards. -- Equipment Selection and Maintenance. Check equipment to determine whether it is in good condition for the activity and make sure it is maintained properly while in use. -- Safety Procedures. For most activities, commonsense procedures and standards can greatly reduce risk. These should be known and appreciated by all participants, and the supervisor must ensure compliance. Supervisors must ensure that every participant has and uses the appropriate personal safety equipment. -- Skill Level Limits. Every activity has a minimum skill level. Identify and recognize this level and be sure participants are not put at risk by attempting any activity beyond their abilities. -- Weather Check. The risks of many outdoor activities vary substantially with weather conditions. Potential weather hazards and the appropriate responses should be understood and anticipated. -- Permits and Notices. Any permits, authorizations, or similar formalities are the supervisor's responsibility when such are required. Appropriate notification should be directed to parents, enforcement authorities, landowners, and others as needed, before and after the activity. -- First-Aid Resources. Determine what first-aid supplies to include among the activity equipment. The level of first-aid training and skill appropriate for the activity should also be considered. Whatever is determined to be needed should be available. -- CPR Resource. Any strenuous activity could present a cardiac emergency. A person trained in cardiopulmonary resuscitation should be available during events that involve strenuous activity. ------ Serving nearly 4.1 million young people between 7 and 20 years of age with more than 300 councils throughout the United States and its territories, the Boy Scouts of America is the nation's foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. For more information on the BSA, visit http://www.scouting.org NOTES: (1) National SAFE KIDS Campaign (2) U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (3) Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; National SAFE KIDS Campaign http://www.usnewswire.com/ -0- / 2005 U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/

Two more suggestions: (1) find out when & where your district holds its monthly Roundtable; make it a point to attend regularly and bring as many of your leaders and parents as possible. Your district and Council may sponsor many activities that will take the load off of your Pack to come up with so many things on your own. (2) find out who is your District Commissioner and ask him or her to assign your Pack a unit commissioner. Your unit commissioner can be a great resource to act as a neutral third party in dispute resolution, to suggest program ideas, to be a shoulder to lean on, etc. Good luck, Fred Goodwin, UC Alamo Area Council

At the National Meeting, Supply Division had a sample copy of the new book, "Cub Scouting: The First 75 Years of Doing Our Best". The part no. is 34473. The retail price is $19.95 (plus shipping + tax). Advance orders may be submitted now; ask for form 70-196 at your Scout Shop. Fred Goodwin Alamo Area

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/11783614.htm By Bill Cotterell DEMOCRAT POLITICAL EDITOR The moral values taught by the Boy Scouts are vital in combatting terrorism, White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card told a Tallahassee audience Monday night. About 400 supporters of the Suwannee River Area Council of the Boy Scouts of America sat in rapt silence as Card told of "my most memorable day in the White House" - three days after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. That was the Friday when President Bush attended a memorial service at the National Cathedral, flew to New York to personally stand amid the smoldering wreckage of the World Trade Center with police and firefighters, then comforted families of the dead and missing. But Card said there were many unseen events that day - an FBI briefing in which Bush "redirected the bureaucracy" to prevent future attacks, a "very sobering briefing" by the CIA and a Cabinet meeting in which he told department heads to keep regular functions of government going during the crisis. Card related the president's oath of office to those taken by members of the military and the principles of patriotism, duty and honor instilled by scouting. "When the president said he'd preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, it was an awesome obligation that he accepted for us," Card said. "But it was also an obligation that the president knew he could not meet alone." Addressing a group of Scouts who presented the flag and led the pledge of allegiance at the start of the fund-raising banquet, a day after Memorial Day, Card asked them "to live by the oaths that you take and remember the sacrifices others have made so that you can take that oath." "What this is all about is meeting the responsibility of an oath," he said. "And Scouts are taught to live by that." Chuck Ezell, executive director for the 13-county scouting council, said Gov. Jeb Bush, Secretary of State Glenda Hood and lobbyist Randy Enwright were instrumental in getting Card to address the second-annual Golden Eagle dinner at the University Center Club on the campus of Florida State University. "It helps when the president's brother is your governor," said Ezell, estimating the dinner would raise more than $100,000 for Scouting programs. "We had a lot of people who made requests of Mr. Card," Hood said. "We knew that Andrew Card would be interested because he used to be a Boy Scout himself." The Suwannee River Area Council includes more than 4,000 Scouts and 1,600 adult leaders in eight counties of North Florida and five in South Georgia, Ezell said. Card, a former Massachusetts state legislator, served as secretary of the Department of Transportation for the first President Bush and was a White House aide to President Reagan. He met with the governor's staff and some department heads early in the day. Department of Juvenile Justice Secretary Anthony Schembri, who attended the meeting and the Boy Scout dinner, said they talked about management and leadership techniques. "It was a wonderful opportunity to hear from them but also to share some of my observations about how the White House works," Card said.

"Perfect" attendance is not the intent of the pin. See page 12-6 of the Cub Scout Leader Book: ATTENDANCE PIN AND BAR: a gold-colored pin that Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts may wear to recognize good attendance at den and pack meetings . . . Requirements for this award are determined by the pack committee.

"The elected representatives have no power, for example, to limit free speech . . ." NJCS, I'm sure you know this, but it bears repeating: the right of free speech under the First Amendment is not absolute. Local, state & federal governments can and do restrict freedom of speech all the time. A most obvious example is that we have no First Amendment "right" to lie under oath in a judicial proceeding. Companies have no first amendment "right" to publish false advertising. We have no first amendment "right" to slander or libel another person, etc. I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the BSA and character development in young people, but I thought it was worth reminding readers, in case they had forgotten . . .

acco40: if you don't think Scouting positively affects the lives of boys, then tell me why are we all wasting our time?

That's a fair question, but misplaced, I think. The comparison isn't whether ex-Boy Scouts make better decisions than ex-Campfire youth; the question is, do ex-Scouts make better decisions than people who were not Scouts as youths? I think the study does a good job of answering that question.(This message has been edited by fgoodwin)

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=47864 Boy Scouts of America: New Study Reveals Youth Unprepared to Make Challenging Ethical Choices 5/24/2005 9:32:00 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------- To: National Desk Contact: Claire McLarty, 512-478-3335, for Boy Scouts of America, 512-478-3335 or claire.mclarty@edelman.com IRVING, Texas, May 24 /U.S. Newswire/ -- A new Harris Interactive study shows that while many of today's youth are unprepared to make moral and ethical decisions, Americans who participated in the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) are more likely to make the most ethical, but not always the easiest choices. The Values of Americans - A Study of Ethics and Character, commissioned by the Boy Scouts of America, highlights the values held by society. The Values of Americans study is a follow-up to the 1995 Harris Interactive research The Values of Men and Boys in America and provides a comparison of current American values with those of ten years ago. The survey results reveal a clear picture of the values of American adults and youth. Several key findings regarding the current state of American youth include: -- Half of youth cheated on homework or a test in the past 12 months with 16 percent saying they have cheated five or more times. -- The use of alcohol is prevalent among youth. One quarter drank a full glass of alcohol or can of beer in the past 12 months with 14 percent saying they have had an alcoholic beverage five times of more in the past year. -- Nearly a quarter of youth took part in a group fight and 10 percent say they hurt someone badly enough to need bandages or a doctor. -- Youth are experimenting with drugs. Sixteen percent say they smoked marijuana in the past year and eight percent indicate they have done so five or more times. -- The incidence of violent or delinquent behaviors increases as youth move into their teenage years. -- Boys are more likely than girls to engage in violent or delinquent behaviors. The study also shows that Scouting continues to make a positive impact in the lives of youth. The Values of Americans Study reinforces the difference that Scouting can make, including: -- Scouts show higher self-confidence, leadership skills, and a greater interest in helping others than youth who are not Scouts. -- More than 80-percent of former Scouts report that Scouting has taught them to be a good team player, to always be honest, to take better care of the environment, and to respect the life and property of others. -- Men who were Scouts five or more years are more likely than those who have never been Scouts to graduate from high school (91 percent versus 87 percent) and graduate from college (35 percent versus 19 percent). -- Two-thirds of former Scouts report there have been real life situation where having been a Scout helped them to be a better leader (83 percent for former Scouts who were in the program five or more years). "While many of the issues youth face have changed in the past ten years, Scouting continues to provide youth with the skills they need to face an evolving society," said Roy Williams, Chief Scout Executive, BSA. "For 95 years Scouting has provided interesting and challenging programs that teach character and leadership to America's youth." Serving nearly 4.1 million youth between 7 and 20 years of age in more than 300 councils throughout the United States and its territories, the Boy Scouts of America is the nation's foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. For more information about this study, contact the Youth and Family Research Center at 972-580-2103 or visit Web: http://www.scouting.org --- Harris Interactive conducted The Values of American Study from September 2004 through October of 2004. The study is comprised of two interrelated surveys; one of adult men and women and the other of American youth. The youth survey consisted of a paper questionnaire randomly distributed to 1,714 young Americans (868 boys and 846 girls) in grades four through 12 at public, private and parochial schools across the United States. The adult survey was administered via telephone to a random sample of 1,524 adults ages 18 and older. For full survey results, contact Claire McLarty at 512-478-3335, or Email: claire.mclarty@edelman.com . http://www.usnewswire.com/ -0- / 2005 U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/

I know its bad form to follow-up your own post, but I had to add this comment: Many of you will no doubt disagree with everything Bill Lawhon of LNT says above. You have that right. But whether or not you agree with the LNT guidelines, it is clear that no one is in a better position to interpret those guidelines than LNT itself. So if you continue to burn your trash because you disagree with the LNT Guidelines, you are free to do so -- just understand that you do so with the knowledge that LNT itself says otherwise. Fred G.

I put this question directly to the LNT organization, and here is their response: There are several reasons we advocate packing out trash (and leftover food) rather than burning it: It generally takes a very hot fire to adequately burn trash and/or food completely which can create other problems such as out of control fires, wildfire, etc. A Sierra Club study headed by H.T. Harvey found that incinerating leftover food (and trash) requires nearly 30% more wood than cooking the food to begin with. Trash that accumulates in fire rings and pits that is not completely burned can be a very strong attractant for wildlife. This can start a viscous cycle of wildlife scavenging for human foods which leads to significant problems. Trash breeds trash. If one camper leaves a trashed fire ring, those that follow can be more likely to do the same. Fire pits and rings can quickly become backcountry trashcans. Burning trash can (and does in some cases) give off potentially toxic fumes as well as leaves toxic residue in fire pits and rings. See attached research. Trash that is partially burned is a eyesore that someone will eventually have to deal with, i.e. pack out. Hopefully this information will help. Please let me know if I can be of additional assistance. Best, Ben Lawhon Education Director Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics P.O. Box 997, Boulder, CO 80306 P: 303.442.8222 x104 F: 303.442.8217 http://www.LNT.org

http://www3.knoxnews.com/kns/family/article/0,1406,KNS_308_3794120,00.html http://tinyurl.com/a2l7g May require registration

What are the requirements in order for a Troop Chaplain Aide to wear the "trained" strip? Does anyone have a training syllabus they could share with me? Our local Protestant Committee wants to offer Chaplain Aide training; we'd prefer not to reinvent the wheel if another Council or Religious Relationships Committee has offered such training and has a syllabus available. Thanx, Fred Goodwin Protestant Committee on Scouting Alamo Area council

I'm not an expert in the BSA Physical Fitness Award -- I simply posted the press release. If you have issues with the BSA requirements, its probably better to take it up with them directly, rather than posting to a public Internet forum, where you may (or may not) get any reliable answers. Sorry I can't answer your questions. Good luck, Fred G.