emb021

As Eagle92 pointed out, this concept have been around for a long time, and actually is known as the 'whole scout family' within the BSA (atleast back in the 50s).

However, its NOT "one unit".

Its one GROUP (which we would call a Charter Org) that has all the program units (cubs, scouts, venturers, etc) under 'one roof'. Instead of separate committees for each, one committee for all, under leadership of a 'group scoutmaster', with each unit having their own (cubmaster, scoutmaster, venturing advisor/skipper- using BSA terms) leader.

The ONE thing I see preventing this from working in the BSA is the silly overlap of the Boy Scout program with Venturing/Sea Scouting. Too often we have Venturing crews 'associated' with Troop who are treated as auxiliary groups to the troop, NOT as co-equals.

At least in my area, while you see COs who have troops & crews, too often the Packs are with separate COs.

Eagle92: "However in the field you gotta use your resources."

I agree. And as I said, some people can hand more then one position.

My issue is when you have someone asking for ONE position, and they get passed over to give someone who ALREADY has 2-3 position yet another one.

"I tend to believe Norman Rockwell did all the illustrations for that year's calendar - illustrating a different Law each month."

No, not how it worked.

We think of today's calenders, in which each month a different picture is shown.

With the B&B calenders (and many of the day), there was only ONE illustration, and you tore off each month.

Rockwell only did 1 scout calender painting each year, not 12.

The best way to promote the OA is not in having OA members just wear their sashes at other events.

Its by having the OA DOING stuff at those other events, and wearing the sash while they do it.

Have them be staff at camporees and cub scout events and the like. Have them have a nice exhibit/activity at the Scout Show.

The point I was trying to make was that only those DOING stuff as an arrowman should be wearing the sash, not everyone.

I see two issues with burn out that people need to be aware of.

* holding too many positions ("too many hats"). The people who hold more then one position, often at different levels (unit, district, council). There is no rule as to how many are too many. It's up to the person. For some, one is enough (especially if its a big position). For others, it can be 2 or 3, but if they take #4, that can be too many for that person.

Personally, I wish groups would work to find more people so that others don't have to take on multiple roles. If there are people asking to take on roles, when you have others having multiples, may be something to address.

* all positions should be for one year 'terms', even appointed positions. Never view any position as a 'forever' position. Everyone is appointed to a one year term, with possibility of re-appointment. This allows for a clear end of the term and a chance for the person to continue for another term, or not. Again, for some people one year is enough, for others they can hold a position for several years before they need to step away.

"Maybe the folks trying to limit sash wear aren't talking to the folks who want to use "honor society" membership as a means to encourage high personal standards of conduct."

No.

We encourage high personal standards of conduct by OUR conduct, not the wearing of something.

There is a right time and a wrong time to wear certain things. Just as medals are to be saved for special occasions, the wearing the OA sash should be 'saved' for when its truly appropriate.

What CalicoPenn says.

Frankly, a lot of this wearing the sash when it really isn't proper makes it seem showoffy. Example: all the scouts wearing it at a COH, etc.

The OA flap patch AND OA ribbon dangle are your 'day to day' items on your uniform to show your OA membership. The OA sash should ONLY be brought out, as noted by CP, when you're representing the Order.

Sometimes people go overboard on this. For instance, the OA will be at our Scout Show doing some service. Great. Does that mean that EVERY OA member should wear his (or her) sash at the Scout Show. Well, unless you are part of the OA group at the Show, NO. Just common sense.

"But again, I'm not sure that recognition of service should be the same as recognition of financial contribution."

And this is why the BSA created a whole line of awards for just this thing.

You have the James West award, 1910 Society, and Founder Circle. With the 1910 and FC, you wear an extra pin on the West knot.

West is for giving $1000 to the endowment.

The 1910 Society has 4 levels:

* Ernest Thompson Seton, $25,000 minimum gift.

* Daniel Carter Beard, $100,000 minimum gift.

* Theodore Roosevelt, $500,000 minimum gift.

* Waite Phillips, $1,000,000 and up.

Founder's Circle has 4 levels. Its for giving deferred gifts intended for the council's endowment.

* Bronze $100,000 minimum gift commitment

* Silver $250,000 minimum gift commitment

* Gold $500,000 minimum gift commitment

* Platinum $1,000,000 minimum gift commitment

"I also have to disagree with BadenP. In our council, FOS contributions aren't what's considered for the DAM or SB. What's looked at is the overall contribution to Scouting by the person."

Ditto for my council.

We have a lot of hardworking, dedicated scouters who AREN'T 'money people' get DAM and SB each year.

"I would have really hoped that they would have expanded their search to include people from outside the BSA. I still think that a former secretary of defense, or someone else with a high profile, could make a big difference. Let's put Mike Rowe in the job for two years."

Sorry, but the Chief Scout Executive is the top employee of the BSA. Basically what we call in most organizations an Executive Director. I'd rather it be someone who knows how to run a non-profit in that position. And also who should do what a NED does, which means NOT bossing the members around. That should be the job of the National President and National Commissioner.

Mike Rowe is someone I wish we'd make our Chief Scout. Other associations have this position. We used to at the beginning. Bear Grylls is the Chief Scout for the UK.

All you (or someone in your troop) needs to do is contact your local lodge to get an election team to come and do an elections.

Not sure when your lodge does its elections & call out cycle. I can tell you in our lodge its too late for this year. We had those earlier in the year, and our Ordeal was a couple of months ago.

To be eligible to be in the OA, youth must be First Class, have completed 15 days and nights of camping, including a week-long camping experience (usually summer camp), and be approved by his Scoutmaster. ALL boys in the troop elect those they feel are worthy from those eligible. In the OA, youth are those under 21, so this includes any under 21 ASMs.

If your troop elects youth, your troop leadership can select ONE adult to join as well. This is usually the SM at first, then ASMs.

Its all on my website, www.seniorscoutinghistory.org.

But basically, in 1949, the BSA replaced/renamed the Senior Scout Division the Explorer Division. With it, the programs within it were renamed and Sea Scouts became Sea Explorers. Other then some minor tweeks to uniforms and officers (boatswain became the equivalent to an SPL), the program remained the same.

In 1959, the BSA made Explorers Exploring, and made that program more career-oriented, but left Sea Explorers along. For awhile.

It was in 1965 that they made changes to Sea Explorers.

Ships would fall into one of 3 "fleets": Blue, White, Red.

"Blue" Ships were your traditional "Sea Scout" units. Follow the traditional program including uniforms and advancement.

"White" Ships were your less traditional ships. May not use the uniform and advancement. May be a little more career-oriented, more sailing clubs/yacht club types. The Small Boat Handler and Qualified Seaman award pins were created for these ships, as they probably wouldn't be interested in the traditional advancement.

"Red" "ships" were all other Sea Scout Ships (properly Explorer Posts) that just happened to have a nautical focus, but NOT on Sea Scouting. Your SCUBA posts, oceanography posts, water skiing, and such. Would most likely NOT be uniformed in any real way, definitively not be interested in advancement, not event the Small Boat Handler or Qualified Seaman.

Most Sea Scout Ships today are either Blue or White ships. Any that we'd think of as "red" would be just Venturing crews with an aquatics focus.

Hope this helps.

I got an email forwarded to another list that said this and they were looking for his replacement. There is a list of a about a half dozen or so execs they are looking as candidates for his replacement.

For me, it will depend on how his replacement operates.

"Any chance NOAC will ever get to a big southern school?"

Thing is, NOAC needs a college with enough room at the time (early August) they hold NOAC.

This actually limits them to the number of school they COULD go to. Most of the southern schools that could are usually booked up with other things.

As I understand it, because of the number of people expected for the 2015 NOAC, they are basically limited to a VERY small handful of schools.

"Do councils normally have jamborees? "

No, they aren't supposed to.

BUT, many councils have COUNCIL CAMPOREES. (tho some may call them something else.

In my old council, we had 2 years of district camporees followed by one big council camporee.

"The term predates BS. So there's nothing stopping a council from using it."

NOT TRUE.

The National Council reserves the term "Jamboree" for National and International events. So local councils CAN'T call local events "jamboree" without National approval.

In Florida:

Scoutmasters Camporee in Broward County hit 54 years this year.

http://www.smcc.us/

Lincoln-Marti Camporee in Dade County hit 42 years in 2012.

http://carlosarboleya.com/camporie.html

Tampa Bay Regatta has been going on for several decades.

There is an invitational Boy Scout Canoe Race that's apparently been going on for decades as well.

(This message has been edited by emb021)

"To all those man scouts out there.......the Baden Powell Service Association Has Rovers which is man scouting."

Sorry, I don't view Rovers as "man scouting".

For me, "man scouting" is a derogatory term for older people (usually men) who are either trying to relive their childhood or their missed childhood thru being a scout leader (ie they are trying to play at being scouts like they were as kids or that they missed out of as kids). These are usually the people who go overboard with Wood Badge, etc. NOT all leaders are "man scouts".

Rovers, on the other hand, is a scouting program created by Baden-Powell for young adults, those 18 to 25. Its meant as a continuation of scouting for these young adults, NOT an attempt to recapture or continue childhood.

Hmmmm. I wasn't aware that WOSM was looking for a new Secretary-General. Looks like currently the position is vacant, which is unusual. (usually they would find a new one while they still have the current one in place).

Luc Panissod has been the S-G since March 2009 (after being acting S-G since Nov 2007, which is pretty long to be 'acting' anything). He replaced Eduardo Missoni after he was ousted because several NSO were dissatisfied with what he was doing.

The new position will start on Sept 2012, so I guess Luc is still in the position until then, and its a 5 year appointment (with possibility of renewal).

"Any youth organization that restricts their publications can only have something to hide. If your group is truly legitimate they should always be open to the public."

"Or maybe APO or any other fraternity? "

The only material APO keeps secret/private are our rituals. EVERYTHING else is available on our website: current National Bylaws (can the BSA say this?), our pledge manual, all other rules/policies, and recent issues of our National magazine, etc. Once a year in our National magazine, we provide the financials of the organization (again, can the BSA say this?)

I can't speak of what other greek letter orgs do.

Have to agree with Frank: PUH-LEEZE.

I am reminded of a patrol I ran into at a National Jamboree some 10 years or so back. (ie, think it was 2001). They used the round US Border Patrol patch as their patrol patch. Yes: "Border Patrol" was their name. Of course, at the time illegal immigration wasn't the hot button topic it is today.

Alpha Phi Omega, National Service Fraternity was established on the principles of the Scout Oath and Law.

Until 1967, one had to have been a scout to join.

Since its beginning its had a relationship with the BSA.

Is that what you are looking for?

The book you need is the Troop Committee Guide book.

Overall, the committee is a support groups, NOT a decision making or approving group. Troops are youth run. the youth make the decision as to what they do, the SM informs the committee, and they make sure the support is there.

So there should be no 'approving' of the activities of the troop by the committee.

There IS training for the Troop Committee. It can be taken on-line. Sounds like maybe you have committee members who need to be trained.

JFL49 is correct regarding beads and the participant neckerchief.

However, in regards to Sea Scout leaders wearing beads, its more then tradition. Its specifically mentioned in the uniform standards for some time that they are not to be worn.

"I agree... what OA National has made is a flag designed to be hung vertically, in front of a podium."

Again, that's not a flag. That's a banner. We've had that for the last few years.

"I had never considered that a West knot could be given in another person's name."

Many Lodges routinely do this. And have done so for years and years.

It allows lodges to met their obligations to their council and make a donation to the endowment AND gives them a recognition that can present to a member or two.