emb021

As others have pointed out, there are several standard parts to any set of bylaws (one word, no hyphen).

One defines who the members are, including their rights. (some groups can have different levels of membership, which can include non-voting members).

Another will define how the bylaws can be amended.

I should also point out that there should be a section on meetings, which will define what kind of meetings you have, who calls them AND what is quorum (which is the minimum number of members you need to hold an official meeting).

Nope. No office patch for any of the scouter reserve position.

This is because you aren't expected to wear a uniform. Its to keep your registration while you are away at college or the like. If you were being active enough that you'd need to wear a uniform, you shouldn't be using that registration.

jpstodwftexas- there is the thing with BSA uniform regs.

If you are looking for a rule that says "you can't wear x" or the like, you will probably not find it. Uniforming rules very rarely say you can't wear something. I think I have seen about a handful of uniforming rules of that form.

What you have to find is a rule that says its ok to wear something, or wear it in the location you'd like.

But the OA sash can NOT be worn on the sash. This is found in the Insignia Guide, and you can read it on-line.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/10L.aspx

This is the page on OA insignia. At the top with the sashes it says: "(OA sash is never worn on belt or with merit badge sash.)" This is one of the rare cases of a uniforming rule that says you can't do something. A second example is here as well, forbidding the wearing of 'legend sashes' on the back of the sashes.

So pretty definitive, I think.

You were misinformed as a youth. Get over it. Move on. And follow the rules.

Well, to add to the discussion.

What I'd like to see on the organizational side (not to ignore the program side, but not in this post), I would like to see the following:

* "professional" scouters who conduct themselves as employees of the organization and the volunteers. In other words, the volunteers should be in charge, not the professionals.

* transparency. We should know why things were done and decided, and by who. Tied to that, we (the members) should know who is in charge (who are the leaders at the different levels from National on down to district). This includes any committee chairs (or whatever you might want to call them). No secrecy. And tied to that, make it easier for volunteers to get on these groups. And member on this groups should be decided by the chairs, NOT the professionals.

* revamp the power structure of the BSA to put the power in the hands of the members. We need to look to member-run organizations, not companies.

* the "face" of the BSA needs to be in the hands of the volunteer leadership. This should be the National President (and maybe the National Commissioner), NOT the CSE. I would agree that having a Chief Scout who can do this (like the UK does) would be a good idea, and why I think Mike Rowe would be a great candidate for this.

Also on the Scouting Mag blog:

http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2012/06/07/boy-scouts-of-america-clarifies-its-membership-policy/?goback=%2Egmp_44601%2Egde_44601_member_122384682

My bad.

TLD was a week-long training course, the forerunner to TLT, JLTC, et al.

The competencies you mention are the 11 skills of leadership brought into the program from White Stag, that was also incorporated into the Wood Badge course of the same time (sometimes refered to as "leadership development Wood Badge" to differentiate it from the previous 'scoutcraft skills WB').

However, when they revamped 21CWB (and by extention NYLT), they dumped the White Stag concepts for Situational Leadership, Team Leadership, etc.

"Ya got special Jambo shoulder tabs so why not OA tabs? "

Barf.

I hate the idea of special shoulder tabs.

A jamboree patch is quite enough to show that you went to the Jamboree. You don't need special tabs.

Tabs shouldn't be used to show what event you went to. And having special OA tabs would conflict, as arrowmen could be wearing ANY of the current tabs.

"I still have not read an official OA Handbook and I do not have money to go order one as one was not provided when I returned to scout and OA "

Please.

Printed materials are not free (the OA has been pretty good about making much of their literature available to members as PDF downloads). And they aren't always expensive. That's no excuse not to have one. It only costs $3. I can't believe anyone would cry poverty over that cost. Most lodge flaps cost as much or more.

The OA has never just handed out handbooks to people. New members get one when they join, but the cost is included in the fees they pay to join. Older members are free to get the new one when they come out.

I have a large collection of OA handbooks and can tell you they have not changed largely since the 70s. (minor updates, but no major re-write like the BSHB)

From my collection of training literature.

Junior Leader Training Events 1958 revision, ©49 #3757 7M958

(AFAICR, this was the info on council-level junior leader training. It was intended that youth attend the National training courses at Schiff and Philmont, then return and teach this locally).

Scoutcraft Skills Instructor Training for JL #3757A 8M1263

(as name implies, a 60s course for junior leaders to train others in scoutcraft skills)

Junior Leader Training: a weekend course #36-513 May 1970

(I think this was the district-level training of the time)

Junior Leader Orientation Workshop 1984 printing, ©81 #6520

1987 printing, ©81 #6520A

(this was the district-level training of the time. dropped in the 90s)

Boy Scout Leader's Training Series:

How to Train JL in the Patrol Method ©56 #6506A 4M862

(material for the SMs in the 50s and early 60s to train their junior leaders)

Scoutmaster's JL Training Kit 1991 printing, ©90 #33422

2000 printing, ©00 #34306

Troop Leadership Training 2005 #34306A

©08 #34306

(these are/where the unit-level training. Before, you used info on the SMHB of the time)

Troop Leader Development Staff Guide #36-502/#6544 5M674

(TLD was the council-level weekend training in the 70s)

Junior Leader Training Conference Staff Guide 1987 printing, ©79 #6535

Junior Leader Training Conference Staff Guide 1995 printing, ©95 #34533

1999 printing, ©95 #34533A

National Youth Leadership Training 2005 #34490A

(TLT as a council-level training replaced TLD in the very late 80s. It actually combined TLD with All Out for Scouting/Brownsea Double-2. TLT was later renamed JLTC and morphed/replaced with NYLT)

Actually, I've been collecting info on this myself.

The Pine Tree website has some historical info on this: http://www.pinetreeweb.com/home4.htm

in the 70s it was Troop Leader Development at the Council level. It later became Troop Leader Training and then Junior Leader Training. Later called "JLTC" for Junior Leader Training Conference. In the 70s and 80 there was a weekend district course that was later dropped, called Junior Leader Orientation Workshop.

I'd have to go thru my data on the courses that used to used before the current NYLT.

BP-

I can't speak for any of the other adults on this thread, but I can say that despite what you want to believe, I believe and support the youth run lodge and Order.

All the lodges I've been associated with and have some involvement are youth run. In my current lodge, our lodge advisor has done a good job of ensuring that adult involvement is of the appropriate level, and I think all the other adults support her in this. Heck, at our most recent lodge elections (this past weekend, in fact), ALL the lodge adults left the dinning hall to go elsewhere to allow the lodge YOUTH the full freedom to conduct the elections, presided over by the outgoing Lodge Chief (who was aging out soon). This is how we've done the elections in years past as well.

So until you know us and our lodges, STFU.

clap clap clap

well said, johnponz

Will I will agree to a great extent of his issue with 'bad volunteers', I would also say there are also 'bad professionals' as well.

Further, one needs to be careful in determining who is the 'bad volunteer'. He spoke of: "Weve all come across volunteers who are blockers." Oftentimes other good volunteers find they need to push back against these 'blockers' (whether volunteer or paid), and often times THEY get labeled as being 'bad volunteers' when they aren't.

"Yup, although, one person, James E. West, has held both positions ... (he was named "Chief Scout" after he stepped down as CSE.)"

Two people actually.

West's successor Fretwell also was named Chief Scout after he retired as CSE.

We've only had 3 Chief Scouts of the BSA.

"If you actually cut your belt properly so "brass touching brass" it means if a waist gets bigger you have to buy a whole new belt...which is not thrifty."

Really?

When I was a scout and used the old web belt, I made sure to have about 6 inches of spare material. And I never had a problem with adjusting my belt to have "brass touching brass".

I never outgrew my old web belt. Used the same one for almost my entire time as a Boy Scout. I finally replaced it before I aged out with a Philmont leather belt.

Chief Scout Executive, NOT Chief Scout (yes, there is a difference).

Have you tried calling National Supply??

"Man you guys have some real issues don't you, lol."

I can't speak for others, but I don't have any issues.

"Listen the BSA has been changing their boy scout program to try to curtail the continued downward spiral in numbers and troops. The OA is in the same boat only it is sinking faster. If some new ideas, more promotion, less adult control and more youth control of the program are not infused into the OA and soon the OA will become an inactive, meaningless, and hollow symbol."

And what does any of this have to do with proper wear of insignia? Any insignia?

Am very much behind youth run. You don't know me, so don't act like you do.

Am very much a support of the OA **DOING STUFF** to promote itself. NOT in meaningless gestures like wearing a sash and NOTHING ELSE. Wearing a sash and doing nothing is else bragging. Its that "inactive, meaningless, and hollow symbol" you speak of. And a servant leader doesn't brag. He/she let's his actions speak.

BEST way for the OA to promote itself is NOT by having its members wear sashes at events. It's by having members DOING STUFF at events. Have the OA serve as staff for events, or run part of the program. In my council, we will have the OA do stuff like run booths, activities, man parking, have a grill, etc. THAT is what has impact.

"Oh, I think much of the thrust of this discussion has been about whether the guidelines for sash wear make sense, or should be changed in order to accomplish certain goals."

Well, I think they make sense and I see no reason to change them.

Again, we wear the sash at OA events AND when we are doing stuff AS Arrowmen.

I'm all for raising awareness of the Order, but I'd rather it be in conjunction with the Order DOING SOMETHING, not just wear the sash. That strikes me a little too much of showing off.

Have nothing against wearing the OA sash at other scouting events (or even in the community) so long as its in conjunction with the OA DOING STUFF at those events (providing meaningful service or the like), and the only ones who should be wearing it should be those involved in said service, not just because you happened to be at the event. (hint hint- may give some a reason to join in and help...)

"What is a "stripped" uniform."

In Wood Badge for decades, participants (and staff) had to wear a stripped uniform. This consisted of the uniform with ONLY:

US flag.

World Crest.

Epaulet loops (when they were created)

CSP

Number 1 (for gilwell troop 1)

Your WB Patrol medallion

Staff would wear their troop staff position patch.

NO OTHER PATCHES were worn. No flaps. No knots. No temporary insignia.

The idea was to put everyone on a level field. Since the participants filled the role of new scouts, they shouldn't have a lot of stuff.

"What happened to the "stripped" uniforms?"

That ended with the 21st Century Wood Badge.

Even the staff don't do stripped uniforms.

There were many who didn't like the stripped uniforms. One person I encountered on-line thought it was an 'insult' to his unit to have to wear a stripped uniform for Wood Badge or a Jamboree contingent uniform (ie with Jambo troop number instead of home) to Jamboree.

"You could go with the standard metallic scout slide, make your own, or start wood badge and go with a wood badge slide."

The Wood Badge woggle (slide) should only be worn with the WB neckerchief.

But nothing prevents you from making a turk's head knot with other materials.

Just go find colored paracord. You can order it off of Amazon. I know of units that make up slides with it and sell them as fundraisers or give them away as friendship gifts.

"I just ironed on my Silver Beaver Knot yesterday."

No scout patch is an 'iron on', unless you use other materials to do so.

"Don't forget the "youth religious award knot". That knot is also worn on leaders uniforms. And it doesn't have to be a Scout religious award."

"*** What does that mean? (Scout religious award) "

The youth religious award need not have been earned as a scout. The awards can be earned by ANY youth. So if earned, the knot can be worn. This is what allowed female scouters to wear that knot if they earned the awards as girl scouts or outside venturing.

The hat you are referring to is known as the overseas cap or garrison cap.

Personally, I don't care for them because they don't keep the sun off the face/head, and the color (at least the boy scout one) does not match the current colors being used.

Actually, 1-2 people I've met.

Realize that this group is nation-wide, so unless we get lucky and bump into someone at larger events (OA Section events, Jamboree, NOAC) oftentimes people aren't even from the same council.