emb021

"I went to Philmont this summer, had a great time, but is was not what I would call a "mountain top" experience, and that was even with climbing Baldy up the gully trail.

Perhaps its because I have backpacked the Grand Canyon, Glacier National Park, Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons. I have been west before and Philmont looks like the west. Its great and I had a great time but I have other things I want to experience as well. "

I'm from Florida. Getting any interest in attending Sea Base is near impossible because going to the Keys is no big deal. South Florida Council has a camp there, plus there are other camps (several state parks and KOA, etc).

For us, Philmont and Northern Tier is a big draw.

On the flip side, I've heard that councils near Philmont get no interest in going there...

There is a reason National did a Summit Shakedown event this past summer...

"Sashes can get in the way on campouts just doing the simply thing. They are saved for formal ceremonies which more Scout see when they hit the higher Star and Life rank and show up at another's Eagle Court of Honor."

Uh, sashes should really ONLY be worn at formal occasions, not a meetings, campouts or other activities. I find it silly when I see a scout wearing his sash at NOAC or an OA Section Conference.

Too much of a risk of loosing it, and considering the cost of merit badges, a poor chose.

More like the final step.

I noticed it too.

They had already taken away the Venture/Varsity pins and letter from the Venture Patrol (now only the Varsity Scout Team can earn these, and they are listed in the book with the VS Team and NOT with the Boy Scouts). And never made a Venture Patrol Leader patch (they did have a Venture Crew Leader patch and a ASM-Venture patch when it was called the Venture Crew).

I guess if they dropped mention of this in the SMHB and such, that would prove it.

No.

Its a 1965 TV series. They later made 2 movies of it ("Thunderbirds are Go" and "Thunderbirds 6"). Let's forget the recent live action version.

Best clip of the opening theme:

Or if you just want the theme:

F.A.B.

No.

Lone Scouting is strictly Cub Scouting & Boy Scouting.

Since I know what councils and camp(s) Tokala is speaking of, I also recall the stories of another large camp in our state that was pushed to be used a certain way and wasn't, again by bean counters and not program people.

This is what happens when the wrong people have the power in an organization.

Depends on what you count as event.

Is a one day training event an 'event'.

Most annual events around here:

* Camporee

* Scout Show

* University of Scouting (major one day or weekend training event)

* Advancement/Merit Badge event (many times a weekend event)

What else?

Palm Beach County got flooded. Broward got hit hard, as did Dade. Several thousands in each county without power.

But all you heard about was Tampa (early on) and now NO.

Funny thing is, the bulk of the rain came on Monday. We got 2-3x times the amount of rain on Monday as on Sunday when we were under a TS Warning.

My parents in Naples (Collier), much closer to the story, didn't have much wind and rain as us. Its all about those feeder bands. They hit us going east to west on Sunday, then we seem to have a continuous one on Monday running south to north dumping more rain on us.

Tampa got a lot of press because the earlier predictions had Isaac skirting the west coast of Florida real close to Tampa.

Instead, it's moved out more into the Gulf, now aimed at NO.

And its been Southeast Florida that seems to have the worse of the storm so far, as we are getting flooded here with outlying bands from Isaac, even tho the center is even farther away then it was on Sunday. But we get ignored for the bigger story of NO and a possible repeat of Katrina.

I think some of the concern is that the focus would move from the youth to the adults, at the expense of the adults.

I collect Scouting magazines, and in the post war period there were several articles against scouters earning Eagle. It seems to be that in the early days, it was seen as a good idea, as the Scoutmasters would have a better appreciation of what the scout had to do, but by the post war period, when many scouters now could have earned Eagle as a youth, that adults doing so might distract the adults from doing THEIR job of supporting the youth.

So I think if we make sure that the program is PRIMARILY about/for the youth, we are ok.

The National Youth Leadership Society was rolled out in 2009.

It actually started out as a National Venturing Leadership Society, until some people stuck their hands in it, and opening it up to Boy Scouts. After all, can't have something for Venturers that Boy Scouts can't have, right?

BTW, many councils have scholarships for NYLT. Many troops will usually pay for their scouts going. Nothing stopping councils for having scholarships for NAYLE. Lodges will often cover some of the cost for NLS.

Just because your council doesn't, doesn't mean others don't.

Most units I know do their's in late August or so, after the Council Program Kickoffs when the council calenders for the coming year are released. Dates are set for coming year. Having the council calender is important to be able to work in those dates with the units.

This is usually done as a retreat with the PLC. Could be a weekend retreat or a day-long affair. ILST is usually done as part of this.

the whole troop is not involved. I've never heard of parents being involved.

"Whatever you decide, I suggest you do so in writing. Do it in two sections: one that defines your uniform (or declares that your crew does not have a uni) and another that defines when it should be worn."

I would suggest something slightly different.

Have the youth work this out.

Yes, it should be down in writing. Best put it in your crew's Standing Rules (or policies/procedures document).

Something like:

Our crew uniform is xxx.

The Crew uniform shall be worn xxx.

(nothing wrong with defining a 'class a' and 'class b'. I've seen many crews do something similar to troops. They wear the forest green venturing shirt at more formal occasions, and have a t-shirt for activities stuff. Then the 'when to wear' could be something like a troop might have: forest green shirt at meetings and more formal occasions (training events or the like), t-shirt at activities and events. Also set down who decides when one or the other is used- ideally the officers or the president)

"At the top of the photo, there is a dark green Venturing uniform shirt which you can barely see. The patches on it almost seem to be floating in midair, but when I turned up the brightness on my monitor, I could see the color in the shirt. It has a commissioner or professional patch on the sleeve. (Is that right, on a Venturing shirt?)"

Sure.

If you have a unit commissioner who just does Venturing Crews, or an ADC-Venturing or ACC-Venturing (YES, they do exist), they would wear the green Venturing shirt.

If you have a professional who mainly does Venturing, they'd wear it as well.

qwazse- the thing about 'crew committees' (ie, the groups of Venturers within the crew) is that they are NOT like patrols in any way. This is something that people who do NOT understand how committees within an organization work have a hard time understanding.

Committees first off fall into one of 2 groups or type: STANDING committees (ie permanent committees) and SELECT committees (ie ad hoc or short-term committees).

Standing committees are defined in the bylaws, and are usually chaired by an officer. They deal with big, on-going issues/matters within the group: program, activities, fundraising, pr/recruitement, etc.

Select committees are formed as needed. They can be sub-committees of a standing committee. A select committee may be formed to run an open-house event, or organize the annual awards banquet or the like.

Committees can be as large or small as needed. You can have a one person committee or a 20 person committee. Committees are great, because they can met outside of the organization meeting to discuss and decide on things, then bring things back to the org meeting for a final decision. This can mean a lot of time saved in the org meeting.

Also, people can be involved in several committees as their interests are. AND this helps insure that everyone is engaged in the running of the organization NOT JUST THE OFFICERS.

Patrols, frankly, don't do much of this. On a campout, certain patrols may be assigned certain tasks, but its not the same thing.

Well, here is how things are done in another organization, Toastmasters.

Believe it or not, in Toastmasters we have an educational program with awards that need to be signed off on.

Except for one award, all of them can (and we highly encourage) that they be submitted on-line. (alternate is to send in by either mail or fax, the signed award application, which includes info on the projects completed).

Toastmasters has an on-line system which club officers can access. Here the officers submit applications for new members, pay dues, and submit awards. Officers can't submit awards for themselves.

Doing so is fairly easy, and its more reliable then mail or fax. The member gets an email stating the award has been submitted, and they can always check their on-line profile for all their awards earned.

The system is also supposed to check to ensure everything has been completed, in cases of prerequisites. (for instance, if you can't get award X until you've done Y, it checks to make sure you've done Y).

Be nice if the BSA has something like this, at least to handle most ranks and merit badges.

Have to agree with BadenP's posting.

For me, #4 is really important, and a point that many people can't grasp. I know when Venturing was "rolled out" in 1998, many people could not grasp the idea of crews specializing in something. The reaction I got from people online was "but packs and troops don't do that". My response was: yeah. But Venturing crews are not packs or troops. For those of us who had been involved in Exploring, we understood the idea of units specializing, as Exploring has been doing that for decades. We were used to the various career posts, plus high adventure, church youth group, indian lore, etc. The problem, as I saw it, was that people had little idea of Exploring beyond career awareness posts (if that), so to them Venturing was this new and mysterious program. Whereas with many of us, it was just a continuation of Exploring with a few new twists.

The point about Crews NOT BEING TROOPS is important. Several of us note that the big mistake is viewing Venturing as "older boy scouts with girls" (OBSWG). Something I many times point out when I do VLST is that the worse Boy Scout leader is the former Cub Scout Leader who tries to run a troop like a pack (there is even a term for that: Webelos III). Since many in the audience are or where Boy Scout leaders, they 'get' that point. Then I follow that up with telling them the worse Venturing leader is the former Boy Scout leader who tries to run the Crew like a Troop. Hopefully most get it at that point.

(Aside- its funny when I make mention of "Webelos III" [and I'm not the only one who uses that term], I get people getting annoyed and saying "there's no such thing!". Well, yeah, that's kind of the point. Officially, there is no such thing as "Webelos III". The term is applied to Boy Scout leaders who try to run the the troop like a pack. A continuation of Webelos: hence "Webelos III".)

Again, well said, pilapeu539

However, "The one and only purpose of adults in the OA is to support a youth run program. This is now the main criteria for new adult membership."

Actually, this has been the main criteria for new adult membership for a very long time. Sadly, some adults don't get that.

If you have a lodge adviser and group of adult advisers who understand it, they can serve as a great resource for the youth officers in fulfilling the purpose of the lodge. If you don't, then there will be problems. I've been fortunate that the lodges I've been involved with have had the right kind of adults as advisers.

pilapeu539, well said.

"It has always been my understanding that the only patch one can wear on the red shirt jac is a single large patch on the back. I have seen 50 miler patches, OA patches of a style now prohibited, and other things. I have a 1957 Jamboree patch on mine. It gets an occasional comment. And yes, I am one of the old guys. "

Nope.

Read the Insignia Guide.

You are allowed:

* ONE back patch. This can be the OA one, or a National Jamboree or High Adventure patch, what have you. (BTW, the old OA logo is NOT prohibited).

* ONE high adventure pocket patch on the right pocket.

* ONE special high adventure patch above the left pocket (this is the philmont bull OR Northern Tier Loon OR Sea Base conch or shark patch).

* Universal BSA logo OR program patch (ie Venturing, etc) on the left pocket.

So you are actually allowed 4 patched.

But you shouldn't turn it into a patch jacket or try to match the uniform (no flag on the sleeve, no knots, etc)

BadenP writes:

"In my experience with Venturing for almost 12 years now the problems in getting it off the ground has been a total lack of understanding of what the program is SUPPOSED to be based on their own literature by both National and Council employees. In addition the disjointed and watered down training given on all levels to Venturing advisors and youth officers. IMO how can any revision coming out of National, who doesn't understand the program in the first place, be of any real value to those of us in the field who have been delivering the program."

I'd have to agree with this. I know I've spent a lot of time keeping the VLST presentation up to date for use by myself and others, and spent time writing up information for use in a revision of this. I sent this to National with nothing happening. Kind of frustrating and disconcerting. I am also not too pleased with how youth training has been dealt with in Venturing. I spoken often on this matter, and this was one of the reasons I started the "Leadership Notes" series over on the Venturinglist on Yahoo Groups.

"At least in my council we have already solved the problem and ALL our crews are growing, we have a very active and well organized training programs, an extremely efficent VOA, a solid calendar of intercrew activities that always fill up quickly. Our SE is ecstatic with the results and gives us all the support we need. We continually have adult crew leaders and youth leaders from outside our council contacting us to come to our trainings and some of the activities.

The bottom line qwasze is that we have already discovered the secret for having a VERY sucessful Venturing program in our council with crew specialities from all areas. I will be interested to see the recommendations from National, but they have had almost 14 years to correct things and have failed miserably. So excuse me if I am not overly excited or optimistic about their findings."

And this is something I've been struggling for years to try to achieve in the councils I am involved in. Its difficult when you get little or no support from others. I have to work to convince youth and adults to buy in to what I am doing (which can take time), and worse are those who work against me or stab me in the back for their own benefit.

Anything written up on what your council has done such that others can duplicate it?

"I kinda liked my skill awards, especially the early versions that were made of heavier metal. They got all scratched up over the years, camping and playing british bulldog at meetings. When I got my Philmont belt, that's when I retired the SAs"

Kind of the same for me.

I also liked how there were other metal belt loops made around the same time. Once for National Jamboree, NOACs, World Jamborees, Regions, and some councils (and lodges) had their own made for various things.

"I agree that OA activities and visibility vary significantly from lodge to lodge. I, too, wish my lodge was more visible and more integrated into council, district and unit activities. However, I recognize that the lodge is what it is because the Scout Executive is the Supreme Chief of the Fire. If she only sees the lodge as "free labor for BSA to set up/take down summer camp at council scout camps", then that what the it be. If he delegates all responsibility to the staff advisor, then it's the staff advisor's vision that shapes the lodge. Anyone agree with me?"

No.

What I see happening in many lodges is due to the vision of the youth and the volunteer lodge advisor. Seldom does the SE or their delegated staff advisor impose themselves on lodges.

I've seen lodges that were treated like that, but turned it around due to the hardwork of the youth and their adult advisors.