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I have never been a unit commissioner, though I expect to do that some day. Like most volunteer operations, you can put a lot or a little into being a commissioner. An ineffective commissioner is less obvious than an ineffective scoutmaster. An effective commissioner is a great value to the program. Regrettably I have to say that most unit commissioners I have met don't seem to be very active.

Most troops worth their salt will want to have representatives there for the crossover ceremony. I also would go with the suggestion of having all the boys do it, even if they are not going on.

Here are some more thoughts about personal gear and packing. After my last expedition I am going to set a limit on the cubic volume of gear taken by individuals. Some people took along tents that were overly large and exceeded our needs. It was also difficult to find clear ground to pitch those larger tents. Limit tents to no more than three man tents and make sure that all slots are used. Personal gear and tents should be packed in duffel bags lined with trashbags as noted above, or in dry bags, depending on conditions. Clothing needs to be appropriate for the climate and season. However, even in the coldest weather everyone was quite comfortable in either shorts of swim suits while paddling. Upper body clothing should include a minimum of a t shirt while paddling. Do not overdress while underway. You will be working hard, if on flatwater, and will not need extra layers. Extra layers can become a danger if you end up in the water. Wearing PFDs is mandatory. I have personally had a near death experience where the PFD saved me. If you are traveling in rainy weather, do not allow people to paddle while wearing a pancho. If you end up in the water wearing a pancho, you will be severely hindered to say the least. Sunblock, lipbalm with sun protection, broad brimmed hats with chin straps, and sunglasses are strongly advised. Eyeglasses need to be secure. Personal items such as wallets need to be put in their own ziplock bags in your pockets, or possibly a fanny pack secured to a thwart. Pack and plan as if you are going to dunk yourself and all your gear. Secure gear to the canoe as much as possible. Gear that is properly sealed will float of its own accord for a long time, so actual loss of gear is rare. If there is any current (assuming you are going downstream) you want to load the canoe to trim the bow down somewhat. This is difficult with heavy dads in the stern and lightweight boys in the bow, but it makes a difference. I always put the heaviest gear between the bow seat and the midship thwart, and up under the bow deck if possible. If you are on a lake going into a wind you want to trim the bow down. If the wind is coming from behind trim the stern down. You want to pack the gear so that it does not project above the canoe and catch the wind. Sometimes this unavoidable.

I suggest calling the people running the camp and clarifying with them what they mean. Hiking merit badge cannot be completed in an ordinary summer camp session of one week. Boys may be able to start the merit badge there, but not finish it there. I suggest focusing on eagle required badges that can be completed in the session. We now record "miles hiked" in troopmaster for each boy so as not to lose track of this information, recognizing that it probably will take more than one year to complete all the requirements.

As previously requested, here are some more thoughts, this time on food. One of the nice things about canoe camping is that you have the possibility of moving beyond dehydrated food. You may find your route takes you past marinas or other opportunities to buy ice for an ice chest, and ice cream as an enroute treat. On many of the flatwater expeditions I have been involved with we have taken ice chests and fresh foods. This challenges the boys' food preparation and planning skills, and frankly, takes up time at the end of the day, helping keep people busy and out of trouble. With good planning one can eat very well on a float trip down a river. If you are having to portage between lakes, then you will want to revert to a backpacking mode of thinking. If you can legally build a campfire you need to check into fuel availability along the route. Even if you have to take your own wood, you probably will have the capacity to carry it in your canoes. You may need, or simply want, to use a fire pan to teach leave no trace principles. If you can build a fire, then this is a good opportunity to simply do foil cooking with fresh ingredients. You can also make a makeshift dutch oven out of two pans and cook things like corn bread, cobblers, etc. Or you may simply want to haul a dutch oven along. When we have planned cooking over a fire we usually take charcoal along for this purpose - more heat output for the bulk and weight. If you carry charcoal, wrap it in an extra trash bag. Spontaneous combustion is possible with wet charcoal. I have never been bothered by critters on a canoe trip, but you do need to consider food storage if there are bears or similar intrusive beasts along your route. You may not have trees available for bear bags, so you may want to use bear cannisters. Clearly water availability is not a problem, but you need to plan on filtering or treating your water, and taking along enough collapsible water storage capacity. Wish I was going with you.

The reason I asked how much money was involved is that you may not want to make a stink over a relatively small amount. $500 is worth arguing about. $10 is not worth arguing about. Principles are important and worth fighting for, but some principles are more important than others. Another principle is determining if an argument is worth the cost in emotion and energy expended. One should choose one's arguments wisely. This is after all only about money. This is not a safety issue, or even a controversy over advancement. Good luck. I was going to suggest that you could buy us all a round when you prevail, but that would have to be limited to soda pop, juice, lemonade, or water.

Roundtables are useful and important, but the quality of the programs is highly variable. I like the idea of having the troops put on presentations. At least it spreads the burden around a bit.

With boys you have to be sure that they have the physical strength and weight to control any machine you may consider letting them use. Almost anybody can handle a power drill, and the potential for injury and damage are relatively slight. A rotary saw is another matter however.

As noted above, the rules do not prohibit parents from signing off on their own boy's merit badges. Also, as noted in an earlier post, many units I know seek to minimize this practice, particularly where eagle required badges are concerned. This isn't always feasible since some merit badges really do have serious requirments for a merit badge counselor to be qualified, e.g. lifesaving merit badge. As Bob White notes, few units really check the credentials of their MB counselors as this is a district function. I don't think many districts do it either.

I have led many flat water canoe expeditions, but have no real whitewater experience. I can only advise from the experience that I have. These are a few thoughts off the top of my head. Canoe camping is more akin to car camping, in that you are less restricted in what you can carry compared to backpacking. The first issue is the equipment you will be using. Make sure you know the load capacity of the canoes you will be using. You need to allow at least 8 inches of freeboard to ensure safety. Heavy canoes, such as canoes made of fiberglass have flotation tanks to keep them afloat when swamped, but do not have anywhere near the carrying capacity of other types. The second issue is the experience and training of your people. While it is safe to take inexperienced paddlers on an expedition in mild conditions, you need to understand what they are capable of in the conditions you expect. If there is any real whitewater involved, then everybody should have some training and experience. Do not allow the scouts to buddy up by themselves, but match inexperienced paddlers with more experienced paddlers. Are you going through an area surrounded by private land or public lands? Do you have fixed destinations at designated camp sites, or plan to select sites as you go along? I believe that in most states, private land owners do not own the land between the river banks. Therefore many canoe campers camp on sand and gravel bars to avoid trespass issues. You need to find out about this and secure the necessary permissions and/or reservations. You need to think about how you will pack your gear. If this is truly flatwater in mild conditions it is generally sufficient to used duffel bags lined with trash bags secured with ties. Otherwise you will need dry bags. Are you getting your craft through an outfitter? Is the outfitter providing guides? Are guides necessary or required? Is the outfitter providing shuttle service? If you are not using an outfitter how will you transport your craft and provide shuttles? Be sure to read the Guide to Safe Scouting section on water activities. There are some very specific requirements for these types of trips. How will you deal with human waste? In some places the use of composting portable potties is required. If you are camping on sand bars you can't just dig a hole and pollute the river. What are the conditions of the river you are going to travel? Are there frequent and unpredictable changes in flow and stage? Are there dams that need to be portaged? Low head dams can be very dangerous and you need to know if there are any, where they are, and how they are marked. What other kind of river traffic can be expected? Do your people know how to contend with wakes kicked up by power boats? There are publications on canoe camping. The scout Field Guide has a chapter on this. There is also a web site. I forget the link, but just searh "canoe camping" and you will probably find it. This site has a lot of useful information.

It has always been my understanding that there are no general restrictions on adults wearing neckerchiefs. Most adult leaders I know wear the same neckerchief as worn by the scouts in their units. As noted above, wearing no neckerchief is acceptable, but not required.

Oops. I believe the correct link is nationalreview.com

It has always been my understanding that the earlier post on the catholic church's official position on homosexuality is correct. That is, believing oneself to be a homosexual or having what is commonly called a homosexual orientation, is not by itself a sin. Engaging in homosexual acts, whether one is priest, sister, brother or lay, would be regarded to be a sin. Homosexuality in the clergy is a real problem for the catholic church right now. The overwhelming majority of youth molested by priests were boys, not girls. One of the ironies is that gay activists who have been hostile to the church are now defending the ordination of homosexual priests. Historically the homosexual community has been very hostile to the catholic church. Several years ago, one gay group of activists disrupted a mass at St. Patrick's cathedral in New York and went so far as to desecrate the communion hosts in front of the entire assembly. Great way to make friends and influence people.

ScoutParent How much money is involved?

As long as we are on the subject of music, would playing the pipes qualify for meeting requirement 3© for the Music merit badge? Who would be qualified to judge? Actually my wife is quite fond of bagpipes too. It provides me with lots of opportunities to tease her.

I remember using a Baker tent at the 1957 Jamboree at Valley Forge, but I never knew why they were called Baker tents. Does anybody know where this name came from?

Hope you have better luck with your new troop.

Congratulations to your son, you, and your family. The Scots have made more than their share of contributions to Western Civilization (Hume, Adam Smith, etc.) but you have to wonder about a people who consider bagpipes to be musical instruments and Haggis to be food for humans.

For those who may wish to read more on this scandal, I recommend a recent article in National Review online. The article is by Rod Dreher and is entitled "The Gay Question." It was posted on April 22, 2002. Go to www.natinalreview.com and look it up.

I too am a more or less lapsed Catholic, also for reasons that have nothing to do with this issue. I think this has become another Media Hobby Horse to a certain extent. The actual number of pedophile priests probably is no larger than the proportion in the population as a whole, and perhaps less. The scandal is not the fact that some priests engaged in this behavior. Some of this has always happened and will happen in the future. The scandal is the response of the hierarchy in some parts of the country, most notably Boston. I hope the Pope demotes Cardinal Law, but I don't expect it. Churches of all varieties have difficulties dealing with these types of scandals, and there is always the tendency of the clergy to circle the wagons. This is particularly true in the Roman Catholic Church. The behavior of the hierarchy in some dioceses is truly shameful. The church will survive however. The protestant evangelical movement has survived Jimmy Swaggert, et al. Scouting could indirectly benefit from this scandal as a counter example of how to do things right. Scouting has always recognized this threat and has sound policies in place. The lesson for the public is to wake up to this reality and stop kidding itself.

Coming back somewhat to the original issue of this thread, retaining older scouts is difficult. If the program is exciting, they are more likely to stick around. Concerning Eagle Scouts, I can't speak about college admissions, but I can speak somewhat about seeking employment. Over the last eight years I interviewed a great many new college graduates. I was always interested in what these young people had done in addition to studying, and personally had more interest in Eagles than anybody else directly involved in the recruitment. Of course this is the San Francisco Bay Area, and scouts are clearly politically incorrect. I even observed a few negative reactions towards young Eagles here. Sad but true. I suspect that how the Eagle is viewed varies by region and the type of institution involved. I do like Mike Long's point however. Decorating the resume is important for getting the interview, but the skills and self confidence show up in the interview and subsequent performance. This is the correct response to youth who question the value of the Eagle.

johnmbowen makes a very good point. Most outfitters love to deal with scouts and will make various accomodations, including discounts. It is not necessary to own all the expensive gear to have a good high adventure program. There are some things I personally would continue to "buy" such as whitewater rafting expertise. Nobody that I personally know in this area, self included, possesses that particular expertise, and if one is going to do rafting at all, one has to go with one of the numerous rafting companies that operate in California. We do own our own ropes, harnesses, and climbing helmets, although the council is only now getting climbing training organized.

Useful information.

Bob, If no adults are present at a patrol event such as a bike hike, then no tour permit is required? Is this what you are saying? Is the presence of adults one of the governing factors as to whether a tour permit is required at all? Doesn't this go against the need for supervision as one of the basic tenets of Safe Scouting? I am no fan of unnecessary paperwork, but if the tour permit concept is one of the basic risk management tools of scouting, it seems to me that there ought to be better clarity about these kinds of things. Your insights are appreciated.

The specific activity that triggered this thread involved bicycles. Last spring a group of scouts and adult leaders in our troop undertook some local cycling trips that began and ended in our town. Transportation to and from the event was the scout's, and the scout's own parents', responsbility. No automobiles were used in the course of the activity itself. Given the hazardous nature of cycling, I thought the adult in charge was taking a chance in not getting a tour permit. He put not only himself at risk, but also all of the other adults participating, the unit leadership, the CO, etc. etc. Bob White, Concerning patrol activities, if I were accompanying a patrol as an adult on a day hike for example, while a tour permit may not be required, I think that I would still want one. You are correct about local policies differing. This is where the confusion comes in. For example, when a youth submits his eagle package to the district advancement committee here for his BOR, he must include the approved tour permit for the service project.