Eamonn

Hi A forum "Lurker" sent me the flyer (with prices ) for the new uniform. If you send me an e-mail via PM I do my best to forward it to you. Eamonn.

Have to admit that I really haven't given the good old POR much thought since I crossed the pond. I did a little while back visit the UK Scouts site to see if the "Outlander Promise" was still around!! Having a rule book at hand is not a bad thing. I'm not sure if it in any way keeps or prevents people who by nature break rules from breaking them? I do at times think that here in the USA we do tend to be guilty of "Over-Thinking" Or trying to read more into something. At times this becomes out of hand. Of course it's been nearly 25 years since I crossed the pond and maybe things have changed? I have visited several other Countries and seen how they do things. While not wanting to sound in any way political. Scouting here in the USA does seem to be more conservative than in other countries. A few weeks back a very good pal of mine who lives in the UK but is moving to Utah to get married (He is a member of the LDS Church) was complaining (More of a rant than a complaint) about how since the changes in the UK things are not the same and to his way of thinking are not as good. I think the fact that the new District Commissioner for the District he is in, is openly gay had a lot to do with it!! He said that he can't wait to get involved with the BSA and went on to say that "Eagle is where it's at"!! Not sure if I really understand that!! Back in the days when I was Scouting in the UK. A time long before I ever heard mention of Vision and Mission statements or maybe they just weren't trendy at that time? If someone asked me the purpose of Scouting? I was able to give them the book answer: "The Purpose of Scouting is the physical, mental and spiritual development of the young person to help them become a worth while member of society" I kinda think everyone knew this, but it wasn't front and center when it came to running a Troop (Or other section) Kids who joined did of course learn the Scout Promise (No not Oath) and the Scout Law. But I think we spent more time doing things to make the kids understand this than talking about it. There were no BOR. No asking if Scout Spirit was in play. I'm not saying one way is better or worse than the other. For me it became a case of "When in Rome..." A lot of things were very different. I was talking with SE who had worked for the Boy Scouts of New Zealand, he said that it seemed to him that a lot of New Zealand Scouter's seemed to be looking at American Scouting and the Eagle Scout rank as maybe being better than the New Zealand Queen's Scout Award (I don't know if they still use that or not?) I spent some time in Sweden, Norway and a lot of time in Holland. While I never really got involved in the organization or how things were run (That is what their rules and regulations were /are.) It did seem that Scouting was a lot more relaxed and maybe activity based than it is here in the USA. The BSA does spent a lot more on Scouting than just about any other country I know of. The BSA does seem to have a lot more adults involved in Scouting than most other places I know of. I happen to think that when it comes to publications and Scouting material the BSA is really good, but with the web maybe things else where are catching up? I do like the UK Scout web sites and the material that is available there. I'm not sure but I do feel the decline in membership is acting as a wake up call to the BSA. I'm also not sure how the BSA will react? Some people do seem to want to turn the clock back and return to the ways that things were once done, while others seem to want more of a "Youth Club" type organization. My big hope is that someone somewhere does take the time to see that real leadership is best learned by doing and not by sitting around talking about different styles. I'm all for the Scout Oath and Law, but bashing a little fellow over the head because he acted like a kid and not like some sort of Angelic Boy Scout will only drive more youth away. No kid ever joined Scouts for a character overhaul, they join for the fun and adventure. We the adults do need to know how to lead, but we also need the outdoor skills to make the fun and adventure happen. Seems to me that for some reason a lot of the adults I see just don't have these skills and are not being taught them. This then becomes a catch 22, the Scouts they lead who hopefully will become the next generation of adult leaders are not going to have the skills and so i goes on. There is or should be a balance. I do hope we somehow manage to find it. Eamonn

(Posted very much with tongue in cheek) Wow -You Americans!! First you complain about a little tax on your tea!! Now it's your pop-corn!! Are you ever happy? OK -That was a joke. My answer to the question: "Where does the money stop and Scouting begins?" Scouting starts with you, me and all the other volunteers. Without us and of course the youth there is no Scouting. What a unit does or doesn't do is very much in the hands of the unit. I think we would all agree that along with the "Good Stuff" found in the vision and mission statements, we all want each and every youth member to get as much as he or she can from the program, we really like to see kids having fun, trying new things and taking on new challenges. Sometimes we can within a unit provide all of this. Sometimes there are activities that the youth want to do and we need the help of others. Yes! Even the Council!! My thinking is that we need to keep an open mind. I have had the misfortune to run into several adults who have allowed their own personal opinions of the Council to get in the way of providing a better program for the youth they serve. When the strong opinions of the adults get in the way of serving the youth? Something is out of whack! Back when I was a CM, like Barry I never spent much time dwelling on what others might have wanted us to do. We were happy to look at what was offered and decide if it was something that the Scouts wanted to do and who could do the best job of doing it. We sold pop-corn, not because I like pop-corn (I don't!!) Not because the Council "Said so". We sold it because it worked well for us. If it hadn't I would have been OK with us not selling it. When it came to Council ran resident camps, I was happy to present and provide all the information to all the parents. Being as these were Council ran activities there really was no need for me or anyone from the Pack Leadership team to attend. Of course if my son was going? I was never very far behind. To be very honest I tend to think all this talk about kids selling pop-corn and fund raising is a load of bunk (My own opinion!) The kids don't really sell the parents do all the work. While I was lucky in that I found a way of selling pop-corn by the case and My kid was recognized as being a Top Seller (He won a mountain bike and a campership!!) Not every parent was that lucky. To be honest if I hadn't been in business I think our sales wouldn't amount to much (My family is all in places outside of the USA, Her Who Must Be Obeyed had parents who were both only children and she has a brother who is a twit.) As OJ got older (In Boy Scouts) he was busy and I was busy so I was far happier just writing the check and not selling anything! The Pack budget was set by the Pack Committee with input from the Pack leaders. Council activities were never included. After the budget was set an amount of money (I think it was about $65.00)was set this became the Pack Dues. We didn't care where the $65.00 came from!! Parents were free to write a check, pay in installments or fund raise or do both. Any money over the $65.00 could be used (If it was from money raised in the name of the Pack) for Scouting activities. At that time our Council Cub Camping program was outstanding and we had nearly all the Scouts attending resident camps and Parent and Son Camps. I dislike fund raising so we had two frozen Pizza Sales a year and the pop-corn sale. We did what we at that time thought was best for the kids in the pack. We used the Council to help us meet that end. If we had felt that we didn't need the help and support of the Council, I think we would have been just as happy to walk away and do our own thing. I do very firmly believe that Parents are willing to pay the cost of a quality program and would sooner hand over their hard earned cash to a program that really holds the intrest of their son than not pay and have a son who is not on the receiving end of a quality program. Ea.

I'm not very good at remembering dates! So please forgive me. Back in 1999 (I think!) I was a Staffer for the old course. Everyone at that time seemed keen to find out what the new course was going to be like. I seem to remember that there was some sort of a delay in getting the new course up and running. When it did get off the ground, the fellow who had been SPL for the 1999 course was the SM for the new course. I don't know how he went about selecting the Staff. I was invited to serve, but he also invited five guys who had served as SM for the old course. Of course, I think it was only human nature that along the way comparisons were made between the old and the new. While some people were willing to give the course their best shot, sadly some seen it as the end of Scouting and just really didn't get it. I served as a Troop Guide. I had never taken this then new course and in fact had only received the syllabus and guide a few weeks before the development weekend started. The course went well and the participants seemed happy. Being as our Council belongs to a Wood Badge Cluster, two years later it fell on us to host the next course, in fact the cluster felt that with the course being open to so many more people that we should go from one course a year to two course a year. While there never was any real list of who would be the next SM, there was a unwritten understanding of who would be next. It wasn't me!! Our Council Wood Badge coordinator, who had served as Council Training Chair before me, felt that the fellow who had kinda, sorta been groomed to be the next SM, didn't seem to get it?? So he asked me!! I did talk with the fellow who has been passed over. While he really wasn't very happy I think he understood why he was being skipped. Of course now it fell on me to select the staff I wanted. I had a staff of 26. Two had taken the 21st Century course and twenty had never ever staffed a course!! I was told I was nuts!! Sadly I did have to ask two people to step down. Mainly because they for some reason just didn't want to follow the syllabus. I like to think that I spent a lot of time reading and re-reading the syllabus, till I had a good understanding of what it was about and where it was going. I did very much become a real stick in the mud about following the syllabus. In part because at the Course Directors Conference I made a promise to do so. When the course was over I think the participants seemed to get a lot more from the course I directed with a bunch of newbies than the course that was loaded with "4 Bead-ers"!! I'm not really sold on the idea that you have to have taken the course in order to be able to staff it. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but at the end of the day the best people to do the job are the people who are the best Presenters. I know that I'm sticking my neck out!! But I do kinda wish that when the course changed, it had been renamed and maybe the old Wood Badge course had been allowed to die. I really think the play acting of being Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts and Venturers gets in the way. I wouldn't be upset if the critters went bye-by as well. The two courses are very different. While at one time people who had taken the old course were not invited to attend the 21st Century, this has now changed. Anyone who did attend the old course and has the time and can spare a couple of hundred dollars should maybe think about attending the new course. They would need to go with an open mind and be willing to accept that it isn't the old course. I'm a little worried that the powers that be might be guilty of trying to make this 21st Century course more that what it is. At the end of the day it's a Leadership Training Course, not unlike many other Leadership courses that are offered by many businesses. Eamonn.

I have for a little time now, been concerned about how things are presented in the forum. While it might be OK for me to have an opinion as to when and where to wear a uniform? I know that I'm not an expert in a lot of the topics that do come up. I don't the what laws are applicable where? I do know that they can differ from State to State. I'm not an expert on insurance or medical matters. Different Councils do at times have different rules, regulations and I sometimes wonder if the word "Policy" is being over used. While some Forum Members do seem to have knowledge in some areas. I don't know these people. In fact I have never met most of them!! Very often (At least lately - Or so it seems to me!!) A lot of medical and Legal terms seem to be used in some threads. These at times do seem to give some sort of credibility to the person using them. But again I have no idea who this person is. Her Who Must Be Obeyed has worked in the ER of our local hospital for 25 years, but when I'm not feeling well I go to see the Doctor. I do urge everyone that when it comes to a matter of "Policy" or rules and regulations to check with the experts where you live or visit the BSA web site and then talk with the people who are involved in your area and community. Eamonn.

I'm all for units helping other units. I do think that there is a need for some sort of a written document that is fair to everyone. The equipment needs to be looked at and inspected before it goes out and again when it is returned. Time limits need to set down for when it will be returned (Along with where!!) Some things do just happen and really are not the fault of the unit borrowing the equipment. For example while I'd expect anyone using the trailer to fix a flat tire. I think expecting them to replace it with a new one might not be fair. A lot does come down to how well you know the people in the other unit, but sometimes when things are not clearly explained and put in writing you run the risk of not only maybe losing some valuable equipment but also some friends. Eamonn.

I'd really have to take the time to give this some thought. My first reaction was that I don't think it will ever fly. While I do know that a District really doesn't have the authority to demand something like this. I'm not 100% sure if a Council can? I don't think a Council can. But I'm not sure. The 2010 Jamboree Leadership application did say that some Troop leadership positions had to be filled by people who had taken the 21st Century Wood Badge. I have heard that some people called and were informed that this was an error. So far I have not seen the change in anything that National has sent out. I'm a little worried when someone says that they have talked with "Someone at National". Very often they haven't!! And rarely if ever do they say who they spoke with? Eamonn.

My quarter of an hour would be spent explaining the difference between a Professional Scouter and a volunteer. At the risk of sounding like a big headed Englishman! I don't want the money I give to Scouting (The local Council) spent doing work a volunteer does. A good many new DE's seem like they want to play at being a paid volunteer and get involved in running events that youth are involved in, or training events. I unlike some of the forum members who have posted. Do want him /her to be a numbers type. I want him to be out and about in the community doing what he can to sell Scouting to business leaders who might be willing to support the Council financially. I want him to be meeting with chartered organizations who might be willing to expand their Scouting programs and be on the look out for organizations who might become CO's. We have great volunteers who do a wonderful job of delivering the program to the youth. The volunteers have a lot more experience at doing what they do. They don't need to spend $20.00 an hour having someone do what they do for free. Ea.

Over the years I have been involved with helping to start several new units. Sometime back someone gave me a knot along with a lapel pin. I never really gave much thought to what happens next. Without going over the entire way /method of starting a new unit. Which can be found on the BSA site. I did my bit. Made the sale and all that good stuff and was happy to leave the signing of the Charter Agreement to the Head of the Chartering Organization and the DE. I was always 99.9% Sure that the organization was an organization that held the same values as the BSA. I do have to admit that I never really gave this a lot of thought being as most of the organizations were Service Clubs or Churches. I did have a coffee Shop start a Crew, but the owner was a guy who had been a long time Scouter. It didn't last long -The coffee shop went out of business. The DE is an employee of the local Council. He reports to his big boss the Scout Executive, who is also an employee of the local Council. The paper work is handled by the Council Registrar, who is also employed by the local Council. The Charter is printed by her. It is presented by the Unit Commissioner or a member of the Commissioner Staff, who is selected by the District Commissioner and approved by he local Council Executive Board. So far it seems to me that everything so far has been done at the local level. My question is does the National Office of the BSA ever approve a charter? If so when does this happen? I do know that the fees involved do go to the National Office. But is anyone in Texas actively looking at these? Or are they happy to take the word of the local guys? Eamonn

We have a Lad in the Ship who nearly quit Scouting because a NYLT SM made a statement that Scouts have to be Christian and belong to a recognized religion!! Him and I had a chat and for a little while he has been looking into the Wiccans. He has said that he does believe that there is a "Higher Power". He is just turned off by the traditional organized religions. It might be just something he is going through. But for now everyone seems happy. We ran into a problem a couple of years back when our then Boatswain insisted that everyone attend the Sea Scout Scouts Own at a Winter Training weekend. A couple of the Scouts were very vocal about this being wrong. Ea.

Not sure if I'm going to be guilty of hijacking this thread or not? If it seems that I have? Just ignore me. I'm with Bob White's camp -I think. I do carry OTC meds either in in my car on the boat or in my own First Aid kit. I know just about all the Scouts that parents entrust me with. On the rare occasion when a Scout has some kind of an ailment (Strange thing is that it doesn't happen that often. Maybe I'm just lucky?) He or she will come to me and say something like "Eamonn do you have any Tylenol" or other common everyday OTC med. I'll normally reply "There is some... " in where ever they happen to be. They will then go to where they are and take the recommended dose. I know I have supplied the drug and I suppose this is not really that different than if I had handed it to them. Of course the average age of the Scouts in the Ship is about 16 years old. If we are some place or event where a person is in charge of this kinda thing I'm more than happy to pass the buck to them. I do at times offer to keep a Scouts meds in a safe place. While at times the safe place I offer might not be the ideal place, most times it's safer than where he or she might store them. I don't as a rule accept the responsibility of ensuring that they do take their meds. Truth is I'm sometimes not good at remembering to take my own!! My big gripe about this goes in the other direction. People who seem to want to not allow my kid to take his meds on his own. They insist (or have tried to insist!!) That he hands over any and all meds to them. As his parent I was (He will be 20 in a couple of months) happy to allow him to take charge of his own meds. Mainly allergy meds. He knew when and how much to take. I was fine with this. But these, sometimes not very well qualified people who seemed to want to play doctor, would try and it was some kind of "Policy". This sort of thing really gave me a head-ache!! Anyone got a couple of aspirin? For the record. I rarely if ever dwell on all this Liability type of stuff. I tend to do what I think is for the best and act in what I would call good faith. I would never do anything to harm or hurt a kid. Suing me? I think would be a waste of time!! I don't own anything. Ea.

OK !! Are we done? Eamonn.

See I was right when I said that I might be wrong!! Thanks for the help! I'm OK with being a Queen's Scout. Eagle Scouts don't get to go to Windsor Castle!! Eamonn.

Argyle, OK, I'll bite. I know that you are a Sea Scouter. I know that the Sea Scout Manual is only available with the spring type binding. I don't know why you would resurrect a thread from 2003? Without in any way wanting to come off sounding unkind -What are you up to?? "Enquiringly Minds Want To Know" Ea.

Hi, I had never heard of the Royal Rangers -Silly me thought for some unknown reason they might be connected with the Mounties!! Not sure where that came from!! I'm also not sure what the "Official" answer might be or if this is something that is open to local authority? All in all I don't know very much. But... I do seem to remember that a Lad who was a Scout (Not a member of the BSA)in another country (Kinda like I was) and he joined the BSA he would have to start over. With this in mind I'd think that this Lad would have to start at the beginning. But I might be wrong. Eamonn.

John, I'll bet there are a good many Preachers, Priests and Ministers who have feelings akin to what you are talking about. People who are happy to fill the pews but as soon as the service is over are just as happy to return to the maybe not so nice ways that they practice? Some Scouts and their parents do view being a Scout in much the same light as belonging to a school club or maybe playing a sport? I think it takes some time and a level of maturity to see the Oath and Law as being a way of life or a code to live by. Like many things this understanding is a journey, along the way there are pitfalls and hazards. Most of the youth we deal with in Scouting are very fortunate in having parents who care and adults who are willing to give freely of themselves. While I have never in a million years seen myself as a hero!! I do hope that the youth I serve and have served do and have learned something from me. My big hope of course is that they see and learn from the "Good Side" and are willing to get past, overlook and maybe forgive the "Bad-side". Lord knows I'm not a saint. I do try to set as good as an example as I can for the youth who might look up to me. I do hope they see me as a person who goes about things in a "Do as I do" not a "Do as I say" sort. I hate it when a kid comes up to me with the old "But you said..." As adults in this organization the youth we serve learn about Scout Spirit from us, not just at Scout meetings but they see how we treat our kids, they hear what we say about other people when we think they are not listening. Most of all I think that they know how much we care about them as an individual and it is from us really caring that they respond. There is no way we can pretend to care or pull the wool over their eyes. They know and do see us for what we are. Eamonn.

There are at times things that are worth repeating and merit another look. SCOUTER-Terry, didn't ask or request that I reopen this thread. I do however think some of us (Me included!!) Could take a look at what SCOUTER-Terry posted and maybe use it to work toward making the forum a happier and more Scout-like environment. Being "Right" is all well and good. But being right and showing respect to others is a lot better. All of us are doing what we can to help the young people we serve. We may have different ways of reaching the goal, but the goal remains the same. Eamonn.

Hi John-in-KC Some time back our good friend OGE (At least I think it was him ??) posted a quote from some judge who was talking about pornography. It went something like "I don't know how to describe it, but I know it when I see it" (OGE - Please feel free to correct me if I have it wrong or if you didn't post it!!) I kinda think part of our problem is that we want some kind of a yard stick that can measure Scout Spirit. As we all know there is no yard stick. For many of us adults we have had time to work on what our values are and at times we see things in black and white. We have things that we think are important and things that we see as being not so important. For example I'm as a rule never late. I think being late is rude and shows a lack of consideration to others. But sometimes things don't go as they should and being late is unavoidable. When that happens I normally call and let people know what has happened and when I'll be where I'm supposed to be. I have a good friend who is never late. We were running late for a WB development weekend. He was driving, it was raining and he was driving like a lunatic (90 MPH on the PA Turnpike) He was happy to disregard all the speed limits and traffic laws, because his value system put being on time first. (I closed my eyes and said a few Hail Mary's!) As Scouters we are blessed to be able to work with young people. We get to know them, watch them grow and develop. We hope that in some ways we play a part in helping them become good citizens and have the skills to be able to make sound and ethical choices and decisions. The little Lad who crosses over from the Pack, struggles to learn the words of the Scout Law and Oath, at times maybe not really understanding what the words mean. Scoutmasters see these Lads grow and get to know their strong points and weak points. Each and every Lad is different. I think we have all seen and worked with the "Bully" the "Joker" the shy kid, the Lad who is always late, the Lad who seems to have a hard time telling the truth, even when telling lies seems to be just silly. The list goes on. For a while OJ had a really hard time saying no. He would volunteer to do something and then someone else would ask him to do something and he'd agree to do that and then maybe something else would come along and he'd agree to do that as well. Of course this didn't make him seem to be very Trustworthy and at times his loyalty was brought into question. I really think that he didn't intend to do any harm, in fact part of the problem was that he was trying to please too many people -Just all at the same time. We can help Scouts become aware of their shortcomings and maybe file off some of the rough edges? I however believe that Boy Scouts are not "Little Angeles". Doug Mc Phee, was a PL in the Troop. A great kid. He enjoyed Scouts and Scouting. As long as things were in his book going well he was a good PL. Sadly when things weren't going as he'd like them to go he became a holy terror a real bully who liked to fight. He ruled his Patrol with an iron fist. Over the years he did see that this wasn't the best way of doing things and he did become more kind and more understanding, but the temper was always there. I spent a lot of time with Doug, we talked a lot about what he was doing and looked for better ways of going about getting things done. He did work on his temper and was doing his best to live by the Scout Oath and Law. At times he still failed. But he was trying and he was doing his best. It might be all too easy to say that he wasn't "Demonstrating Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life." But in my book he came a long way and I was happy to have been of some help. We need to look at each and every Scout as an individual, look at where he has been and where he is going. While I'm all for us doing what we can to ensure that we remain an organization with values in the forefront, we do however need to remember that the youth we are working have values that might be different than ours and that their values are a work in progress. Eamonn.

"Why do you say that Eamonn?" Let's start with: "To answer the question of who determines what is within the realm of scouting is very simple it is National which is locally represented by the professional Scouters in your council." Professionals are employees. Scout Executives: Are hired by the Council Executive Board and can be fired by the Council Executive Board. Voting members of the Board are all volunteers. Scout Executives are members of the Council Key 3 and do advise the other members of the Key 3. But as a non-voting member has no voice (Vote) in determining what the Council may or may not deem to be within the scope of Scouting. Scout Executives can not determine what is or what isn't Council policy. Each of the more than three hundred BSA local councils, or local offices, is a separate and independent employer. Each Council is a 501(3)© Corporation which works under a charter issued by the BSA. This charter is reviewed at lest once a year by members of the Area Committee, again a committee comprised of volunteers. It is unrealistic to expect anyone to have a in depth understanding of everything which might or might not be " within the scope of Scouting" I have worked with a few SE's over the years. Each has had different strong and weak points. Very often the Search Committee (Volunteers) will look for a person who is supposed to be strong in one area when they are hiring a Scout Executive. In the past we have looked at hiring people with strong communication skills to replace a SE who seemed happy to hide in his office and just didn't get on well with anyone (He was fired!) We have hired a guy who was supposed to be good at fund raising -He wasn't and he seen the writing on the wall and moved to the Council next door as a Field Director. He didn't do a good job there, so now he is in the National Office supposedly working as the LFL person in charge of working with Homeland Security!! Within the Council we have many knowledgeable and gifted volunteers. Some volunteer as Council Vice Presidents or as Council Chairman of specific areas -When a SE want to find out something he asks them. No prior Scouting knowledge is needed to become a DE. A week spent at PDL 1 doesn't in any way prepares or equips a person to know what falls under the scope of Scouting. Many of the people who have the hardest time adapting to the role of DE are young men who reached the Eagle Scout rank. By far the best DE our Council ever had was a female whose only experiences of Scouting and the BSA before becoming an employee of the Council was that her son had been a Scout. The main reason that she as so very good at her job was due to the fact that she was happy to leave program matters to the volunteers who knew what they were doing. She of course had met the qualifications for employment: Bachelor's degree from an accredited college or university United States citizenship or declared intention to become a U.S. citizen Adultmust have attained age 21 unless prohibited by any applicable law People-oriented, having the ability to work well with adult volunteers, community and business leaders, and representatives of other organizations Able to work varied hours when necessary to achieve positive objectives Believe in the BSA and subscribe to its principles and standards Be approved to receive a professional Scouting commission (Copied from: http://www.scouting.org/Careers/Qualifications.aspx ) At the unit level. The professionals have no say what so ever in who is selected as adult leaders. While some misguided individual professionals think they have a say in how the program is delivered or what sort of program is delivered. They don't. They could point out things that are not being done right to the COR or the Units Executive Officer, but they have no say -With that in mind. How the heck can anyone say that they determine anything? Districts and Councils are only around to help support units. If a unit doesn't want the support offered it doesn't have to take it. All members of the District Committee, Council Committee, Commissioner Staff and professionals employed by the Council when they visit a unit do so as invited guests. So Ed, that is why I say that. Eamonn.

From the link OGE provided Fast Facts for the Merit Badge Counselor "A merit badge counselor can counsel any Scout, including his own sonalthough this is discouraged in order to offer a Scout the chance to meet a diverse group of outstanding adults." As I see it there could be reasons why a parent might be the Counselor. On our District List of Counselors there are a few MB's that only have one name listed as being the Counselor for that MB. While having the parent act as the MBC is not the best idea I kinda think it's better than denying the Lad the opportunity, just because no one else is able to do the job. It is up to the Advancement Committee to approve MBC's. Surely if the committee felt that someone wasn't trustworthy they wouldn't approve him or her? If they found out he or she wasn't trustworthy they would remove them. Is the system perfect? Do some bad apples slip through? I kinda think we all know the answers! Eamonn

A very long time ago! As part of my Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge Ticket (Yipes!!) I said I was going to going to make a list of what training's the Cub Scouter's in our tiny District had taken and what training's were needed. While I never had a ticket item that stated it, my personal goal was to shoot for 100% Trained Leaders. I should maybe mention that this was before Scoutnet. At that time I was the District Cub Scouting Training Chairman. My first port of call was to visit the Council Registrar. She provided me with a list of every Cubmaster, Assistant Cubmaster, Den Leader, Assistant Den Leader and every name that was on a Packs charter. It was a very long list!! It soon became very clear that some of the names were just there in order to ensure that the charter made its way to being allowed to go through. In fact two Packs that I had nothing to do with had me listed as a Committee Member!! Some Packs had people who maybe at one time had been active, but were just kept on charters for some unknown (Unknown to me anyway!!) reason. Once a charter goes in, it seems that it isn't changed until the Pack recharters the next year, so changing it just doesn't happen! It didn't take long for me to see that my goal of 100% was more than just wishful thinking. Going over the charters of all the Packs, it became clear that many of the leaders who were trained were not listed as being trained. I returned to the Council Registrar asking for an explanation, she explained that she had never been given that information. I explained that each and every training has a sheet where the attendance is listed and this sheet (It has a number which I can't remember!) is turned into the Council Service Center after the training's. She had no idea what I was talking about. I went to the SE and asked him. He said that he seemed to remember seeing such a form, but had never seen it used! He sent me to the DE who had Training as a responsibility. He was a new DE, he sent me to the Field Director who sent me to the Council Registrar. Seeing that I was getting no place fast I mailed out a paper asking all the Cubmasters and Pack Committee Chairs to list who was trained and what training's they had taken, I got answers from less than half the Packs. A few months later the DE who was assigned to the District I served was working in the Service Center on the Annual Spring Clean Up Day and she found a file in an office drawer that was marked Training, inside was a lot of the Training Attendance Forms. - No one seems to know how they got there and a lot that should have been there were missing. I ended up badgering each and every Pack, by grabbing hold of them at R/T meetings or visiting them to get the information. About 76% of the Cubmasters were Trained. Less than 50% of the Den Leaders were Trained. I gave up on the Committee Members as so many of them were just names on paper. I was silly enough to think when I wrote this as a Ticket item that it wasn't going to be that hard!! At our last District Committee Meeting in April, the District Training Chairman brought the subject up. - I didn't want to upset him so I wished him luck and didn't mention what I'd gone through. Eamonn.

"To answer the question of who determines what is within the realm of scouting is very simple it is National which is locally represented by the professional scouters in your council." WHAT COMPLETE AND UTTER POPPYCOCK!!! Eamonn

At this time, I'm not in favor of this idea. While I'm OK with recognizing the people who have earned the "Top Rank" in a section (Arrow of Light, Eagle Scout). I think the recognition for earning a merit badge is the patch itself and being allowed / able to wear it where it is supposed to be worn. I personally think that this idea would result in more Troops pushing merit badge programs. Which when they become Troop Programs do get in the way of what I see as real Scouting programs. The Merit Badge should be about an area that holds some interest to the individual Scout. I'm not saying that the Lad who sets a goal of earning all the MB's is wrong or that this is a bad thing. I'm just happy with the way things are as they are!! As for a "Private Issue Knot"?? I just don't get it!! If we start going down that path whats next? Maybe a knot for Scouts who earn all the water based /aquatic merit badges or how about the badges that deal with scouting type outdoor skills? The list could go on and on. Anyways I not for it. Eamonn (This is in no way intended to upset anyone, be unkind, or is not a put down. It is my opinion, this is a forum and I'm happy to discuss my opinion with those who agree or disagree with it.) Edit: Have just visited the web site and read: " I have taken some heat from over-zealous individuals over the creation of this knot. This is what is called an "unofficial, private issue knot." This means that it is not endorsed by BSA, and if you choose to wear it on your uniform at any time a "uniform policeman" may tell you to remove it. I have discussed this knot with my local commissioner, and he likes the idea. Personally, I will wear it proudly" I have to say that I find this comment to be out of line!! There is no such thing as "uniform policeman". At the end of the day each of us can choose to do what is right and what is wrong. We choose what sort of example we want to set for the youth we lead. Local Commissioner?? And he represents?? The "Penalty" for wearing a knot like this is maybe a few raised eye-brows. I'm not sure what penalty might be incurred for selling it? But putting down people who want to do the right thing? Is this in keeping with the Scout Law? I think not. (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Of course seeing a little Fellow with his Bobcat is really great!! If we are doing our job right we can at times imagine the fun, adventure and learning experiences he has in store. Boy Oh Boy!! Wouldn't it be grand to start all over again!! Ea.

"World Ending Soon?" "Its Alive " "Use it or Lose it " "Into the Wild " "Is This True " "Scouting Truths " "The Ultimate Question" "Some people will sell anything" "Mixing it up " "Am I nuts? No, dont answer that" "OT: pet alligator* has hurt his foot" "Playing broomball" "here, there, and everywhere " OK, Kahuna, Which Thread brought you back? No!! I know it was the one about the "Last Word" Great to hear from you again. (Rooster too!!) Eamonn.