Eamonn

Dan, We have for several weeks had a thread running that has looked at each of the methods of Scouting. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=98818#id_98818 So far we are only up to advancement. The thread title is: So What Do You Do To make The Advancement Method Work? So far the posting have all been very good and very well thought out. Eamonn.

You might want to try Hay Box Cooking http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1980_January_February/Rediscover_the_Hay_Box_Cooker Eamonn.

Remember when Tiger Cubs were 1st Graders and had to be potty trained? Remember those things called Councils before the Federation took their place? Remember all those old men who were Presidents, before Queen Hilary? Remember before the days of the Thought Police, some twits chose what socks they would wear? Remember the fuss there was when the neckerchief was replaced with radio frequency identification badges and free thinkers would change the frequency? Remember when kids didn't need a dose of Paxil to be happy? Remember them old backpacks that didn't have GPS built in? Eamonn.

Kahuna, My Mum said she missed one when it came to the drownings!! I can't think what she was getting at? I do hope that you enjoy the wedding. I do a much better job of keeping in contact with the Lads I served now I have e-mail. Her Who Must Be Obeyed at times tells me that I'm a bit like an old mother hen. I was very young when I became a Scoutmaster,in many ways the Scouts and I grew up together. Thanks to e-mail we now share pictures of people and dogs that we love. Even some of their parents get in on the act!! Have to admit to not liking the e-mail cards and still spend a small fortune at the post office at Christmas. Eamonn.

Kahuna, My Mum said she missed one when it came to the drownings!! I can't think what she was getting at? I do hope that you enjoy the wedding. I do a much better job of keeping in contact with the Lads I served now I have e-mail. Her Who Must Be Obeyed at times tells me that I'm a bit like an old mother hen. I was very young when I became a Scoutmaster,in many ways the Scouts and I grew up together. Thanks to e-mail we now share pictures of people and dogs that we love. Even some of their parents get in on the act!! Have to admit to not liking the e-mail cards and still spend a small fortune at the post office at Christmas. Eamonn.

Dan, I can't help feeling that you got what you asked for - A checklist. I think it's a good list and worth looking at and examining. If you had said " I was hoping for a bit of a brainstorming discussion to get a broad range of thoughts on elements of strong troop programs and elements that make troops strong" Maybe the discussion would have taken a different turn. Maybe we might have looked at Leadership Skills and the right style of leadership needed at different times. We might have turned the conversation around to the tools that participants take away from different trainings. I could have bored the pants off everyone with one of my long and rambling posts that has everyone asleep before the get to the end of it!! Scoutmasters like Korea Scouter and FScouter might have posted what works and what doesn't work for them. We have an abundance of talented people in this forum. But you asked for "a one- or two-page "cheat sheet" of the elements that make up a good troop program, what would you put on the list? Eamonn.

I of course like to think that the District I serve is the best. I think we have the best volunteers and the best looking District Chairman. I do have to say if we (Scoutndad & I) were in the same district. I would take what he said to heart and do everything I could to make things better. Sure he is part of the District, but I see the role of the District as doing all we can to support him and the unit. While I can't change the night or time of Roundtable I can ensure that the Cubmaster does receive all the R/T mail and news of what is happening when and where. If it becomes apparent that there is a need for training I can send in the District Training Team, their job is to train leaders not present Training Sessions. If I found out that the list of Troops was needed,the membership team are ready and willing to move into action. I really would like them future Boy Scouts to be part of our District. I have this theory which isn't based on anything other than my gut feeling that Units and Districts go through peaks and valleys. The District that has me in it has been the force to be reckoned with for about 6 or 7 years. It seems that we have peaked and unless we do something very quickly we could slide. The District that had all the movers and grovers in about 10 years ago hit rock bottom. They have brought back a District Chair that has an ego even bigger than mine. While their goals are very low because of their slump, they are at long last starting to meet them. They went almost 3 years with a District Chairman and the District Committee meetings were a time when everyone sat around telling each other how bad things were!! Their DE who was a newbie 3 years ago is starting to find his feet and they have a new District Commissioner, who has a lot of hard work ahead. I credit the successes we have had to us having a fine DE and the work done by our nominating committee. Our volunteers are great, they support the District and the Council, the effort they put into selling popcorn, school sign up night, inviting people into do FOS presentations. Helping staff Camporees, Day Camp and so very much more is second to none. Outsiders have said more than once that our District seems to be one big family. We do have a lot of fun, we do tease each other in a very friendly and kind way. The leaders even the misguided ones are doing their best for the kids that they serve. Eamonn.

Thanks for the help. Found one cheaper than the one I was bidding on in e-bay. Eamonn.

I am very much a night owl. The Troop members knew this and knew that I wasn't going anyplace till they had quietened down and nodded off. However once I do go to sleep, as a rule I sleep the sleep of the dead. A few years back I was staffing a Wood Badge course at Camp Mountain Run,Bucktail Council. At that time they had a bear that paid nightly visits to the dumpster area. The Bear seemed to grow bigger with each sighting. I was sleeping no where near the dumpsters and He didn't bother me and I didn't bother him. We got along just fine. At the time there were no Scouts in camp and the Summer Camp season was over. Eamonn.

I have a slight problem with my son,he tends to think what is his is his and what's mine is his if he can get it out of the house without me knowing. He took my transistor radio to summer camp and managed to break the telescopic aerial.Good thing is that I have had a long time to get over it. Anyway I think that I will buy myself a new radio. I just want a radio, no CD player or cassette player. Wal Mart has a junky looking Emerson weather radio that they are selling for about $25.00. But it doesn't seem that well made. I have been thinking about a Grundig Yacht Boy or maybe the smaller Grundig Traveler. I really am not into Radio, just want something that works and will pull in the BBC World Service. Any ideas or help? Eamonn.

Dealing with adults can be very hard. Our Council has five Cub Scout parent and son weekends a year. In the information packet that everyone receives, the BSA alcohol policy is explained and the fact that the camp is in a State Park, which also has a no alcohol policy. Still at the end of each weekend we find evidence of alcohol. The information packet explains that anyone caught will be asked to leave the camp and take their son home. I enjoy the odd adult beverage, but I can't understand how these parents would risk embarrassing themselves in front of their son. I have to think that if they are unable to go one night without a drink they really must have a problem Each of these weekends is staffed by volunteers from each of the Districts. Some of the Districts wait till late at night and send people out to try and catch offenders. To the best of my knowledge no one has ever been sent home. I have to admit to not trying to catch anyone. But that's just me. Eamonn.

While not trying to be disagreeable or in any way judgmental. But is making First Class Scout in about a year that much of a stretch? When I look at the requirements,I fail to see why a Lad in a well organized Troop, which is offering a decent program should have a hard time. If anything the hold up I hear about the most is the swimming requirement. Eamonn.

Kahuna I'm not sure why but when you say " but since I'm not leaving any kids, it doesn't matter in my case" I find this kinda sad. My old Group Scout Leader from the 17th Fulham Pioneers, Old Charlie Reed, who I always called Mr. Reed to his face, even when I was an adult!! But I always called him Old Charlie Reed behind his back. Mr Reed for some reason, something to do with him being a hospital administrator never got to serve in WWII. He did keep the Troop newsletter going sending it out to all the Troop members who were serving. After the war when one of the guys didn't come back, they decided to build our Scout Headquarters. Mr Reed was Cubmaster of the 17th for eons!! He also served as District Secretary. He never had any kids and his wife had passed away. When he joined her he left me all his Scouting papers and in this was his diary. Over the years Mr Reed and I had crossed swords a few times, me being so young and like a bull in a china shop and him being the wise old owl. When I sat down with all this paper and started reading it became so very clear to me just how much he loved Scouting and the 17th. Sad to say the 17th and the District are no more. I hope that when the White House at Gilwell Park is renovated that the War Newsletters will become part of the Gilwell collection. Charlie even in his diary, when we were going head to head didn't have a bad word. He used to look at me and say "Slowly, slowly cathee monkey." He said BP had used it, but I have never found where? Over time Charlie did receive many of the Scouting Awards that the UK Scout Association has to offer, but thanks to his letters and the things that he left me his legacy will be the love he had for the 17th Fulham (Pioneers) God Bless you Mr Reed. Eamonn.

Hi Bob, I think I have seen the list before!! My thoughts: First I do think that the list is a list of goals, things that if you haven't done or haven't reached should be on the "To Do" list. Looking at each point. 1) At some point in time were 100% of your registered volunteers trained in the past 12 months? Of course there is no argument from me. I would add that if they are not maybe the District Training Committee needs to take a look at what they are doing. 2) Did the Troop have a 1-year written program calendar? Again no argument from me. I do think that a how to go about making an annual plan is a good topic for a round-table meeting. 3) Do all members wear a complete, official, BSA uniform? While I know that uniform ownership is not a condition of membership it is a method of Scouting and if people are not wearing it, there is a need to find out why and do everything possible to fix the problem. 4) Did 80% of the troop camp at least 10 nights in the last 12 months? I can't help thinking that 10 nights is a little on the low side. Summer camp would account for seven nights. 5) Did you have at least 4 courts of honor in the past 12 months. I think I would focus more on immediate recognition, more than the number of COH. 6) Did the patrols and troop follow a monthly theme every month during the last 12 months. Fine and dandy with me. 7) Are 80% or more of the scouts who joined in the previous 12 month period still active in the last 12-month period? Boy do I hate percentages!! If only two new Scouts joined and one moved... 8) Have 80% or more of the new scouts (who have been in the troop between 12 and 14 months) completed all requirements for 1st Class? Make that 18 months and I'm with you. 9) Does the Troop meet for 60 to 90 minutes each week? We have one of the better Troops in the District that now only meets three times a month, using one week for the PLC meeting. Does this count? 10) Does the troop hold elections for Senior Patrol Leader every 6 to 9 months? Some Troops do very well only holding the election every 12 months. I don't see it as a big deal. 11) Does the Senior Patrol Leader get to select all other troop junior leaders except JASM? Fine with me as long as he waits till after the Patrol elections. 12) Did all patrols hold Patrol Leader elections each 6 to 9 months. Again I think the Troop does what works best for them, if 12 months works why change? 13) Does every scout hold a troop or patrol Position of Responsibility? Great idea. 14) Does the Committee meet every month? Fine. 15) Did the troop and each patrol do at least 1 Good Turn Project in the last 12 months? At least one and maybe one for the CO. 16) Does every registered adult and youth member wear a correct, official, BSA uniform. I can see where it is nice that Troop Committee members do own and wear a uniform, but I don't see this as being a requirement and fear that we could lose or scare away good people who don't want to wear the uniform. Just as a District Chairman is not necessarily a uniformed position. 17) Do the troop meetings include the 7 elements of the troop meeting planner? Fine. 18 ) Do only scouts lead the troop and patrol meetings? Great. I am a little surprised that you make no mention of the PLC? Eamonn.

Letters were real big in our family. My Grandparents who lived in Ireland would send me money in a card and I was expected to write them a thank you letter, they would write me a letter thanking me for my letter and I would reply to their letter. I seemed to spend half my childhood writing letters. Once I was old enough to pay my own phone bill,I started phoning and my letter writing slowed down a lot. Then along came e-mail and as more and more people bought computers and Internet service I started using e-mail more and more. If I need an answer from someone I still use the phone. I however do feel like I'm becoming a lazy toad and using e-mail more than I should. Which do you feel is more personal a e-mail or a call which if you are not home you feel that you should return? Eamonn.

But we do allow Tigers to cook marshmallows on sticks in the campfire. I think we'd have a riot if we tried to overrule that. I hate to be a kill joy, but I have never ever seen a young Cub Scout eat one of these things. Most times you end up with a stick to which a molten lump of sugar is attached. Which is a very dangerous situation to be in. Eamonn.

It seems that we have a lot of Antelopes on the loose. I was really tempted to present the Leaving A Legacy, presentation myself!! The first time I seen it presented it was OK, but not as great as I thought it could have been. The second time was a lot better. I kinda knew in my heart of hearts that as Course Director that I should have someone else present it and in the end did have my mentor do it. It is a very powerful presentation and I do hope that one day someone will ask me. I think I could manage to not tear up. Eamonn.

I think I might be guilty of splitting hairs. But I don't see adults as Patrol members. I admit that when I was a SM, we never had and never went out of our way to encourage non-scouter participation at camps. We did have a couple of weekends where parents were invited to join in a program that was specifically designed around them being there and participating. We might have also been guilty of over planning or over programing what we were trying to do. The idea being that if everyone knew what they were doing the better chance that it might get done. First and foremost the reason for going to camp was delivery of the program to the Scouts. While all the adults were expected to lead by example in things like neatness, keeping the site clean and behaviour. We were not there for the same reason as the Scouts were there. Most times when we went away we took 4-6 leaders. I seen them and myself as the Leadership Team. We had Fred, who loved to cook. He was a very gifted and knowledgeable person. Who in his own way did like the Scouts, but he didn't have the patience needed to work with young Scouts, at least not in small groups. Fred couldn't understand why if he demonstrated a Lad how to tie a knot two or three times, why the Lad didn't get it! Fred cooked for the leaders. This gave the leaders more time to work for the Scouts. Of course being that he wasn't doing much else when we broke for lunch or dinner the Scouts were starting from scratch and the leaders meal was ready. While the Scouts were cooking and eating, the leadership team would be busy preparing for the next activity. There were of course times when some or all of the leadership team had nothing to do. Some of this time was used for just doing nothing or doing things like reading a book. Most times this time was spent thinking up some new or enhanced activity for the Scouts. I spent many happy hours making flour bombs and water balloons. Or setting out an orienteering course. There were times when the Scouts were busy doing a pioneering project that we would just play with new ideas for the next pioneering project. The end result was at times some type of gateway, swing or tower. Sometimes some of the leaders would go and hike the hike that had been planned before hand using a map, just to make sure it worked and ensure that there were no safety hazards. In many ways we were very fortunate that we had a leadership team that consisted of leaders who were very experienced and for the most part knowledgeable scouter's. The least experienced member of the team was Pete our QM. I at times was a little unsure what he thought the most of the Scouts or the equipment? But even Pete was in his glory explaining the care and maintenance of a backpacking stove to a group of Scouts or how he expected tools to be returned. There were times when we met for our Sunday after church before lunch drink that I would explain what had came out of the PLC the day before and I had to sell them on some of the ideas of what the PL's had come up with and there were times when they moaned and groaned and said that I was nuts and it wouldn't work, there were times when they were right!! It didn't work, but I think they knew why we had to try. The reason being that they cared for the Troop and the Scouts that were the Troop. Eamonn.

Being the Scout Sock rule follower that I am. I have to say that all the good stuff that bbng copied from the G2SS must, has to be, should be, gotta be followed to the letter. No If's and's or But's. Capish!! Having organized events where there are several hundred Health forms coming at you from many different directions (Day Camps,Parent Son Camps) I can put my hand on my heart and say that Class 1 medical forms are part of the reason why I no longer have dark hair. While I am in no way suggesting that anyone ignore health forms, or any paperwork that we are supposed to do. I do in some ways question the value of Health Forms. The BSA has gone with the duration of the activity and the type of activity. I in my "Infinite Wisdom" think that distance from home should be the deciding factor. I am not a doctor (If there are any lurking maybe they could share their view?) but Her Who Must Be Obeyed has worked in the ER of our local hospital for a good number of years. She informs me that in a matter of life or death the ER Doctor will dive right in to save the life. Such things as being allergic to latex or not being up to date with a tetanus injection don't come into play. Our Council Summer camp is served by three hospitals. Looking at the Council and the location of the hospitals, it seems that if a parent was home they could drive to any of the three in under two hours. Her Who Must Be Obeyed tells me that in most cases a ER Doctor will wait to talk to the parent face to face before treating such things as broken bones. Keeping the patient as comfortable as possible while waiting for the parent to arrive. She also informs me that Health Form or not, the very first thing they do before starting any treatment is to try and contact the parent. In this day of cell phones, contacting someone is not as hard as it used to be. Of course if the activity is a long way from the Scouts home, parents are not going to make it to the hospital. Still the Doctor or the hospital is going to make every effort to talk with the parent before they start non-life threatening procedures. Over the years I have taken a lot of Scouts away to camp. At times a very long way from home, I have treated cuts, burns and home sickness. I have with the parents permission given Scouts their prescribed medications. But not being a medical professional I have never given a Lad any medication without first contacting a parent. Even with a up to date Health form, I don't know if the Lad can tolerate even the most basic of medications. Our Council camp has EMT on staff over the summer. While I do know that she is better trained than I am and has more experience than I have. I would hope that she isn't handing out medications to Scout without first contacting his parent. These are just my thoughts. I do not in any way advocate or suggest that any health form should be ignored. For the Jamboree I have loaded my cell phone with the contact number for all the troop members. Everyone has of course completed the Jamboree Health form. I have a copy. The Council has a copy and our Emergency contact person has a copy. I would never take someone's son away without having some way of contacting his parent or designated parent approved contact person. This would be a risk that I wouldn't want to take. A parent can fill out a class 1 form in the parking lot, if you are only going away for the weekend. While I would hate to say to a Lad that he couldn't go. I wouldn't allow him too, unless the paperwork was in tip top shape. Eamonn

meamemg The #1 complaint I hear from older Scouts who are in Troops that don't have a Venture Patrol (Not Crew) is that that they dislike having to work with the younger Scouts. The #1 complaint I hear from Scoutmasters is that the older Scouts are so busy with activities outside of Scouting that there are extended periods when these older Scouts are just not available. During Football season, a couple of Troops have meetings that are very badly attended due to the band members not being there and the football players nor being there. Of course the Scouts in the NSP are not involved in these activities and are at the Troop meeting. It seems to me that more adults are needed in your Troop. Eamonn.

While I agree that each and every Scout will advance at his own rate or speed. I also strongly believe that having Scouts make First Class Scout, within a 12 -18 month period has to be a Troop goal. Of course some Lads are more motivated than others, but isn't providing motivation something that Troops leaders provide? If Mr. Scoutmaster wakes up one day and sees that the entire new Scout patrol isn't advancing and they have been in the Troop for over a year, I would hope that this would be seen as clear signal that something isn't working. Summer camp should be the high point of the year. A time when we pull all the stops out. A time when fun and adventure steps up to the plate.The real fun and adventure starts when the skills needed to be a First Class Scout are mastered. Lads should be able to be self-programing at summer camp, the older Scouts know what they want to do and how to go about doing it. The younger Lads will need help. Surely this is a job for the Troop Guide? Talking as a parent I would much sooner my kid came home from Summer camp having gone through a well ran First Year Camper Program, which really covered the skills needed to be a First Class Scout, than a Basketry Merit Badge, which he only done because everyone told him that it was easy. My Son has the Basketry Merit Badge, which he did at a summer camp. To date he hasn't looked at a basket since. Eamonn.

OJ isn't feeling very energetic. I thought he was going to nod off at supper. He even passed on dessert (Crepes with bananas, fried with brown sugar topped with ice cream) He never refuses dessert!! I will be with troop 412 at the Jambo, I'm not much of a patch trader so do ask your son to look me up, I have very white hair and talk funny!! So I'm not hard to find. I'm pleased with our CSP, we only had 1,500 made. Everyone in both troops got 12 (960) and could but up to five more. The rest are for the people who are attending as staffers, so these really will be a collectors item. There are ten with a gold boarder. Mrs Rogers and Mr Mc Feely (sp) each got one, both Scoutmasters got one. The Lad who designed the patch got one. Jamboree Chair got one, the Scout Exec got one. I'm not sure where the others are. They presented me mine in a frame with a nice certificate. Teasingly I said that I was going to put it on E-bay. Boy did I get some dirty looks!! I think OJ will sleep till noon. He came in wearing the headdress, with the laptop that must go with the job. Cheeky little lad informed me it was better than the one I bought him!! He is running for Lodge Chief, I think the election is in October. Eamonn.

Hi morainemom, OJ, is home he said that the food was good. The camp could do with a few more showers!! The Lad who is serving as my ASM is the new section chief and OJ is the section secretary. The rain held off and they had a great weekend!! Hosting a conclave is a lot of hard work, please pass on my thanks to all the members of your sons lodge for a job well done. Our Program Executive promised to shave off his beard if there were more than 75 from Wagion sign up for this weekend, the last count I heard was 76. There is a OA weekend next weekend so I'm sure they will hold him to his word. Eamonn.

Good morning FScouter, you ask "What is the purpose of this thread?" It would be wrong of me to talk for jkhny. From my point of view it seems that jkhny is not a happy camper. Each and every time he has posted he has whined and complained. While at times some of us do use the forum as a tool to vent our feelings and complain about things, most of us get over it and move on. I don't think that there is a Scouter who isn't upset and feels that the people in Alabama have hurt Scouting and the BSA. While most of us can get back to doing real Scouting. it seems to me that jkhny just isn't happy unless he is complaining. Eamonn.

Hi Larry and Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you guys have really got your act together. I don't know if there is a need for a new area to discuss First Class. If you have something you want to bring up, just throw it out there. The fine people in this forum are in no way shy, they will let you know what they think. Eamonn.