Eamonn

I know it wasn't that long ago that we discussed the topic of Baby Sitting. I have to admit that I find it a little upsetting that anyone would view what I do as a adult volunteer as baby sitting. The Scouts I serve are not babies, they are a really nice group of Scouts. End of Vent. Before each event we try and guesstimate the cost. The cost includes: Food Any Fees. Gas and Tolls. Vehicle Rental. Once we have a total we divide it by the number of people attending. Everyone pays, Scouts and adults. If anyone (Like me) decides that they want to bring something extra (Kona coffee)that's up to them. If we have charged too much we hand some money back. If we need more we ask for it. This summer we drove 750 miles each way, I'd estimated with gas costing $3.00 a gal but at that time it was down so everyone got $15.00 back. Eamonn.

We found a Scuba instructor through the YMCA. The course is 11 Tuesdays at CALU and two dives at Storm Lake. He is charging $20.00 a session. It's a great winter time activity. The Lake never gets cold as it's a cooling pond for the 1,600-megawatt Mt. Storm Power Station. I called Pamlico Seabase about a month ago and they seemed to think that they would not be offering the Scuba course next summer. Eamonn.

CalicoPenn, While I see where you are coming from, when you talk about this being a opportunity to look at the Scout Law. Sadly I think the adult who got the Scouts to steal the flag, knew what he was doing. He knew it was wrong. He was acting like a big kid. The Scouts also knew what they were doing was wrong they did the dastardly deed as a lark more than out of anything. I at times enjoy acting like a kid. I have been known to make a complete and utter fool of myself. Mainly at camp fires and when I'm trying to lift the spirits of our Scouts. Still I like to think that I know and the Scouts know that in the blink of an eye I can return to being an adult leader. Scouting should and must be fun. But we as the adults should know when to say when, we need to remember at all times (Yes all times -Hard as that might be!!) That we are setting the example. While stupid things like having Scouts look for smoke shifters and go on snipe hunts are bad enough, they are worse when a person who ought to know better encourages them or starts them. Eamonn.

I am very proud of the Scouts in the Ship. I really like nearly all of them and don't dislike any of them. They never cease to amaze me. These kids work really hard, they attend school, work part-time jobs, participate in after school activities and still find time for Scouting. I have never made a big deal about uniforms, they really like their uniforms and have never made a big deal about wearing them. When I'm not as enthusiastic as maybe I should be they somehow manage to recharge my battery. They try so very hard to please not just me but the Ship, they want to see it do well. Of course some are more intelligent then others, some are so darn clever while others seem to struggle even with the easy stuff. At times they do tease each other, but I've never seen anyone be really unkind. I feel deeply honored that these young people want to spent time with me. They will only be young for a very short time. I really enjoy being with them and know that I have no way of ever giving them back their time. They make me laugh, not at them but with them, we share some really super, outstanding times. I enjoy their respect and really do my best to respect them. I keep waiting for a little toad to join the Ship, but so far it hasn't happened. I know that I have been blessed to just know this group. I don't think I deserve it. But I sure as heck enjoy it. Eamonn.

campcrafter Thank You. The Quarterdeck met tonight and they really didn't like the idea of going camping with dirt Scouts. So it looks as if the storm will pass. What was really strange was when I gave them the details, the first question our Yeoman asked was "Is this something that the Scouts came up with, or did it come from the adults?" I know that I tend to go a little over the top when it comes to planning. I like to see the plan all nice and neat. The fact that more often than not we make changes doesn't really bother me. At least we know what we hope to achieve and have some idea of how to go about it. I'll admit to not always playing fair!! Tonight I mentioned the Northeast Region Sailing competition and how nice it would be if we could enter a few teams next year. That was long before they looked at US Sailing Course offered by The Pamlico Sea Base, and I managed to look a little surprised when someone mentioned that if we went there we might do better in the sailing competition!! Strange how these things happen! I really should be a little upset with myself for ever doubting the Sea Scouts. I know that they either like to be busy or sleep!! Still they didn't decide where they want to go, they decided that they will bring back ideas to the next meeting. My money is on North Carolina,but I'm willing to go where they want as long as we aren't going as the guests of another unit. Summer is my time to spend really getting to know these kids and I don't want anything getting in the way of that. Eamonn.

please make sure that the attorney you hire understands that the E has nothing to do with Eamonn!!

What is the hardest part of WB? For me it was "Butterflies" A lot of people give up an extraordinary amount of time to present a course. While the syllabus for each course should be identical and each and every CD makes a pledge to present the syllabus as it is written. Each course is different. Each CD has something that he or she feels strongly about. Kind of like a production of Hamlet?? The ground work starts long before the course is even announced. Each CD is supposed to attend a Course Directors Conference. This isn't a budget item and anything that the Region does is never cheap and for some reason is always a seven hour each way drive!! Then the Staff is selected. They start working long before the participants start signing up. You need at least 32 participants in order to present the course. Courses have been canceled for not having enough participants. The deadline is 30 days before the start of the course. The idea that all the staff will have done all that work and spent all that time only for a course to be canceled, means that the CD is watching each and every deposit come in. I know I went for an adult beverage with my mentor when we reached that magic number. The week of the course I was a nervous wreck. So much to do and time is flying by. The night before the start of the course we normally all go out for dinner and return to do the Beading Ceremony. All new Staffers receive their third bead and the CD his or her fourth. A very close and dear friend presented me with my beads and I was very emotional. Then the course starts. Just like any good Scoutmaster all of a sudden you find that you really don't have that much to do. In fact I found myself looking for things to do, but the Staff were busy doing what they were supposed to be doing, so I went and went over my presentation. I looked at the course SPL and I thought to myself, "Boy is he great!!" Then being the egotistical chap that I am I thought "You know what Ea? You did a great job of developing that Staff!!" And the butterflies disappeared!! Eamonn.

I have to admit to not really knowing how bad a "Sin" flying a Confederate Flag really is? I'm sure that to some people it is like a red flag to a bull. I don't think the Flag really upset the ex Camp Ranger, I think he was just being a pain and likes to be a pain. The next question I suppose is how far should the "Camp" interfere with what a Troop does at camp in their site? I hope we don't end up with 101 rules of what flags are and are not acceptable!! I think I have in my Tupperware Box a CSP with a confederate flag on it! - Yes I know the Council changed the name and the patch. SemperParatus My good friend Jerry Crabtree, who I think is from your neck of the woods? Is a big Raven fan, needless to say I send him a lot of e-mails about the super-bowl champs. I seem to remember that Heritage has some kind of special permission to fly an early American Flag. I can't remember which one? Ed, do you know? Eamonn.

Talking with the fellow who serves as our Camp Commissioner at Summer Camp last night. Great Chap, in his early 70's,has been in Scouting for ever, just an all round nice guy. He was telling me about a problem they ran into at camp. I wasn't there, so everything is second hand. A Troop from the Council who like most Troops in the Council attends summer camp year after year, same week, same site were up at camp for the week. The SM is a nice chap. The Scouts in the Troop seem to have a lot of fun and are what I might call high spirited, but not out of hand. They seem to be very good at Scouting skills and the Troop does a good job of keeping older Scouts (16 &17 year olds) in the Troop. They use one of the sites away from the maddening crowd and while participating in the activities of the camp also do their own thing. It seems that one Scout decided that he would fly the Confederate Flag outside of his tent. It also seems that the SM and the leadership of the Troop were OK with it. While they were at camp the chap who was Camp Ranger, last year came up for a visit. He seen the Confederate Flag and complained to the Camp Commissioner, telling him that it had to come down. The Camp Commissioner said that the Flag was on the Troops camp site and really wasn't his concern, it was up to the Troop Leadership to take care of what went on in their site. Next thing is the Flag goes missing. It seems that last years Ranger went to a group of Scouts and told them to remove the Flag. When the Troop found out who had removed their Flag a fight broke out. Nothing really nasty, more pushing and shoving than anything else. It was broken up. The Flag was returned, but for the rest of the week there was tension between the two groups. The Troop with the Flag as a rule pays their deposit for the next year before they leave camp. This year they didn't and the SM spoke to the Camp Commissioner telling him that they didn't think they would be back. The Commissioner is as mad as a wet hen at last years Ranger and doesn't have a nice thing to say about him. He was one of the participants of the Wood Badge course I directed, so he asked me what I would have done? I said I would think about it. I know that some people are offended by the Confederate Flag. However I think that the guy who was Ranger was just being a real right pain. I also think if the Flag was causing him so much upset he ought to have gone to the Troop Leadership and expressed his concern, having Scouts do his dirty work is just plain wrong. I'm unsure if the Camp should have asked the Troop not to fly the flag? Eamonn.

Back before the 21st Century Wood Badge Course came along. The Scoutmaster had to approve all the Tickets. (On the Boy Scout Course, it was different on the Cub Scout course.) If??? The Course Director is following the Course Guide, He or She will know that the Tickets are not her concern. The final OK should come from the Troop Guide that is with your Patrol. You might do well to contact your guide and ask him or her to go over Tickets again and explain what a SMART Ticket is. When I was a CD,I did keep a copy of each and every participants Ticket, just in case it got lost, I also send a copy to the Ticket Counselor. We did have a slight problem with one Troop Guide who didn't seem to get it, but I took him behind the wood shed. Maybe if you have another Patrol Meeting you might invite one of the ASM's or the SPL to sit in? I'm saddened to hear that this is being such a pain. Please take my word most CD's are warm and fuzzy, some even talk funny!! Eamonn Course Director NE-IV-153

I have to admit with things being as they are at home right now and Her Who Must Be Obeyed not being well. I have not really had my heart in things as much as maybe I should. I did start looking at things to do and places to go next summer. I really wanted to go to Florida Sea Base, but the Ship's Committee and a fair number of the Scouts said it would cost too much. So far we have yet to master the fine art of fund raising (I was kinda hoping this would help get them thinking about it.) So I put Sea Base on the back burner. The Ship will elect the new Quarterdeck during the first meeting in October. I thought it best if I didn't do very much until the new officers were in place. I do however have several ideas, places, and programs that they could pick from, with alternatives for the Scouts who can't make the dates that the Ship decides upon. We could book the NE-Region Training vessel and go for a long cruise. Ten days would cost about $225.00. We could drive to North Carolina and do the The Sea Base US Sailing Course offered by The Pamlico Sea Base, the cost would be about $350.00 for a week. We have a couple of Scouts who might get selected to attend SEAL and a couple who might be interested in attending the Advancement Camps (Camp Able) in Virginia. One is returning to work as a Sea-pup at Camp Blue Heron in Georgia, where we went this year. To be very honest I thought I was happy going any place they wanted to go, as long as it seemed to fit into the Sea Scouting program. But... Our COR also serves as an ASM to a Troop. His two sons are in the Ship. The Troop is planning a trip to Assateague Island. They have parents are staying at Ocean City Maryland. He is saying the cost would be about $75.00 for the week. While I have nothing against Assateague Island. I know that the program the troop offers is less than poor. In fact we might as well camp in my back yard as travel any where to just live in a tent for a week. Having parents staying off site, but near by will only make things worse. I'm certain that he and his sons will make a really good pitch for us to go there. I'm sure the parents will look at the cost and think that it's great. But I'd rather go to the dentist. The trip as far as I'm concerned is more about the parents and some kind of family holiday, than anything to do with Sea Scouting. I know that the Sea Scouts will be bored out of their minds by day two and I really don't want to go!! Being as we are youth led I think I have to present this offer to the Ship. But I do think I will tell them that there is no way that I'm going. This will sound like sour grapes. But I have heard what this Troop gets up to when they go away. The high point seems to be visiting as many different Wal-marts as possible!! The SM is a nice fellow, in fact he was my ASM for the 2001 Jambo. Sadly he couldn't plan a real summer camp program for a week if his life depended on it. I'd be happy for them to join us and try and learn how to do things right!! But if we went we would be the guests. Wal-mart-Yuck!! Eamonn

I'm not sure how or why? But I just received a Scouting E-News, e-mail. This is a first for me. But it's marked:Volume 2, Issue 3. While I think it's great that at long last we seem to be waking up and seeing that this is the year 2006. (The Brits have been e-mailing members for years with up-dates.) The content does need a little more work. Is anyone else receiving these? If so what do you think? Eamonn.

We live out in the sticks. Her Who Must Be Obeyed didn't allow OJ to go out on his bike on the road. The speed limit on the road outside of our house is 45 MPH. We don't have street lighting and there is a few nasty bends in the road. Add to that he is the only kid in the area, so if he were to go out he'd be on his own. I grew up in down town London. Near a few city parks and close to a lot of other kids. We went from bicycles, to Vesper's to big motor bikes (650 Norton). OJ went from being a pedestrian to becoming a driver. Maybe when he is in his 50's he will buy a Harley and join the geriatric Sunday riders? Eamonn.

"It looks like even though I have nothing to do with the Charter Agreement between the Council and Yacht Club as the CO, I may have to explain this agreement means to the IH." One bad thing about starting a unit is that in some ways you feel a type of ownership. While you are of course a member of the BSA, you now serve the Club. The agreement is between the club and the council. You don't represent either. If the Club wants to know about this refer them to the council. Remind them that your job is to present the program and if the top guy in the club wants to know more he needs to make sure that the COR is doing his job. You might want to give the COR a friendly kick in the pants. You need to stop trying to be involved in everything and get on with being the Skipper. Eamonn.

Unit rechartering is done by the Commissioner Staff. (Volunteer to Volunteer) Dealings with Executive Officers and agreements between the two organizations are managed by the District Executive.(Pro to Pro) Eamonn.

Her Who Must Be Obeyed runs a very tight Ship. I'm given areas for my stuff. But every now and then she insists on tidying them up. After which I can't find anything. The dining room is used more as a conference room than anything else. But it is very much her room. She furnished it with antique furniture and decorated it. None of us (not even the dogs!!) are supposed to enter it. She notices the footprints on the carpet if we dare to go in. Since she has been unwell I do go in to water the plants. OJ's room is very much off limits, unless you know the cure for what you might catch. If I were to add a bath and a microwave, I'm sure he would never leave. Over the years I've enjoyed watching the posters on the wall change from Disney characters to sportsmen to females who while dressed are not in any way over dressed. We have fitted cupboards in the bedrooms, but I'm not allowed to keep any Scout uniforms in the bedroom. I think because there is just too many. All Scout type clothing is kept in my dressing room. The house has a 3 car garage. I have one stall for my Scout stuff. There is a work bench that is piled high with my tents and camping equipment five -three drawer filing cabinets full of Scout papers, 3 big gray metal cabinets full of books and video tapes. Along the back wall I have my training stuff: TV/VCR, LCD Projector, overhead projector. We have a two car garage which used to store just about everything you might ever need to run a Day Camp. But I cleared that out to get the tractors in. The tractors had to move to make room for the Sea Scouting equipment. At present there are a couple of boats in the yard. I'm planning to build a boat shed. So far I have dug the holes for the posts, but work came to a halt. (The holes have 55 gal drum in but I need to set the posts and get a roof on.) The only real disaster area is my desk. For some reason I don't do well with disks. I used to keep a lot of stuff, but I found that I was never ever able to find it when I needed it. So now I just don't bother. We have a couple of other buildings that have been used to dry tents and store equipment. But after a while it just seems silly. If something hasn't been used for a few years it really isn't that important and in most cases isn't in very good shape. I'm not much of a collector. When the Scout mugs out grew the cupboard I donated the ones that didn't fit to the camp. Patches and stuff end up in Tupperware boxes stored in an antique box. Her Who Must Be Obeyed bought it at an auction, she tells me it's a hope chest -I think it looks like a coffin. I'm not very organized but I found doing things Her way made life easier. Eamonn.

While LongHaul might be technically correct. It does happen that a CO can receive a Charter without ever seeing or signing anything other than a new unit application form. Scouts and leaders are covered by the BSA liability insurance. The equipment isn't. From the G2SS: BSA self-funds the first million dollars of each liability claim. This means that almost all money spent on a liability claim is Scouting money, not insurance money. Accident and sickness insurance pays regardless of fault as long as the accident occurred during an official Scouting activity and the unit or council has purchased the coverage. Our council charges each and every member $1.00 a year for this insurance. The key words are "official Scouting activity " The fact that a unit might have a 501(3)© in place has no bearing on this what so ever. As long as it's an official Scouting activity the insurance is in place. Eamonn. It might be worth mentioning that the Charter Agreement stays in the Council, but the Charter information is transmitted to the National Office.

http://www.georgestradingpost.com/about_us.htm George charges us $39.95 a day.(We are PA tax exempt) This covers 250 miles at no cost after the first 250 it's 15 cents a mile. We normally pick up the vans on Friday afternoon and drop them off on Sunday. We don't pay $300.00 for a week. But for long trips that 15 cents a mile can start to mount up PDQ. Eamonn

"Who's responsibility was for the "Charter Agreement"?" If you view the agreement as a contract between the Council and the CO, both parties have a responsibility. As a rule this isn't seen as a big deal. In fact when I was District Chairman, I informed our New Unit Coordinator not to get involved and leave that to the DE. He or She is the person who represents the Council and the BSA and ought to know the right answers? Even if he or she gives the wrong answers or wrong information the buck goes back to the Council and no one can say "Eamonn shouldn't have said that he is only a volunteer and ..." This is one reason I feel so strongly about DE's spending time with CO Executive Officers. Just about everything else is far better when it's managed by volunteers who know what they are doing. "During the Ship's open house I mentioned creating a 501(3)©to accept boat donations as see this is how many ships handle boat donations. The DE overheard this and told us we weren't allowed to do this and had to use the councils non-profit status for donations. This donation and 501(3)© business is tricky. Is the Club a 501(3)©? We have the local Elks as our CO. The Elks is tax exempt and we can use their tax numbers. We used the Elk's EIN's and PA tax exempt numbers when we opened our checking account. The Bank insisted that their name was on all the checks. If the Ship were to die, the money in this account would end up back in the Elks funds. They own the unit and the equipment that the unit has. If I were to write a check to Sea Scout Ship 777 for $1,000, I couldn't claim a deduction when I file my taxes. If I were to write the same check to the Elk's Lodge 777 I could claim the deduction. But while I'm sure they would turn the money over to the Ship, if the decided not to, I'd have no say in the matter. The Elk's own a very nice building down town. They do not have any place to store large items like vehicles or Boats. They made it very clear that they do not want their parking lot filled with our equipment.(They have given us a small room for storing small equipment that we use for meetings.) They also made it very clear that should the Ship die that they want no part in trying to get rid of this type of equipment. I asked our Council if they would accept the donations. The SE at the time had come from Long Island and said that in that Council they had a problem with trying to get rid of boats that people donated. They ended up selling them at auction. Most of the Boats that people donate are past their prime and didn't sell for anything like the people who donated them thought they were worth or didn't sell. This left the Council with the job of getting rid of them, again this this make the donors very happy. Bottom line was he said that the Council wanted no part in donated boats. I own a fair amount of property and several buildings which can be used to store boats. One thing a lot of people who are willing to donate boats want to know is where the boats will be stored. So storage wasn't a problem. We originally set up the 501 just to accept donations. But... Friends Of Sea Scout Ship 777, is not really part of the Council (Sea Scout Ship 777, which is chartered by the Elk's is part of the Council.) Friends Of is a PA. Registered Charity and non-profit corporation in its own right and does not come under the jurisdiction of the Council and if we wanted does not have to follow the fund raising rules of the BSA. (We could if we wanted have the Friends of Sea Scout Ship 777 sell tickets - not the Sea Scouts.) We can also pursue foundation and grant money. The Council doesn't like this. At present our local United Way is de-funding 39 Organizations which have endowment funds. (Nothing to do with Gays or God) They (the UW) feel that giving money to organizations that has large amounts of money set aside. Needless to say not everyone agrees with them. The United Way feels it wants to do more to help start up organizations and supply the "Feed Money" So I applied. The people in their office were really great. We made a big case of there not being a lot of recreational activities for teenage girls in our area. We ended up with $750.00. We are hoping that they will help come up with some of the money we need for a 15 seater van. So far the Van fund has several thousand dollars, all of which came in as donations to the friends.... As a rule I'm not big on "Loop Holes". But I don't think our Council left us much choice. We are happy to follow the rules. As Sea Scouts we comply with all the BSA guide lines as Friends of Sea Scout Ship 777 we follow the rules laid down by the state. The paperwork that went into becoming a 501 was a real nightmare. While the Council may feel that we are endangering their efforts to raise money.The people at the United Way didn't see it that way. In fact they want to see lot more smaller organizations come to them and they want to see the money spent at the grass roots level. While the aim is of course to serve the Sea Scouts, the 501(3)© is in its own way not part of the BSA, much as the money the Elk's donate to the Ship is not part of the Council or the BSA. The Council is of course free to look for all the foundation and grant money that is available to them as a 501(3)©, but as we are one in our own right have the same right. If the Council doesn't like it -Well that's their problem, they don't have any say in it. After all if they had accepted the donations in the first place... Eamonn.

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going" The big question is where will they go? Sounds as if a good sort out and house cleaning is in order. I think the COR really does need to get involved. While no one seems to know what reason the SM has for not doing his job. It seems clear that he isn't doing it and this just isn't fair to the Scouts, the parents and the CO. The Committee Chair. Needs to take charge of the Committee. If there is dead wood there and a couple of people are disrupt the smooth running of the unit they need to be put in their place. A nominating committee should be got together and should start working on selecting a new SM and maybe a couple of new ASM's. You don't say the size of the Troop? But if getting them to camp is a problem why not rent vans. A 15 seater van in our area costs about $80.00 for a weekend that's only about $5.50 a Scout. Eamonn

"Now that someone has offered a boat for us to sell they seem to be dragging their feet to tell us how to make this happen." This can be a big problem!! You really need to talk to someone who has a good working knowledge of the IRS. All sorts of things can come into play. The condition of the boat. Fair Use. But as I understand it. If the council accepts the boat it can offer a receipt which the donor can use for a tax deduction. The Council is a 501(3)© The Ship isn't. Of course if they accept the boat it becomes the property of the Council and if it were sold the money should go to the Council. The Council might run into a problem if the when the Council books are audited it shows that they made a donation to the sailing club who owns the Ship. This is one reason we spent the money to become a 501(3©. It cost us about $800.00 Eamonn.

Sea Scout insurance has been a hot topic in the Sea Scout discussion pages. You might want to talk to the people in your flotilla. I know the pros in our Council are about as useful as pockets in your underwear when it comes to insurance matters. Maybe the person who heads the Properties Committee in your Council? I'd sent a letter to the Council Vice President for Program and the Council Commissioner. I'd copy the Council President and the Scout Executive. That ought to get the wheels moving. If the DE doesn't know, he is lightly to go on about the BSA Liability insurancee and when it comes to Sea Scouting you need to patch a few holes. Eamonn.

Leaders who don't follow the program? Some think that they know best. Some have fallen into the "We always do it this way!" trap. While some Councils and Districts do a better job of training than others. All the information is out there and not that hard to find. Sure when I was District Commissioner there were a couple of units that for the sake of the Scouts in the units, I wished would close. Sadly it seems to take a long time for a dieing unit to draw it's last breath and every now and then something happens and they start to recover. But with the set up we have with CO who can close a unit? With the goals that Districts and DE's face, no one wants to see a unit close. Many of the CO's seem to not know that the Scouting unit is a part of their organization. This lack of ownership leads to lack of caring. I wonder if the local Parish Priest were to take as much pride in the church Scout unit as he and the Parish Council take in the choir, if things would be different? Our church has replaced Choir Leaders because it seemed that the choir wasn't a good reflection of the church. If they were to do the same with Scoutmasters and Committee Chairs, maybe things would be different. Maybe a lot more people would post here that they felt they had been dismissed unfairly? I really feel that we seem to have a break down in communication when it comes to telling the CO the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. We seem so concerned and worried about losing a unit, that the CO is kept in the dark. DE's seem to be so busy either doing program stuff that the volunteers ought to be doing or "Busy work" that they are not taking the time to have real face to face meetings with the CO and the Executive Officer from the CO, they are so worried about losing the unit that the fail to talk about the soft spots. When will we all wake up and see that kids who are getting a lot out of the program do more to support the program, their parents are more willing to support the program and their local community sees the good Scouting can do and is more willing to support the program? When are we going to admit that units that do a poor job hurt Scouting? I'm not that clever, but I'm happy to compete with video games and kids who just want to hang out, I'm willing to work around and with sport programs and bands. Bad haircuts and baggy pants don't hide the Scout. Heck I'm even starting to like Rap music!! I do not believe that sticking a kid in a Scout uniform makes him or her into a little Angel, I do believe that we the leaders get the kids we deserve. (Even if some of them are a challenge!!) Eamonn

"I would have really liked "National" give us ideas to improve the program than just say to cut everything" The program is for the most part fine and dandy. Give it a chance and it works. The problem is in the delivery. We the volunteers are in the delivery business. I think just about every person who visits this site could list reasons why kids are not joining Scouts. I for one am fed up to the hind teeth with new and innovative ideas that will "Fix " the problem. I know that this is the 21st century. I'm more than willing to move with the times. I really wish that someone would tell the guys at "National" that kids don't give a hoot about "Timeless Values" Hey!! This isn't rocket science. Kids want to have fun, they want to do exciting and adventurous activities, they like being challenged. New leaders want to know how to do the every day stuff: How to run a Den Meeting or Troop Meeting. How to go about raising money to get the kids away to participate in the adventurous activities. When I read about us selling off camps, I'm reminded of the story about the cliff. At the top of the cliff there was a very nasty bend, with no guard rail, every month or so a car would drive off the cliff. At the bottom of the cliff was a small town. The people in the small town seen the cars coming over the cliff. So they got together and raised money to buy the best possible ambulance. They were all very proud of their ambulance and boasted about how many lives they saved. Still year after year the cars drove off the cliff because there wasn't a rail. We seem happy to spend big bucks on offices and are willing to pay more and more people to help support Scouting -When what we need is just a guard rail Eamonn.

" Most of these older scouts are not attending the campout, in fact, they rarely attend any campouts " I find this really sad and have to wonder why? Eamonn.