EagleInKY

What's your role in the troop? This will help us give an answer specific to what you can do.

I'll give you some "real world" advice. All of these decisions can be put in the hands of the boys. This is the way it's done in many (hopefully most) troops around the world. What you are struggling with is adults not willing to trust boys to make decisions.

First, let's make sure we understand the roles:

- PLC - Responsible for planning and carrying out the troop and patrol's annual program.

- SM and ASMs - Responsible for overseeing the program and guiding the scouts through the process. This includes advising them on planning and running activities.

- Committee - Provides the "ways and means" to carry out the program.

So, the PLC gets together and makes a plan. The SM (who is advising them) helps lead them toward a plan that is reasonable and matches well with the goals and objectives of scouting. The plan is submitted to the committee and the committee figures out how to enable them to do it. Let's say the scouts say "we want to do x". If for some reason the committee doesn't think they should do "x", they should provide feedback to the SM and PLC and let them look for an alternative plan that meets their approval.

Now let's talk about your specific examples. The boys decide they want to make a float in the parade. They figure out that they can use a couple of troop meetings to do some work on it, and then dedicate a Saturday to finishing the float. They determine that they will need $200 in materials, a place to build the float and a vehicle to pull it. They submit the plan to the committee. The committee needs to assist them in gathering the resources (money, facility and vehicle). The committee can't just veto the activity because they don't "like it". However, if there are concerns (no place to build it, the troop can't afford it, etc.), then they can have a valid reason to discuss it.

On your Summer Camp example, I think the boys have done fine. The biggest deal with summer camp is not conflicting with too many schedules and making sure you have adult coverage. So, if the boys have chosen what camp they want to go to and have narrowed it down to a couple of weeks, then I think they've done their job. Let the adults figure out which one works best with their collective schedules. Ultimately, I believe this is in the hands of the adults that will be going - which is typically your SM and ASMs.

What we do for Summer Camp is use the same week every year. It's easy to remember and makes it easier to plan. Everyone knows what week we'll be going. (Assuming we don't get into a situation where a camp we want to go to doesn't have room).

Raising the money (through donations of materials or cash) is part of the Eagle Project. From what I've seen, most of the money is solicited from the people who will benefit the most from it. In this case, I'd suggest trying to get donations from the church members. Also, a lot of scouts will ask for money from the families in their troop. Another common method is to go to local businesses and ask for their financial support.

It sounds like your patrols haven't bonded too well. Perhaps it's because scouts were assigned to patrols. Or, perhaps your troop does everything as a troop and they don't see the importance of them. Either way, you need to fix it at its root.

If patrols were organized by adults, shake it up. Let the boys pick who they want to be in patrols with. Make it fun and exciting. Make them want to get in the patrol with their friends. We adults tend to try to balance patrols out (by numbers, ability, etc.). That makes it efficient for us, but not fun for the boys.

How to make an effective phone tree? The number one thing is for the adults and the troop leaders to not answer the phone the night before an activity. Or, if you do answer the phone, tell them to contact their patrol leader. It will take a while, but once you force communication down the PLs, the communications will flow better.

Troop webpages are also very helpful, as long as they are kept up to date.

I agree with the other posters regarding the question about the importance of scouting. They won't care about military perks or college scholarships (their parents might). They need to believe that scouting is FUN and that they'll miss something if they aren't there. This starts with a fun, exciting program.

Good luck!

I was going to follow-up my post with the idea of venturing as well. This certainly is an option if there is a crew in your area. Or, if there's not, maybe your troop can start one. But don't try to beat the system either. Registering him as a venturer (where 18 is still a youth) doesn't get around the adult rules in the Boy Scout Troop. Yeah, it's awkward, and these rules sometimes gets confusing, but that's why we get paid the big bucks.

The only position he can hold in the troop is ASM. He is no longer a scout. He is not old enough to be a SM or Committee Member (the age requirement for them is 21).

This is very important to understand - HE IS NO LONGER A SCOUT! He cannot advance as a scout, participate as a scout and most importantly - tent as a scout. He is now an adult. If he wishes to stay with the troop, he should fill out an adult application as an ASM. And, yes, I would strongly encourage YPT, since he probably never realized all the limits that we must live by as adult leaders.

It's great that he wants to be around. Young adult leaders can bring a great deal of energy to the troop. But, he must understand that he is now in a different role and must act differently. There are new rules he must follow and lines he must not cross.

As for the thought that "hey, other parents camp with us that aren't registered", the issue here is that he is not a parent. I would ask you if you would let an 18 or 19 year old friend of one of your scouts attend "just for fun". I'm sure the answer is no. So, just because he used to be a scout doesn't get him around this.

I know you are trying to be nice and don't want to have the awkward conversation. But you must.

Good luck.

You could probably edit this passage to make it more palatable.

-Adult run Troops are more structured and predictable but offer less opportunity for Scouts to learn by leading. This is not the model promoted by Baden-Powell or the Boy Scouts of America. It should be noted that some younger troops have a higher percentage of adult leadership. However, these troops should have a plan to migrate away from adult leadership as soon as it is reasonable."

Our camporees are break-even events (hopefully).

This sounds very much like our DAC. He's been doing it this way for 20 years. In general, I'm supportive of the process. While things can occasionally be taken too far (like Semper's 180 page workbook), requiring neat, accurate work for something this important is not unreasonable. We've watered down the standards on so much, I think it's reasonable to demand the best for this highest honor. I'm not saying College level (or even advanced high school English-level), but a reasonableness factor should be employed.

I abhor adding to the requirements, but if work is illegible, what good is it? I've rejected blue cards where I couldn't read the name of the scout or the Merit Badge. The DAC should have some latitude in demanding a quality product as well.

The only requirements are First Class rank and SM Approval. I have had some young First Class scouts that I did not put on the list their first time around. It was purely a maturity issue. Perhaps the rules have changed. Or, your SM may have set an arbitrary age limit. I personally don't agree with that, I'd base it on the maturity level of the scout.

Welcome from the Sunny side of the river. Glad to have you on board.

Great post Barry!

Ditto ScoutingAgain's post. Exactly what I was going to say. C'mon people, it's your Driver's License number. It's not (supposed to be) used for anything else.

Our CO is a Baptist Church. Our COR is a member that is former military, very outdoor-oriented guy and works with the youth from their church. I think it's a good fit. He doesn't participate as much as he'd like, mainly because his job requires him to work a lot of evenings.

As for the original question, since the COR is the Charter Organization Representative (i.e. a representative of the CO), I believe he has to be part of that organization. It doesn't make sense for the COR to come from the unit's parents (unless they are also a member, then that's a great fit).

For an easy, inexpensive, light entry-bag, I love my Slumberjack Denali Quest (40 degree). It's a little over 2 lbs and packs very small (thermalite insulation). Several of our scouts have bought it at my recommendation and love it as well. Sadly, this model isn't made anymore. I haven't found anything that I liked any more for the price (you could get it for about $40). While rated to 40 degrees, it could easily handle lower levels with a fleece liner. My son camped in a survival shelter this weekend with it and a fleece blanket (temps down in the 30s) and didn't get cold.

Slumberjack has some newer models that look similar but weigh a little more. I assume they are comparable products.

For cold weather I have my North Face 10 degree bag. (I don't camp any colder than that).

I'm glad this ruling went this way. When I heard about it a while back I was very concerned that some judge would try to legislate from the bench (something they're good at in California).

We have a number of special needs kids in our program. We work with the parents for the appropriate level of assistance and involvement required. We've never had a problem with it until last year. We had a family show up to join our pack in which the every member of the family was deaf. They wanted us to provide an interpreter for them at all activities. Someone from the school district told them we had to because of ADA. I confirmed with our Council that we did not. The family ended up dropping out, unfortunately. They're probably very disappointed with scouting. But we simply couldn't afford it. The cost of the interpreter would have shut us down completely.

Let him finish his term. I've never heard of such. During your next election/appointment cycle, appoint him to be JASM (if he wants it). What if he's not 16 yet? Isn't that a requirement for JASM? What if he prefers to run again for SPL, would you let him?

Garth Brooks, or so I'm told. Especially since I grew a goatee last year.

I've found that lack of advancement causes fall into one of two camps. Either the scout isn't very active or he just isn't very aware. Here's some examples.

Scout #1 has been in since last summer. He'll attend a troop meeting or two in a row, and then we won't see him for 6-8 weeks. Someone (an adult or maybe the Troop Guide) will pick up the phone and call them to see what's up. Suddenly he'll be back for a meeting or two. He attends summer camp and maybe one or two other campouts. In sixteen months, he still hasn't made Tenderfoot. Yep, that's right. Tenderfoot. A few months ago his dad asks me what he needed to do for his son to advance. I told him that I could answer it with one word. His son needed to participate. He showed up for another meeting or two, and then disappeared until I e-mailed him directly a few weeks ago. This family used to give me heartburn, now I just don't worry about it. We may have a 17 year old Scout some day still trying to earn Tenderfoot.

Scout #2 is very involved. His dad is an ASM. He seldom misses a troop meeting or an activity. By virtue of "being there" he's advanced through First Class in a little over a year. (What I mean is that if you are present this much, you are sure to advance through the early ranks, just through the normal program). He's been ready for Star for almost three months. The thing is, he didn't realize it. Their advancement status is always available to them. I've mentioned in my SM Minute at a few meetings that there were guys who just needed to do a very little to advance. Still, it took him a few months to realize he just needed his SM Conference and Board of Review. When he finally asked for his conference I laughed and asked him what took him so long. He just shrugged and said he didn't know that he was ready for it.

What I do to try and help.... I try to make advancement status publicly known (hoping for positive peer pressure). I make individual advancement and history reports readily available to families through our website. And I (or other adults) regularly encourage scouts to take ownership of their advancement. This three-pronged approach (peers, parents and adult leaders) tends to be all the motivation most boys need. Except for those who are absent or unaware.

Welcome from just down the road. Glad to have you at our campfire.

sst3rd -

I understand where you are coming from and don't disagree entirely with your thought.

BUT (there's always a but, isn't there).

Whether you went to the old traditional outdoor skills-oriented Woodbadge, or the new-fangled leadership-skills oriented Woodbadge of the 21st Century, you have gone out of your way to grow as a Scout Leader. You gave up either a week or multiple weekends of your time for the training itself. You then set five goals for yourself that would be for the betterment of your unit, district, council, etc. This effort should not be downplayed or ignored. A small percentage of scouters actually take the time to go the course, and even fewer work their ticket. So they deserve some honor and recognition.

As for where to do it the recognition, I believe it should be done in the setting where it has had the biggest impact. If your ticket primarily helped the district, then do it at a district roundtable or recognition dinner. If it helped the pack committee, do it at a pack committee meeting, if it helped the troop, do it at a court of honor.

A few weeks ago I received my beads. We did it at the end of our troop's Court of Honor. It wasn't even an agenda item on the program, just inserted before my Scoutmaster's Minute at the end. I asked them to try and keep it simple (10 minutes or less), but it lasted 15-20. Nevertheless, I had dozens of parents and several scouts come up to me afterward and congratulate me and thank me for making the effort to improve our troop.

So, I agree that it should be done without a lot of fanfare. It also shouldn't get in the way of the boy's recognition or program. But I do believe it has a place in Courts of Honor and other special events.

Our school doesn't charge us if (1) we have a school employee or PTA officer present, which is never a problem, (2) it's during the janitor's normal working hours, and (3) we clean up after ourselves. None of these are ever an issue, so we've been able to use the school from time-to-time. We keep this to a minimum, as to not risk losing the option. They've been pretty good to us over the years.

Ditto Scoutldr's thoughts. I'm having a tough time with our current SPL. If something doesn't get done, he shrugs and moves on. The boys in the troop have gotten frustrated with it, but no one else wants to step up to take responsibility. Therefore, even with the frustration, they re-elected him this time.

Bruce - I know that the Lincoln Heritage Council has a District Executive assigned to "Scouting Unlimited". She has responsibility for special units and related services. You can contact them. Here's the website which has contact info.

http://www.lhcbsa.org

Leave it to Weird Al to bring out some humor on the topic. From his new CD:

http://www.dontdownloadthissong.com/

To quote Col. Hannibal Smith of The A-Team, "I love it when a plans come together".

Congrats on where you've come. Enjoy this time. Your role is now one of observing and guiding instead of demonstrating and doing. It takes adjustment. Also, be cognizant to the fact that your scouts can (and likely will) revert to their old ways at times. You'll have to adjust your style to where they are. When they revert, be prepared to step in and coach them along. I've found that recognizing this to be as much of a challenge as getting them there in the first place.

Good luck to you and your troop.