Eagledad

Hi All

>>I don't know why a parent's presence at a PPC would inhibit a boy's input.

Is this the same stuff the outfitters give out that says can be used from washing dishes to brushing teeth?

No I didn't, but it says you could.

Hmmm, learn something new everyday.

Barry

Hi All

>>OK One-hour How about this. Meet only with the PLC. Give them the G2SS section covering the water activities and a float trip planner. Explain in an overview how to tell required policies from suggested practices. Then tell the the troop wants do do this activty and will, just as soon as they make a plan that covers all the required policies.

>>Why wouldn't you bring soap? We brought biodegradable soap that was used for cleaning ourselves and cleaning cooking gear. In both cases we were careful to keep soap way away from the lake.

I will throw in another fun Winter weekend our troop goes to now and then. Trappers Rendezvous just north of Wichita Kansas. It's on a three-day weekend, January 16 thru 18. It's well worth the trip and a lot, a lot of fun for the scouts. Over 3500 scouts the last time we went. Here is the address for their web site.

http://www.quivira.org/Trappers/

It is not a warm campout like in Southern Texas, but something different and fun. Lots of mountain men and women rein-actors to trade all kinds of stuff and to demonstrate skills of mountain men. We adults find it very relaxing.

If you consider this, the scouts need to take stuff to trade because they will do it all day.

Barry

OK! Took a little longer than I thought. Two moments?

JBKHIKER answered the question, but here is a little more from Calvin, SM in Texas.

Tell him to e-mail the Philmont camping department and ask for a Kanik

brochure. The brouchures for the 2004-05 Kanik program have been

available for about a month.

The e-mail address is: camping@philmontscoutranch.org

I've been on three Kanik adventures, including one during our Spring Break

in March. The best one was in 2000 as we had more snow that year than in

'02 & '04. He can read about (and view a slide show) our 2000 trip here:

http://www.troop405.org/camps/Kanik.htm

As far opportunities in Texas are concerned, the only real Winter type one

I know about is the Buffalo Trail Scout Ranch in the Davis Mountains of

west Texas. They don't have an organized Winter program but troops can go

there and backpack. They have 9,500 acres, including quite a few miles of

backpacking trails. Many times, they have snow in the Winter and early

Spring. Additional information is on this web page:

http://www.buffalotrailbsa.org/camping/btsr_weekendcamping.html

Many of the Texas councils have organized Winter Camps but they are like

summer camp in that merit badges are featured. My council (Capitol Area)

has one (two 3-day sessions) in December but we stopped attending after

2002 because of the large class sizes. For example, 45+ boys in the

Camping MB class being taught by a 17 year old boy who spent most of his

time reading from the MB booklet. After complaining about the quality of

the instruction for several years, I finally gave up and decided to look

for something different for our guys. T.W. Cook tells me the 2003 Winter

Camp was much better but having 350 boys in what is basically a merit

badge mill for Eagle required badges isn't what I'm looking for.

Hope this helps.

Barry

HI All

It's time for an adult meeting and you have to be frank about the damage it is causing. You can't make a person feel guilt, it has to come from them. So put it to them, explain how their personal agenda is hurting the agenda of the other 20 or 30 scouts and you need their help or the troop will suffer.

I'm one that doesnt care much for the BSA's present Venturing Patrol idea. It tends to divide a troop more than it helps hold on to older scouts. I have always like the idea of a temporary Venture Patrols. Patrols that only exist for that one outing. The idea requires at least two adults who work as advisers to the scout leading the patrol. Once the outing is over, all the members go back to their regular patrols. The requirements to this patrol would be have the maturity and training for the outing. Not age, rank or popularity. It can be anything to a weekend campout to a 10 day hike in Alaska. We had one for going to Six Flags. You will be amazed how quickly these guys will learn how to plan and lead the group. Their skills will grow by leaps and bounds and young scouts can participate in many of the activities as you all ready know. Take this problem and make it into a bonus for your troop.

Present that or something like that to the adults and maybe between the learning that they are hurting the program and modifying their outings into a program to developing leadership and planning skills, you might be able to get these guys on board to scheduling their outings and including the rest of the troop.

That is just one thought. You need to get it fixed though, Ive seen this kind of thing tear down a troop.

Good luck

Barry

OK, good question. I know of several troops in our area that go, but I've not done it myself. So I don't know who to ask. I do have a friend I will contact. One moment please.

Barry

I've heard some good things about the Texas camps and Philmont has a good Winter program as well.

Barry

I should have explained, if you don't do the lock in, which for our guys is something specail for the PLC, this JLT only takes about three hours max including the hour for teambuilding and PIZZA!

Good question.

Barry

Hi All

We do exactly this after each election. We found experienced scouts don't need full JLT training every six months. Instead all they need is some information about their specific job.

Here is our agenda.

1. 20 min on the Troop leadership structure from the Chartering organization down to the Patrol Leaders.

2. 30 min on each youth leader job description and the expectations of each Youth Leadership position on the PLC.

3. 10 min Scoutmaster explaining the Aims and Methods of Scouting. Usually this is where the PLCs job and the adults job.

4. 60 min for each scout to visit with his adviser to set goals based from the SPL goals. And some training or build a schedule for training.

5. Overnight Lock in for team building, fun and pizza for PLC members only.

It has worked very well for several years. For those 17 year old scouts who have been there and done that many many times, this type of training is short and sweet and basically only what they need to get started. One thing I teach adults who want to do this is have the advisers is teach only enough for the scouts to get through the first couple of weeks. I found they just don't listen for more than that because they think their job will be easy. After two weeks, the advisors need to meet with their scout again and let him ask questions.

Have a fun meeting.

Barry

>>He never acts on his homosexuality and is otherwise a model scout. His friend violates the confidence and everyone finds out. Throw him out?

Happy Scouting All

OK, there lots of fun stuff to comment on, but I pick boleta first because he seemed off track.

>>You guys continue to amaze me.

First, the bible has nothing to do with duty to God, reverence and the BSA. This organization includes Buddhism, Hinduism and Zoroastrianism.>. So if we are going to have a discussion about these topics and try to keep it relevant to BSA, stop bringing your own version of Christian morality into it.

>>As for boys in tents, if that were really the concern the policy would not be limited to those who are "openly" gay.

Hmm OK.

Take a roll of duct tape like silver-shark mentioned. It can be used for many things, but we went through a lot with two pairs of boots soles coming off the boots. It's perfect to plug holes in canoes and dry sacks, especially if the canoes are kevlar. And, I believe it's better than mole skin in preventing blisters.

As for water. The locals will tell you to canoe out in the lake about 100' and get your water there. It's clean, safe and taste very good. I'm not saying don't use your water filters, but we have never had a problem.

I would suggest taking extra deet. You may be fine, but someone else my over use it or loose it. Mosquetos are and interesting subject. It may be the time of summer, early August, but we never found them to be a big problem on the lakes until it got dark. Then watch out, it's like a horror movie. I put a little deet on my sleeves, collar and shoes kept them at bay, until dark and then you just need to be in your tent. Flys are a different story. Those guys can bite a nasty hole in your skin, even on the lake. So I save my deet for them. I never put the deet on my skin.

I'm not sure you will need long underwear. We took one bed sheet with us because we found it so warm that we sleep on top of the sleeping bag.

You didn't say if you were using an outfitter or not. If so, they usually provide a lot of camp suds and tolet paper.

Barry

Hi hotdesk

OK, just to start, leave the cotton socks and take three pairs of hiking socks with three pair of sock liners. No cotton because they will never dry and that will ruin your feet. More than backpacking, I think the liners are important because your feet will be wet while canoeing and portaging.

You will need more fishing equipment, more lures, jigs and worms.

Playing cards. Book?

Explain the food to me. Are you taking your own food or is it provided by an outfitter? How many in your crew.

Barry

>>that he agreed to... that played into his strengths... and he STILL refuses to help out?" will turn that PL right around and have him looking for a better way to motivate.

>>He has tried to teach leadership and has tried to give guidance, but like I said the scout simply doesn't take it and goes toward more immature things like beating the scout with a chair.

>>I do wonder if he was just in over his head and these outbursts were just him allowing a lot of built up frustration erupt and spew out?

Hi All

>>I tell our boys, that they don't want me involved, because chances are, someone is going home early, and won't be attending again soon.

Once this has happened, it is up to the Troop Committee to decide if this boy has a furture in the Troop or not.

>>HOWEVER, neither tattoos or piercings are a big enough issue for me to make a problem for a boy over. For those in my sphere of influence, I attempt to explain (sometimes often) that there isn't enough value in such ornamentation to make it worth the hassle, but if I can't be successful convincing him, it's a dead issue. It's not my place to allow metal or ink displayed in what I consider a silly manner to effect how I treat a boy.

Hi All

>>My son with his Army Surplus supplies got to visit the foot doctor when we returned. His boots shrunk and then fell apart.>Be prepared to be wet and dirty, you are going to be both.

Great post Thumper. I willing to bet todays lunch that your troop is considered a very boy run troop. We have a similer story with a scout that left his big brothers troop because he also wasn't considered "Boy Scout Material".

Our troop has aquired several such scouts in the last decade. The mother of one once asked why her son was accepted here and not in some of the other troops. I believe boy run programs naturally encourage each scout to grow as and individual and the adults guide the whole of the program each scout at a time. The scouts become more excepting of each others differences because a team is required for a program to succeed and grow.

It's not always easy because individual quirks can be offensive to some. But when such scouts make it, well I can only say I love this scouting stuff.

Again, thanks for wonderful words Thumper.

Barry

Hi All

My Oklahoma BSA plate on my convertible is personalize to, get this, "EGLEDAD".

Barry

Good Morning All

>>Summer Camp still seems to be a Merit Badge mill. Even with the new syllabi created for camp, the staff seemed reluctant to use them. And, heaven-forbid they need to "fail" a scout.