Order of the Arrow sashes are to be worn at OA events only. Merit Badge and Order of the Arrow sashes are not to be worn on the belt, as a head band, as suspenders, etc.
Do some condone bad behavior? Yes. Does that make it right? No.
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Your answer is way too simplistic and does NOTHING to support your reasoning
I think you too have missed the point of this thread entirely.
So wearing the OA sash in an "unauthorized" manner considered "bad behavior?"
I hope I interpreted that wrong. But I don't think I did.
Gosh, I wonder why more people don't sign up and join the BSA?
- Jan 2010
Here in northern Maryland, most of the troops dont have OA elections, Most of the younger scouts don't even know that the Order even exists! and by younger I mean 10-15 years old. As others have said the flap is not going to generate the same " Cool,What is that for?" as a sash unless you add some red blinking LEDs. A number of SM have told me " No, the election team can not come to our troop. It's a boy run troop, if the PLC votes for OA elections THEN we will have them and not until. " but how can they vote for what they can't see?
As my scout life was greatly enriched by the order I find this very sad.
BadenP - my answer was simplistic because the answer is simple.
I'm troubled by the all too familiar Scouter.com post that goes something like this:
The BSA states that A but I've witnessed B. Does your council/district/troop do B?
Who cares? Why don't folks just follow the rules - they are quite simple. People rob banks, spit on the sidewalk, wear OA pocket flaps without keeping up with their OA dues and all sorts of other activities that are wrong - some small and some big. Regardless, that doesn't make it right.
Order of the Arrow sashes are to be worn properly or not at all. Properly consists of across the right shoulder at OA events only - period. It is that simple.
"Who cares? Why don't folks just follow the rules - they are quite simple. People rob banks, spit on the sidewalk, wear OA pocket flaps without keeping up with their OA dues and all sorts of other activities that are wrong - some small and some big. Regardless, that doesn't make it right. Order of the Arrow sashes are to be worn properly or not at all. Properly consists of across the right shoulder at OA events only - period. It is that simple. "
It's nice to know that another Arrowman sees it like I do. The uniforming guidelines for the OA Sash are straigtforward requiring no interpretation. Thanks for mentioning the OA pocket flap - I'm a big stickler of that one and agree that it should not be worn if you will not pay the meager annual dues.
- Apr 2004
Oh, I think much of the thrust of this discussion has been about whether the guidelines for sash wear make sense, or should be changed in order to accomplish certain goals.
"Oh, I think much of the thrust of this discussion has been about whether the guidelines for sash wear make sense, or should be changed in order to accomplish certain goals."
Well, I think they make sense and I see no reason to change them.
Again, we wear the sash at OA events AND when we are doing stuff AS Arrowmen.
I'm all for raising awareness of the Order, but I'd rather it be in conjunction with the Order DOING SOMETHING, not just wear the sash. That strikes me a little too much of showing off.
Have nothing against wearing the OA sash at other scouting events (or even in the community) so long as its in conjunction with the OA DOING STUFF at those events (providing meaningful service or the like), and the only ones who should be wearing it should be those involved in said service, not just because you happened to be at the event. (hint hint- may give some a reason to join in and help...)
acco, jeffrey, emb021
Man you guys have some real issues don't you, lol. Look as dkurt said, "Do the rules governing sash wear make sense?" The reality is that in many councils, and in my attending several NOAC's the OA is losing ground, losing membership, districts and even some councils have lost interest in even promoting the OA. In the four councils in my area alone, two have closed their lodges and the other two are struggling to just hold on to their lodges. In a couple of conferences between these councils OA adult and youth leaders,one distinct issue keeps popping up, the adult OA leaders dominating the running of the lodges and trying to mold them into their own childhood image of the lodges of their youth.
Listen the BSA has been changing their boy scout program to try to curtail the continued downward spiral in numbers and troops. The OA is in the same boat only it is sinking faster. If some new ideas, more promotion, less adult control and more youth control of the program are not infused into the OA and soon the OA will become an inactive, meaningless, and hollow symbol.
You three may think you have the best interest of the OA at heart but your arguments are outdated, counterproductive, and somewhat anal retentive. WWW
- Jan 2011
Oldscout, your issue has been brought up more than once in the OA forum, but bottom line, how visible is your lodge? If every year the scouts come back from summer camp, wowed by a call out or other ceremony, talking nonstop to the SM about this cool thing called the "OA" and how do they get in it, I expect you'll get a different response from the one you're getting now.
The lodge has to be it's best recruiter for the OA, because it's typically the only recruiter for the OA.
As far as wearing sashes at COAs, Baden P made a good point: the OA needs all the help it can get.
"Man you guys have some real issues don't you, lol."
I can't speak for others, but I don't have any issues.
"Listen the BSA has been changing their boy scout program to try to curtail the continued downward spiral in numbers and troops. The OA is in the same boat only it is sinking faster. If some new ideas, more promotion, less adult control and more youth control of the program are not infused into the OA and soon the OA will become an inactive, meaningless, and hollow symbol."
And what does any of this have to do with proper wear of insignia? Any insignia?
Am very much behind youth run. You don't know me, so don't act like you do.
Am very much a support of the OA **DOING STUFF** to promote itself. NOT in meaningless gestures like wearing a sash and NOTHING ELSE. Wearing a sash and doing nothing is else bragging. Its that "inactive, meaningless, and hollow symbol" you speak of. And a servant leader doesn't brag. He/she let's his actions speak.
BEST way for the OA to promote itself is NOT by having its members wear sashes at events. It's by having members DOING STUFF at events. Have the OA serve as staff for events, or run part of the program. In my council, we will have the OA do stuff like run booths, activities, man parking, have a grill, etc. THAT is what has impact.
"You three may think you have the best interest of the OA at heart but your arguments are outdated, counterproductive, and somewhat anal retentive. WWW "
I'm simply speaking to proper wearing of insignia which includes the OA Sash. If we want to argue the merits of the OA program, what it could be doing better, what it should be doing, or if it should be dissolved, those conversations can be reserved for the OA forum.
This issue is ONLY about wearing the OA sash to other scout functions, it has NOTHING to do with insignia wear. The OA sash is a symbol of membership, it publicizes a boys membership in the OA lodge. If a boy is proud of that membership and wants to show it, why not, because of a couple of lines in a handbook written by a bunch of old farts at National who want to treat the OA as some kind of secret fraternal order, give me a break. If you three want to get all anal on this issue go right ahead and together we can watch the continuing demise of the OA.
The OA needs to be promoted much more than it is in ALL councils, it needs to be viewed as a source of fun and service for the boys. What it does NOT NEED is a bunch old fogey scouters dictating what how and when each lodge should be run and maintaining an iron hand on the control switch because that will be the final death stroke for the OA.
When did the OA manual and BSA insignia guide become holy writ? Did I miss that memo?
BadenP, you said it best.
The OA becomes a lesser organization, by every measure, with each passing year.
- May 2008
As a Lodge Adviser, I do not police people and when they wear their OA sash. I limit my input about uniforms to adults and encourage them to wear it properly, i.e. no patrol patches and the Lodge flap for my Council if they have paid their dues. I do it in a courteous manner and sometimes joke with them about it. I'll explain to them National policy regarding membership and insignia for OA flaps and leave it at that. If I see them again and they haven't replaced their flap, I'll remind them.