Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Updates to youth protection training

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Updates to youth protection training

    I had a long discussion with a volunteer who's helping me with a non-scouting family shelter program at a Catholic church. We were discussing the required youth protection training. The end-result of the discussion was that we'd like to see both the BSA and Catholic church training programs improved.

    Catholic church training is called Virtus. http://www.virtus.org. The training (when I took it years ago) is very much centered on recognizing abusers and situations used by abusers. Grooming (conditioning the victim for the abuse). Indicators such as certain types of touching (hair, shoulder massages, etc). This is way over simplified, but the point was recognizing abuse and calling it out.

    IMHO, BSA youth protection is very much about removing the opportunities for abuse through policies and procedures. And sometimes knowing when and who to contact about abuse.

    The trouble is the BSA training doesn't teach you about the nature of abuse and indicators that it's happening. I know some of the old video CDs had some of that, but even those were very limited compared to the Catholic Virtus training.

    On the flip side, the Catholic training doesn't establish strong policies and procedures such as no one-on-one contact. For the Catholic family shelter program that we are running, this is a rule I'm establishing. I also talk about the nature of the youth, the environment and male volunteers. (Sorry .. there is a double standard ... my attennea go up if I see a male volunteer too focused on picking up kids) Also, asking that people do not hesitate to call out situations that could be opportunities for abuse. For example, if you are going to walk thru the sleeping area, have two volunteers walk together thru the area, not one.

    SO MY QUESTIONS
    ---- Do others think BSA youth protection should be improved by teaching more about the nature of abuse and nature of the abusers?
    ---- Any news about potential updates to BSA youth protection?

    As far as I'm concerned, neither BSA or Catholic youth protection training were complete in and by themselves. I've really benefited by having taken both ... multiple times.
    Last edited by fred johnson; 12-27-2013, 04:46 PM.

  • #2
    The BSA on-line training did a little, but didn't harp on it. If you annually play the video you should for the youth, it is very explicit.. The cub scouts I think more so then the Boy Scouts, I feared I sent them home with nightmares when I played it once. I wish they would put it online so that we can direct the parents to it, and they can decide if they want to show it or not.

    I did the Catholic one this year, just starting to work for a Catholic Church with the scouting program this year.. I thought it was bad, I mean ours will never win an academy, but I thought it set it up so that you remembered what was presented.. All I got from the Catholic one was talking heads obviously reading from a teleprompter, and obvious they had no training in it, and had not practiced much.. So a monotone person reading.. That is all I remember of it, nothing else was memorable. I guess I retained enough to do the questions. I think sometimes I didn't then I had to get the questions and review the boring video to get the answers to retake.. Seriously, someone reading to me is the worst form of training for me.. It would have been best, if they gave me the script and let me read it for myself if they couldn't have gotten better trainers for the video.

    Comment


    • #3
      The State of Texas uses the BSA YP except it is done in a Face to Face presentation with an Instructor and you are required to stop and discuss the Segments and take a Written Test to pass.

      I think the program is fine..We are not Trained Professionals with years of Education in Pyschology

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
        I also talk about the nature of the youth, the environment and male volunteers. (Sorry .. there is a double standard ... my attennea go up if I see a male volunteer too focused on picking up kids)
        My idiot antennae just went up.

        Comment


        • fred johnson
          fred johnson commented
          Editing a comment
          Perhaps you walked by a mirror. Make a point, not an insult.

        • Scouter99
          Scouter99 commented
          Editing a comment
          While well-meaning but misguided folks like you have been giving me funny looks for daring to be a man working with kids, 3 women in my district have been arrested for screwing students.

          Your mindset is inherently flawed because it presupposes falsehoods and overemphasizes sex abuse thereby increasing opportunity for abuse.
          Last edited by Scouter99; 12-30-2013, 11:31 AM.

      • #5
        There are no updates to YPT coming. Quoting from the Membership Standards Implementation FAQ at http://www.scouting.org/filestore/tr...tation_FAQ.pdf.

        "This change in membership standards is not a youth protection issue. To consider it a youth protection issue would lead one to believe that sexual abuse and victimization is considered inherent to same-sex attraction. This is not the case."

        Comment


        • moosetracker
          moosetracker commented
          Editing a comment
          Statement is true enough, and something they should stress when people stress it as the reason that homosexuals should not be adult leaders.

          I still have no issue with troops that need to work out some logistics to make all scouts feel comfortable. But I am fine with other peoples suggestion to let the kids work it out for themselves, as long as the kids are made to feel comfortable that they are welcome to speak up and their concerns will be listened to seriously, rather then just phoo-phooing the concerns away.

          Nothing to do with sexual abuse or victimization, just simply sexual attraction, if someone is known to be gay and another feels they are perhaps flirting with them, they may not feel comfortable sharing a tent with them.

      • #6
        Here is an interesting article about the change on Jan 1st.. It has common questions asked in the forum, but with responses from BSA official. Most likely similar questions were asked if you went to the public gripe sessions just before the vote, but I hadn't gone to it as I didn't hear about it until after it took place.

        http://news.msn.com/us/boy-scouts-op...uth-on-jan-1-1

        Comment


        • #7
          Ahhhhhhh The Discussion about Youth Protection transgresses into a Homophobic discussion instead of The Program itself.

          Of all the Child Molesters I have encountered over the Last 10 Years 10 Months in as a Correctional Officer for Texas Department of Criminal Justice Institutional Division in a Maximum Security Prison, I have yet to encounter 1 that was involved with Boy Scouts of America...They have been Teachers, Policemen, Firemen, Doctors, Lawyers, Sport Coaches....Very Very Few have been unrelated to the Victim. 99% are Heterosexual and Usually Married..

          Awake up and pay attention of whats going on around ya. Take the Blinders off, view the Whole picture not just what ya want to see.

          Comment


          • scoutergipper
            scoutergipper commented
            Editing a comment
            I don't think you understand the meaning of the term "heterosexual."

          • jpstodwftexas
            jpstodwftexas commented
            Editing a comment
            het·er·o·sex·u·al
            adj.
            Sexually oriented to persons of the opposite sex.
            Of or relating to different sexes.
            ped·o·phile
            noun
            an adult who is sexually attracted to young children.

            There is a difference in a Heterosexual and a Pedophile...Being a Homosexual does not make you a Pedophile. Appears you don't understand the Meaning The statistics say that one out of every three to four girls has been sexually assaulted by the age of 18. One boy out of every six will be abused by the age of 18

          • Brewmeister
            Brewmeister commented
            Editing a comment
            When a man molests a boy, it by definition involves homosexual acts. That the molester claims to be herterosexual does not make it so.

        • #8
          My YPT training for the youth is quite simple. If ANYONE makes you feel uncomfortable about anything, tell an adult. If it's another scout, tell the SM/ASM or any other adult leader. If it's one of them, tell your parents, if it's your parents tell a teacher or your pastor, if it's one of them tell the police, if it's the police, tell anyone else that will listen. Keep telling until someone does something about it! The only thing you do NOT do is keep silent!

          Stosh

          Comment


          • #9
            Look up your states Sex Offender List...You will find they List the Age and Sex of the Victims...Count How many are Male Offender/ Male Victims, Male Offender/Female Victims, Female Offender/Female Victim and Female Offender/Male Victims....You will be Surprised the Vast Majority will be Heterosexuals who are Pedophile

            Comment


            • #10
              Take a Look at Wichita County....You will find that out of 203 Registered Sex Offenders Maybe 2 are Male Offender/Male Victims 2 are Female Offender/Male Victims

              Comment


              • #11
                With all due respect Jpstodwftexas, when I read statements that are incorrect wrong like no child molesters caught in the BSA or 99% of child molesters are married heterosexuals with kids, how can we trust any insight you give us in the future? That doesn't mean the BSA is more of a risk with gay molesters than other youth centered organizations, but it certainly isn't less either. Using the word homophobic only shows your bias on the subject and a lack of confidence of supporting your opinion in an intellectual discussion. Youth protection isn't the real issue of gay adult leaders anyway, it's gay adult role models. Role models have a real influence on youth. How does the BSA convince parents that a gay influence isn't dangerous to their sons. That is the elephant in the room. Barry

                Comment


                • #12
                  I never meant to start a discussion of who abuses or orientation or other.

                  I just meant that my Virtus training was more educational about the nature of abuse and BSA was more focused on policies and procedures. It seemed that both programs could benefit from the other. The Virtus training needs some focus on practices to remove opportunity. BSA training needs more inclusion about the nature of abuse and who abuses. ... without getting into orientation arguments.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Fred – You didn’t start the twist, dcsimmons took us down this curve. Most likely inevitable for about six more months until those frightened by this change settle down to the fact that little will change. About the Catholic vs BSA youth protection. I was always told that the Catholic Church took the BSA YPT as a model, I was disappointed when I saw the Catholic version.. It was a poor interpretation.. Again check out the videos.. One was titled “A Time to Tell” not sure if that was the BS or the CS one.
                    Eagledad – “That doesn't mean the BSA is more of a risk with gay molesters than other youth centered organizations, but it certainly isn't less either.”
                    True Eagledad, but the gay molesters will be a fraction of those that are married (with/without kids), divorced, or single heterosexuals. Again, molesters are not aroused by the sex (boy or girl) but on overpowering someone weaker then themselves. Most are neither homosexual or heterosexual, but they take on a backstory that is least suspicious.. That will not be those who backstory is of an openly homosexual person.

                    Comment


                    • moosetracker
                      moosetracker commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Scouter99 - Sorry - not an absolute. I did not use ALWAYS.. It is a statement which refers to majority of the time.. Yes, sometimes they think they love them, but most times they are using kindness not because they love them, but with children it is another form of control.

                      dcsimmons - All I saw was a statement to the fact there was no changes coming due to the same-sex attraction.. They may be making changes otherwise, just no changes for this.. Before this the conversation wasn't dealing with homosexuals.. So perhaps, it was not your intent, but yours was what started the conversation down this path.

                      But.. I would like to restate for Scouter99's benefit.. The statement that you quoted..


                      "This change in membership standards is not a youth protection issue. To consider it a youth protection issue would lead one to believe that sexual abuse and victimization is considered inherent to same-sex attraction. This is not the case."

                      Again they Did not use ALWAYS, or maybe here it would be a statement of NEVER.. But like me, they are stating pretty much what I stated.. So go pick your fight with BSA..

                      Also, I will still restate this fact. The pedophile (molester) wants to be in a position that other adults trust them with children. Therefore they will not gain your trust by being a openly gay person.. Even if gay, they will be in the closet.. You know those BSA Adult leaders we have always welcomed into the troop..So you can currently worry about that, even though right now you are lulling yourself into a false sense of security that openly homosexual adult leaders are currently not accepted.

                    • dcsimmons
                      dcsimmons commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Sorry Moose, maybe you should go read the original post again. I'll quote it here for your benefit:

                      SO MY QUESTIONS
                      ---- Do others think BSA youth protection should be improved by teaching more about the nature of abuse and nature of the abusers?
                      ---- Any news about potential updates to BSA youth protection?

                      so again, where YOU took the conversation is a simple reflection of your values and supposed tolerance.

                    • Scouter99
                      Scouter99 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Again, Moose, the issue is what do you mean by "molester." If you mean only pedophiles, then you are correct, sex selection isn't prevalent because there's no sexual development in the victim.
                      If you mean any person who forces themself on a minor, then sex selection becomes the norm for pubescent victims.
                      Stating that fact does not equal an implication on my part that homosexuals are inherently abusers, and your BSA quote has nothing to do with what I said.
                      Whether the adult is 18 or 68, if the pubescent (sexually developed/ing) minor is the same sex as the adult, then the adult is engaged in a homosexual sex act, and if the adult is exclusively attracted to the same sex, that person is a homosexual. That is what homosexual means.

                      The rest of your post is you putting thoughts in my head that have never been there because you don't like what I have to say--I have no illusions about closeted homosexuals already being in Scouting, and I have no false sense of security based on illusions I do not have. Your attempt to paint me as someone afraid of the gay pedophile boogeyman highlights your continuing inability to understand what a pedophile is: I am not worried about gay pedophiles because most Boy Scouts are pubescent, they are not attractive to pedophiles.
                      So, stick to what I have actually said and stay away from attempting to apply tropes to me.
                      Last edited by Scouter99; 12-31-2013, 04:11 PM.

                  • #14
                    moosetracker ... I don't remember the details of "A Time To Tell" enough other than to remember thinking I don't want my kids to see it and I definitely don't want other parents pointing fingers at me making kids see it. As for making other adult leaders see it, I'd have to watch it. I think most would not sit through yet another youth protection training.

                    Catholic church training needs to better enumerate practices to remove opportunity for abuse.

                    BSA training needs to better teach what to watch out for and what to be concerned about ... AND to teach some of the statistics about it and maybe a few of the interviews by past abusers that the Catholic church training has. Those videos are very helpful.

                    Comment


                    • moosetracker
                      moosetracker commented
                      Editing a comment
                      If it is the CS version, then yes. It I felt the same way. The BS version wasn't so bad. It had something to do with older youths can get references and inuendos where as younger children will not. I am not recommending it for the CS.. I kindof agree.. I would rather they just put in on their on-line education so parents can view it and decide for themselves.. What I was recommending is that for the adult leader, viewing that would give you the piece the YPT training lacked.

                  • #15
                    Does anybody object if I move this to issues and politics? I think it clearly belongs there now.

                    Comment


                    • moosetracker
                      moosetracker commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Probably.. If it hadn't wound down the homosexual fears and misconception route. Fred & I would have probably done 4 or 5 posts and it would have ended as a short thread.. The homosexual topic may cause it to get longer.. Although it has been rehashed multi times before.

                    • fred johnson
                      fred johnson commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I must admit that I object. "Issues and Politics" tends to be for noise and things generally outside scouting.

                      I don't think this belongs in that group.

                      BSA youth protection gives procedures and practical examples without teaching what to look for or the nature of abuse.

                      The topic is about improving the already good BSA youth protection training by adding content that helps communicate the nature of abuse. I'm really not trying to be political. It's a real hole in BSA youth protection training.

                      A ready example is a fairly recent scoutmaster who now and then would give scouts back rubs. Parents and other leaders thought it was weird but no one triggered the alarm for years. Yet, this is a sign of grooming a victim. In addition to teaching about certain types of touch being used to break down barriers and groom victims, the Catholic training taught about abuse is the real reluctance of people to report. It's an identified pattern in abuse. The reluctance is driven by denial and not wanting to raise a false accusation against friends, relatives and generally people who have volunteered and are perceived as exceptionally good people. Much of the Virtus training I received was about getting over the real and natural reluctance to report. I must admit .. I remember interviews of the parents of scouts in that troop and most of them said at one point that they always wondered over the years. I must admit that I got really upset that no one invested enough to learn more. Especially as it was 2010, not 1980 or 1990.

                      BSA training is good in policies, practices and situational role play. But BSA training lacks when raising awareness about who abuses (close friends, relatives, the good guys) and does not invest enough about getting over the barrier to report. The reluctance to reporting is a barrier that is real.

                      it is a short coming in BSA youth protection training that needs addressing.

                      BSA YPT is good. I just hope it takes the next step and improves further.
                      Last edited by fred johnson; 12-30-2013, 05:34 PM.
                  Working...
                  X