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Is Cub Scouts too long?

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  • Is Cub Scouts too long?

    At 5.5 years long in our council (Lions, Tigers, Wolves, Bears, Webelos), youth usually spend way more time in Cub Scouts than Boy Scouts. Plus, Cub Scouting is being viewed as a Kindergarten maturity level. Pack activities often need to be lowered to the least challenging level, now kindergarten.

    IMHO, let soccer be the Kindergarten and 1st grade activities. Move Cub Scouts to 2nd grade and get it viewed again as a more mature and more challenging activity.
    Cub Scouts lasts too long. Eliminate Lions(K) & Tigers (1st grade)
    Cub Scouts is just right
    There is a problem, but find a different solution.

    The poll is expired.

  • #2
    An alternative title: Does Cub Scouts start too early?


    • Brewmeister
      Brewmeister commented
      Editing a comment
      1st grade is ok, but 2 years of Webelos is 1 too many. My son figured out in the summer camp after Bear year as a new Webelos. Fortunately his birthday aligned with being able to join a troop at the end of 4th grade so he got out after one year.

  • #3
    Split the younger program up like most other countries do, but group the younger years together ina European style scout "group." Put the Tigers and Wolves into Beavers. Keep the Bears and up in Cubs, make Cubs more like Webelos. If you want Kindergarteners, call it something else (I hear "Squirrels" being used in Ireland for a sub-Beaver age group).

    There's a similar discussion going on today on SCOUTS-L.
    Last edited by 00Eagle; 07-09-2013, 03:02 PM.


    • #4
      I voted eliminate Tigers and Lions
      ...... I agree with the premise that it stretches out a bit too long, but Tigers was a good program.
      Tiger is thoroughly part of the program now, so I don't think it's a simple elimination and I don't think that Tigers should be removed entirely. My son and I enjoyed it.

      I like 00Eagle's suggestion, on the surface at least.....
      I do like the idea of a younger group and older group... somewhat split, but still perhaps part of the same pack.
      maybe Lions + Tigers+ Wolf in the younger group
      Bear + WEBELOS in the older group, and make it more like a longer WEBELOS or make it more of the high adventure group


      • #5
        It is too long.....Move the tiger stuff to the wolf year.....eliminate the duplication between wolf and bear years...

        Webelos high adventure......Ages and Stages my friend..... NO.


        • #6
          Yes it's too long as is and will be worse if Lions goes nation wide as I've heard may be the case. Cub Scouts is the most leader intensive program of Scouting and does produce burn out. Also many Cubs get bored. I know a Den of Webelos who are chomping at the bit to become Boy Scouts.


          • #7
            I like the idea of the time span but I've already seen in my short time the burn out and strain it causes. I'm hoping that won't be the case for my son (or his den) but I saw what one year did to some, no idea what's up ahead for us (gonna try to stay optimistic.) If there was a better way to combine some of it and make less repetition, I think that would be a start.


            • #8
              BSA keeps hammering KISS keep it simple, keep it fun. Or something like that. But what they don't tell you is HOW to do that. They put out a lot of requirements that are not fun and expect you to figure out how to make them fun. How about you just telling me how to make it fun and publish some simple den meeting plans for me that do not require 4 hours of sourcing the materials.


              • #9
                Lions = kindergarten boys? In my state you can enter kindergarten (all day in my town) if you are 4 and will turn 5 before 12/31. That is too young. A good chunk of those little ones struggle in school to stay on task because they aren't mature enough - and their parents started them early. Then figure in the parents that red-shirt their boys and they turn 6 in kindergarten. The physical and emotional development differences are huge! Maybe national should come up with a plan to support Tiger & Pack leadership to run spring recruitment all spring for the next years Tigers. Where all kindergarten boys are invited to attend 3-4 spring den & pack meetings and when they turn in a punch card with their applications they get a special patch to wear on their uniform when they are a Tiger in 1st grade. Get the applications in for June so they can go to day camp too as Tigers.


                • #10
                  I understand we need to get the boys started in scouting in 1st grade........We have to compete with soccer and baseball.........First grade year sets the pattern for elementary school years......

                  TOO MUCH REPETITION BETWEEN THE WOLF AND BEAR YEARS......THE WEBELOS IS TOO MUCH LIKE SCHOOL WORK. Traveler pin, what the heck, fitness again what the heck they were bored out of their minds.......


                  • King Ding Dong
                    King Ding Dong commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Will have to look at the Bear book again soon, I suppose the intent is to slowly build up to to Eagle required MBs.

                    The Traveler Pin depends on your perspective. These suburban boys have likely never been on public transportation and don't have a clue how a bus schedule works or how to transfer. I had the boys help plan a route to an old style soda fountain in the city. We missed a transfer (busses do not run on
                    time), experienced noxious fumes, crazy drunks and bag ladies. They learned something outside their bubble. Of course we had to drive to a mall to catch the first bus.

                    When it comes to Cubs I go rouge and try and make the requirement something meaningful to the situation. I really try not to just check off meaningless boxes just to get through it.

                    Used fitness to discuss challenges to the food pyramid. Asked the boys if their parents all followed the high carb recommendations. Several explained no, and why not. We talked about the different nutrition standards each household had. Read the ingredient lists of some packaged foods and looked up what some of those chemicals are.

                • #11
                  Man I hate family camping...........

                  Parents think it is social time......I finally got them to stop bringing alcohol to camp....then they sit around the campfire while the boys are vandalizing the camp...... The siblings girls being all catty with each other and all the drama.....

                  Parents up till 2 am playing cards and being loud the same crew failing to get up and perform their breakfast duties.......Then one den leader decides it is ok for the boys to make their own pancakes.........They made a mess to the point I ended up loading the stove and fly into the truck to run to the car wash..... The last time they will use troop gear for a camp out.

                  Then the fishing, Old SM and I spend 4 hours baiting hooks and untangling lines while the parents lounge around the campfire or run to town for starbucks, It is a 40 minute drive one way.

                  I was embarrassed to be associated with the Pack.


                  • gsdad
                    gsdad commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I have to agree with family camping.

                  • King Ding Dong
                    King Ding Dong commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yep, teaching families how to camp is a messy business. Had an Eagle Scout, seminary student Tiger DL running the boys around at 11:30. The CM had a talk with him and he was very apologetic. He forgot his training.

                    The CM has to take charge, set the agenda and keep to a schedule. Insist the DL have a plan and follow it. I think Den backyard campouts are best for tigers. The host parent doesn't want to anger his neighbors and fencing in tigers is a good thing.

                  • qwazse
                    qwazse commented
                    Editing a comment
                    BD, sounds like the group who camped next to our pack one summer. We almost had them kicked out after one night. Camp director read them the riot act and that was that.

                    They were lucky. Had I known the CD then as well as I do now, she would have gotten a phone call at midnight and they would have been gone at 1 am.

                • #12
                  Tigers should have remained as it started. IMO there is entirely too much parent involvement in Cub Scouts.


                  • #13
                    Ya know ... The above quote ... compete with soccer and baseball. I fully 100% disagree with that. What we have now are many programs competing for the same kids starting in kindergarten and 1st grade. Then, families discover it's too much. So they need to drop something. Scouts is often the first to be dropped because it looks the least structured.

                    I say, let them try baseball and soccer in K & 1st grade. Let those be the small kid activities with heavy parent involvement. Stop associating scouts with the smallest kids. Stop having such a young program that it becomes parent required.

                    Let Cub Scouts start in 2nd grade (or 3rd for all I care ... I think that's when my kids were ready.)


                    • #14
                      Another related issue.... parents receive their 1st joining invite in K or 1st grade. So then they really don't even think about it in 2nd grade or after.


                      • #15
                        Yes, I call it Cub Scout burnout. By the time the kids are ready to join Boy Scouts, the parents are so sick of the intense involvement, they bail and take their kid with them. They don't get the message that Boy Scouts is supposed to be a different program.