While I wouldn't plan a pack activity around playing cops and robbers (mainly because there are far too many activities available which support the program), I'm not going to shut down a good shootout if one breaks out.

I see a difference between "unauthorized" and prohibited.

Nope, no guns.

A long discussion of this here

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=322033

I have a den leader threatening to quit unless his son gets to bring a toy gun to a cub scout function.(This message has been edited by fauxc)

"I have a den leader threatening to quit unless his son gets to bring a toy gun to a cub scout function"

WOW!! not a hill I would choose to die on on either side if the issue. My question to the den leader would be "why does he need to bring it and will he have enough to share with all the other boys there?" It may be a case of Dad not wanting to tell Johnny "no".

That being said, generally I am with TwoCub, much too many activities to dom don't need this to be Pack sponsored.

>>"I have a den leader threatening to quit unless his son gets to bring a toy gun to a cub scout function."

>>Obviously lots more going on here than just a Scout bringing a toy gun to an activity. >What kind of gun? A full size replica AK47?>What function? Pack, or council? Campout, or den meeting?>Why MUST the Scout bring it?>Why would the den leader quit over this?>Care to share the parts of this you left out?

Hmmm...I guess we shouldn't have had the boys whittle guns for the whittling chip activity then? Or made marshmallow shooters that look like pistols? Or created rapid-fire rubber-band machine guns?

This is a whole big bunch of hooey. What's the first thing a group of red blooded boys do when let loose in the woods? They go find sticks that look like guns. At a winter campout a few years back they turned barn planks and discs cut from tree stumps they found lying around into a whole armory of Tommy guns.

Just tell them not to point them at any individual.

OK, first of all, a slingshot/wrist rocket is WAY different from a toy gun that does nothing.

Your slingshot problem at your Pack derby event is NOT a "toy gun" problem, it was a supervision/behavior problem.

No one, parents, or leaders, were watching the kids. The boys thought shooting things at other kids was acceptable behavior. The kids that were hurt did not trust any of the adults there enough to tell anyone it was happening. You (CM) did not hear about it until a "few days" later (from your own child?).

So you "solve" the problem by banning any and all toy guns/weapons from any Pack activity.

What happens when those same boys (or others) find sticks in the woods, and, pretending they are swords, start stabbing, and hitting other kids?

Will you ban all sticks?

What happens if some of the youth start throwing acorns/pebbles/rocks/shoes/water bottles/etc at other kids pretending they are grenades of some sort?

Will you ban touching anything that can possibly be imagined to be any type of weapon?

You need to address the BEHAVIOR involved.

I would also mention that BSA considers wrist rockets/slingshots to be the same thing as BB guns. As such they are not allowed at any kind of Pack event, and can ONLY be used at district/council events under TRAINED instructors.

I am also a bit concerned that you brush off the comment you made that a den leader is willing to quit the Pack over the issue of toy guns, by stating he is just "stubborn".

That is not being "stubborn". This sounds like you have stirred up quite a hornets nest that has divided your Pack.

You state in your other thread that "you have to draw the line somewhere". It sounds like your "line" is cutting your Pack in half.

Umm, where are there "toy anythings" at a scout function? Really, I can see a hard "No Toys" rule for Cub Scouts, or at camp "No toys out of your tent", for those with security issues. Don't they have enough distractions with the sticks, rocks, and other great outdoor stuff?

>>OK, first of all, a slingshot/wrist rocket is WAY different from a toy gun that does nothing>Your slingshot problem at your Pack derby event is NOT a "toy gun" problem, it was a supervision/behavior problem.>What happens when those same boys (or others) find sticks in the woods, and, pretending they are swords, start stabbing, and hitting other kids?
Will you ban all sticks?
What happens if some of the youth start throwing acorns/pebbles/rocks/shoes/water bottles/etc at other kids pretending they are grenades of some sort?
Will you ban touching anything that can possibly be imagined to be any type of weapon?
You need to address the BEHAVIOR involved. >I would also mention that BSA considers wrist rockets/slingshots to be the same thing as BB guns. As such they are not allowed at any kind of Pack event, and can ONLY be used at district/council events under TRAINED instructors. >I am also a bit concerned that you brush off the comment you made that a den leader is willing to quit the Pack over the issue of toy guns, by stating he is just "stubborn".
That is not being "stubborn". This sounds like you have stirred up quite a hornets nest that has divided your Pack.

Some folks go way overboard reading stuff into the G2SS that is really not the intent of the document. Our Day Camp Dude came back from NCS and banned the squirt gun fight that was the cherished end of camp ritual. The 'Water Soaked Sponges Fight' just didn't go over as well.

But I agree that toy guns are not appropriate for Cub Scouts.
1- It is in the G2SS. Hide behind it if you like.
2- Bringing enough guns for everyone?
3- Who will monitor what the boy points his gun at? What will the consequences be for pointing it at a human? (This is my real objection. When this child moves up to BBs and .22s, he needs to have learned reluctance to point a weapon at a human.)
4- There are way too many other things to do in the woods!

If your DL is threatening to quit over this, you probably need a new DL anyway...

Complete silliness. At what point do we totally stop kids from being kids?

I agree with ScoutNut's last post. I agree it's silly to ban the toy guns, when the problem was that a child was shooting at other children with a real weapon (a slingshot, albeit loaded with acorns rather than rocks). I also think it's silly for the DL to think this is worth quitting over.

Finally, why bring toy guns to a campout when you can use sticks? With a toy gun you are limited to whatever it represents. With sticks, you can pick up sticks for anything from a small pistol to a rifle to a bazooka to a cannon. Pine cones make great grenades.