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  • First Class in 5 months

    Since old Tim and Brew think I am being unreasonable in my questioning a ScoutMaster whose troop camps quarterly to getting new webelos to first class in 5 months....

    Is it Possible

    or is it BS(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

  • #2
    My troop camps monthly. We provide the opportunity for a motivated scout to advance. We generally get new scouts to First Class in less than 2 years. I would have to do some research to see what our average time to 1st is.

    I had a boy do it in 11 months. A few years later, I had a boy do it in 8 months. And he did I it well. Never missed an event or meeting. Driven.

    But 5 months? I don't see it myself, but I suppose it is possible.

    Racing through the ranks does nothing for experiential learning.

    In that survey that was talked about last week, one of the statements was the Activity Coordinator was to provide a program to get the boys to 1st class in 18 months. Really-that's the AC's job?

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    • #3
      Possible yes. My troops system doesn't really encourage it though.

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      • #4
        Nah, not possible except in cases where a lad came in with a lot of prior experience from his family. Not without subtractin' from da requirements in substantial ways. Especially not if the troop is only campin' quarterly.

        B

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        • #5
          If they were very active in Webelos, I would definitely say yes. There was no reason why either of my sons couldn't have nailed down all of those skills. They had already camped and hiked and knew community leaders and had to learn to swim (because we spent lots of time with in-laws on Lake Erie and on the FL Treasure Coast).

          But lacking a sense of urgency, they took years.

          Adults (and even a PLC if they are determined) can set up a program that moves boys along and gets them tested properly.

          Now, the real challenge is helping those boys maintain and build upon those skills. That's where your troop comes in, BD! Have your SPL call their SPL and see if there's a location that your troop can share for a weekend and work on orienteering, pioneering, or some other activity that will help keep everybody sharp.

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          • #6
            I could do it in 5 months easy.
            I wouldn't encourage it for my Scouts.
            Our goal is 1st Class by the second summer camp.

            BSA use to have tenure requirements for rank, 2 months for Tenderfoot, 3 months for 2nd Class, and 3 months for 1st Class.

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            • #7
              I remember those tenure requirements and wish we still had them today. Rationale: fokls actually had some time in grade so to speak to master the skills needed for the next rank.

              But with 1989's "Operation First Class," I'm seeing a rush to Eagle, and a "One and Done" mentality.

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              • #8
                actually I think the 10 activities would be easier to get done in the 5 months than doing all the other requirements. Only 3 need to be an overnight camping.

                what takes our scouts the longest is the cooking requirements. 1st class they are patrol cook, 2nd class they are patrol assistant cook, and tenderfoot they are used as a helper by their patrol. so that right there is 3 different campouts. if you have a patrol full of new scouts this could take some time - if you have a few patrols all with a couple of new scouts it goes smoother and will take about 3 campouts for each scout.

                it's the other requirements - even with a troop that builds a calendar to cover all those activities in 1 year it would get boring repeating those things over and over again. so a good mix is needed and even then it's up to the boy -- for instance we had a campout where boys could do their 5 mile hike or they could go fishing. was 50/50 - and at that time we weren't for certain when our next 5 miler would be though granted a boy could arrange to do it with some patrol buddies at any time, but boys that new don't usually jump up and do such things.

                our average is 20 months - just before their 2nd summer camp, but we have had some take 3 years due to their own choices in activities.

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                • #9
                  Um, "Base," I never said that, so you must have me confused with someone else.

                  Edit: I just checked the "bragging sm" thread and I didn't even comment there. I think the fumes from the basement furnace are getting to you...check your CO detector...(This message has been edited by Brewmeister)

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                  • #10
                    1st class they are patrol cook, 2nd class they are patrol assistant cook, and tenderfoot they are used as a helper by their patrol. so that right there is 3 different campouts. if you have a patrol full of new scouts this could take some time - if you have a few patrols all with a couple of new scouts it goes smoother and will take about 3 campouts for each scout.

                    Only if yeh believe in One-and-Done, eh? :P

                    Da requirements are the test. They're Step 2 in the Boy Scout Advancement Method.

                    Yeh need three campouts for the test, I agree.

                    Now when do they do Step 1: A Scout Learns?

                    If a lad comes in who has been workin' at his parents' restaurant since he was six and who regularly cooks and even has prepared a few menus, then I'll believe he might only need a few campouts of learning how to use campfire and camp stove instead of a professional kitchen, and how to do LNT instead of use the disposal and dumpster and dishwasher. So five to six months of 100% attendance in an active troop durin' the fair-weather season might barely be enough to learn those new things enough to be reasonably proficient and then do the testing. Maybe. But only in a troop with mixed-age patrols.

                    For the average lad, who hasn't cooked before? What does it take for such a lad to really learn how to cook? How much practice?

                    I reckon it's somethin' more than zero. More still if he has to share da cooking and practice and testing time with a whole gaggle of other same-age lads.

                    Beavah

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                    • #11
                      "This thread was spun from another thread..
                      Since old Tim and Brew think I am being unreasonable in my questioning a ScoutMaster whose troop camps quarterly to getting new webelos to first class in 5 months.... "

                      Ummm... I wasn't aware I commented on 1st class scout advancement? Interesting.
                      I will comment that I am not directly involved at Troop level. As such, I cannot make an honest assessment of those requirments. Personally I feel time in grade has merit as a requirment. Time alone wouldn't insure actual skill however.
                      Honored to be metioned in your post though

                      Yours In Cheerful Service

                      Tim

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                      • #12
                        Ah, now I see that this was actually spun from a different thread, and in that thread I did comment. But alas, I did not make the comment I am mentioned as supposedly saying...

                        So I'm not sure if that allegation is related to fumes in the basement or other malady...but it matters not...

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                        • #13
                          --For the average lad, who hasn't cooked before?--

                          Average lad? ...but that troop is from Lake Wobegon.

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                          • #14
                            hmmm, so brew this wasnt you then??????

                            "Chapter XXI. "How to criticize every other unit in your area as a parlor troop that produces paper Eagles while thumping your chest about how your unit is the only one with the rigor to produce true scouts worthy to be sons of Baden Powell."

                            (This message has been edited by brewmeister)"

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                            • #15
                              Of course that was me.

                              Was I talking about you?

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