Questions about BOR

[fgoodwin 23]

My son went before his Tenderfoot BOR at the last troop meeting. For the lower ranks, our troop tradition has been to have older Scouts act as the review board for the younger Scouts; the board always includes at least one non-ASM adult.

 

As part of each boy's "review", they are asked to recite the Scout Oath and Law; if they don't get them right, they are asked to repeat them until they do get it right. Now, I grant you that a boy should know the Scout Oath and Law by this time, but isn't this an example of retesting, which is prohibited?

 

Also, I was standing in the back of the room, nowhere near my son and totally unseen by him, when his review came up. However, because I am an ASM, the advancement chairman asked me to leave the room. I complied because arguably, I wasn't supposed to be present.

 

However, at the same time, another TF candidate was being reviewed by a board that included his older brother. Now, if my being in the room, quietly observing, and not coaching in any way was a problem, why isn't it a problem to have an older brother on a younger brother's BOR?

 

I don't want to make trouble for this troop, because we are still relatively new (having crossed over last spring). But there are some things going on that don't seem right to me.

[EagleInKY 14]

Several issues here:

 

1) Boys conducting BORs is a clear contradiction to the Advancement guidelines. Get a copy of the Advancement Committee guidebook and you'll see. This was a practice up until sometime in the 80's I believe. Personally, I thought it was a good idea, if properly done. But, apparently there were enough problems that the BSA changed the rules.

 

2) A family member should not be on the BOR. Even if you get problem #1 resolved, you need to make sure this doesn't happen in other ways (aunt, uncle, cousin, etc.)

 

3) BORs should be conducted privately, IMHO. We do ours in the classrooms at our sponsor (a church). It's best to have no distractions and the boy can feel comfortable giving honest answers without the fear of being overheard.

 

4) BORs are not retests. If a scout stumbles on the Oath and Law, it's NO BIG DEAL. I like the concept of having them recite it. It helps start things off in a dignified way, and acts as a "point of reference" during the BOR. We've only had one BOR be delayed because of a scout struggling with this. We had a scout coming for Tenderfoot that went into a total vapor lock. He couldn't tell you the oath, law, slogan, motto.... nothing. He totally froze. The BOR decided to table the discussion until the following week, giving him a chance to relax. Everything went fine the next week.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

that idea of mine to have an "accredited troop" program looks better evey day.

 

As was metioned on another thread, a troop had a tradition of holding BORs for merit badges, this is another troop tradition most properly blown up. There is no provision in the BSA program for youth running the BOR process at any level, there was years ago, but that time has passed. I wonder what else they are doing improperly?

 

Any yes, relatives are not to be on BOR's, so the brother shouldnt have been there as well, but to say the brother shouldnt have been in attednance that shouldnt have happened in the first place is mind numbing.

 

Bottom line, Fred, you are right, the BOR process in the troop is whacked.

[fgoodwin 23]

OK, so at least I know I'm not being overly paranoid -- so how do I approach the SM & CC about this?

 

I do plan to get a copy of the Advancement Committee manual and read it.

 

Thanx

[scoutingagain 20]

Ya know...on another thread I said something along the lines about how some folks seem to have a low opinion of adult scouters. After reading some of these threads about MBs and BORs, especially about the guy that had scouts stand at attention for the duration of the review, I'm beginning to understand how some could come to that opinion.

 

OGE, in my experience most accreditation programs require a fee to have a reviewer or auditor come evaluate the program to be accredited. If you explained to the BSA there would be a fee involved, you might get someone to listen. But I'm beginning to agree with you. How about adding, only troops with accredited programs would be allowed to award scouts the rank of Eagle. If others want to run around in the woods in uniform and play scouting that would be fine. If they want to be able to award scouting's highest youth award they would need to be accredited.

 

SA

[OldGreyEagle 5]

well, I had actually thought of the Accredited Troop idea as being voluntary and run by volunteers so there would be no cost, only the time investment, but WTH, if charging money would make it happen, I could be bought

[Hunt 11]

"So how do I approach the SM & CC about this?"

 

Here's my suggestion: go them and say, "I was doing some reading online and I learned something really surprising--BSA has changed the rules and we can't let Scouts sit on BORs any more. Can you believe it? As much as we may like our way of doing things, we'll have to obey the rule."

[Bob White 20]

You might consider instead of saying you saw it on-line to first familiarize yourself with the Advancement Committee policies and Procedures manual and say "I learned this from reading a current BSA manual.

 

God forbid units start operating based on information they find on-line. Let's deliver scouting according to the BSA resources.

[evmori 11]

This along with the thread about 2 hour BOR's makes ya wonder why people are doing this! I agree a Scout should know the Oath & Law & should be able to recite them from memory but making the Scout say them until he gets them right serves no point.

 

I have always looked at BOR's for rank under Eagle as good preparation for a Scout's Eagle board. This is how we handle BOR's in my unit. Seems to work well.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dan 10]

 

wonder why people are doing this!

 

 

Because they can.

Because they know better than the BSA.

Because that is the way it was done when they where a scout.

Because being a boy scout is important and they are going to learn this stuff by god.

Mr Goodwin My bet would be that you will not be able to change this troop. I bet they know how the BSA suggest it should be done, but they have improved on the process. But as most poster here say, most of this stuff is just suggestion from the BSA.

Now why would anyone here be surprised about anything any troop does? I have been on here long enough to read all of things that troop do to improve the BSA program like:

Mandatory attendance.

SM selecting the troop leadership.

Not using New Scout patrols.

SM selecting patrol members and rearranging patrols.

Troops elects every leadership position.

Using push-ups to motivate scouts.

Snipe hunting.

Adding requirements.

Not utilizing Venture Patrols.

SM taking or talking scouts out of merit badges that have been signed off by the merit badge counselor.

Going paint balling or lazer tagging.

And please do not say training, it apparently does not work.

Smoking in front of scouts.

Using cleaning the KYBO to motivate scouts.

 

OGE

Your accredited scout troop is a good idea, but it will never work, all of this stuff is in writing now, why will writing it in one more spot make a difference?

[jr56 92]

As stated earlier, this troops BOR process is way out of line.

It would be best to start low key and be polite. Talk to the Advancement Chair and show him a copy of the Advancement Policy Manual. If this doesn't work you can go to the Committee Chair.

If still no success, go to your troops Unit Commissioner, and or Chartering Organization Representative. You can point out to them that when they charter the unit every year they agree to abide by the policies of the BSA, and the troop is currently in violation of the BSA's advancement policies. Good luck, it's up to you how persistent you want to be.

[FScouter 24]

Boards of review are staffed by troop committee members. Communicating with adults is part of the "adult association" method of Scouting. Kids already know how to talk to kids. This is all very clear, not merely a "suggestion". The Scoutmaster Handbook, the Troop Committee Guidebook, as well as the Advancement book all spell it out in detail.

[Bob White 20]

I agree with Dan.

 

Until more scouters (old and new) accept the personal responsibility to learn and follow the program no outside force can MAKE them do it.

 

Hang on to sails and let go of anchors.