Who may initial requirements in a Scout's Handbook?

[ExperiencedUniforms]

Hello all:

 

Who signs off on the line when a Scout passes a skill test? In the handbook, it says that the Scoutmaster or someone designated by the Scoutmaster may sign. Can the Scoutmaster designate an older Scout (Patrol Leader, Junior Assistant Scoutmaster, Troop Guide), or does it have to be an adult?

 

Does anyone have a reference in writing?

 

Keep on Scoutin'

 

Ora

[Mike F]

Ora,

I don't have reference, but - yes - the SM can delegate the authority to sign off on Tend - 1st Class requirements. SM (or troop) can set policy and restrictions. For example, in order to sign off, the signer must be at least 1st Class and must hold an official position of responsibility (PL, etc.) in which he is trained.

 

In both of the troops I serve, within the last year they have both gone to a system where PL is responsible for the advancement of any scouts in his patrol that are not yet 1st Class. PL has the prime authority for signoff. In some cases, Instructors can assist PL with teaching certain classes and they can then sign them off, too. Those with signature authority know this is a serious responsibility. There is a danger that scouts will be either too easy or too hard in this process, so it bears some monitoring and training along the way. But the payoff is huge - all scouts learn their skills better and it frees up the adults to doing more important things like tending the coffee pot and staying out of their way.

 

-mike(This message has been edited by Mike F)

[greenSM]

Good answer, MikeF! You forgot "nap taking."

 

A troop should be BOY LED. That includes most of the rank advancement teaching. The SM and ASMs are, ideally, there for resources and safety. The SM also reviews all of a Scout's progress during the SM Review for rank.

 

I have a thirteen year old second class with ADD who becomes absolutely brilliant when he is asked to teach even the smallest task to a new scout! Watching that sometimes makes a whole meeting worthwhile!

[Hunt]

Just a comment here--while it's OK to have scouts sign off on advancement requirements, it may contribute to a pernicious problem--retesting at Boards of Review. As many threads here attest, even scouters who know better often do this--I think they're less likely to do so if the requirement has been signed off by, say, the Scoutmaster. I was just talking to a kid (in another troop, thankfully) who "failed" a Board of Review because he was hesitant in showing skills and tying knots. His dad (rightly) intervened and another Board was convened promptly and this time he "passed." As long as some scouters have that wrong-headed attitude, it may be the best advice for scouts to get their requirements signed off by an adult, and the Scoutmaster if possible.

[Twocubdad]

My son's new troop handles this by having the Boy Scout Instructor/Guide initial the checklist in the front of the handbook when he teaches the skill and believes the Scout can do it. The Scout must then demonstrate the skill for the SM or an ASM who initials the "official" checklist in the back of the handbook.

 

Seems to be a good balance between boy lead and taught but with the adults responsible for as quality control.

[Bob White]

In an average size troop or larger where the program is being followed, it would be impossible for one person to keep abreast of all the advancement taking place around them.

 

Part of the growth of the junior leaders is the responsibility to train AND test other scouts.

 

As BP said, "Train them, Trust them, Let them lead".

[ExperiencedUniforms]

Hello all:

 

Thank you for your input. I am a Unit Commissioner, and I attended a Troop Committee meeting for the troop I serve last evening. One of the discussions related to the fact that the boys would not have an opportunity to have their books signed, as neither the Scoutmaster (SM) or Assistant Scoutmaster (SA) would be able to attend the campout. I asked if this was a troop policy, or Council thing, as I had never heard of it in the past 20-so years of Scouting. The Committee Chair (CC) said that it is BSA national policy, and was backed up by the SM. CC said that the boys may teach skills, but the SM or SA had to sign. No members of the Committee may sign, as they do the Board of Review. I felt it prudent to drop the subject in front of the group, but wanted to get some additional information so that I could discuss it with the CC or SM further. Both of these Scouters are very dedicated, have all the books, and the CC is trained, the SM is attending training this weekend (reason why he can't be on the campout).

 

The troop is comprised of aobut nine Scouts. There are half a dozen yearlings, and two college-bound Eagles on the roster. I think the Senior Patrol Leader (SPL) is 15~ish. They expect to recruit, well receive anyway, about five crossover WEBELOS Scouts this spring. All of the yearlings are

[Bob White]

See page 120 of the Scoutmaster Handbook under Step 2- A Scout is Tested

[evmori]

It is up to the SM to designate people other than himself to sign a Scout's book.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Shell in WA- USA]

In our troop, while the boy troop guides, SPL, and other scouts help with the training of the boys, it's the ASM's and SM that sign off the book. And yes, there also is a "check" that goes with that. As Advancement Chair, I also can sign off the book when needed.

[NWScouter]

I couldn't find anything in the most recent Scoutmaster Handbook, so I looked back to the the 1981 edition in there it said: "The individual tests for skill awards may be passed to troop approved boy and adult leaders," p. 225

This isn't a current reference but it is how all the troops I know handle it. BTW skill awards were earned toward Tenderfoot, Second and First Class ranks, and the requirements for them are many of those for the present ranks.

 

[acco40]

I don't have my BSA resources with me but I recall that in The Scoutmaster Handbook it states that a boy's leader may sign off on advancement. I believe that it is purposely vague so a troop can suit its own needs.

 

In a patrol of peers, many time the PL has not mastered a skill much better than his patrol mates. Also, peer pressure sometimes leads to a sign-off on requirements without a real mastery of that skill. As with all skills, paractice makes perfect and if I happen to see a Scout who has a low proficiency in a skill that another Scout has signed off on, I don't alter the records but make sure that Scout has every opportunity to practice and demonstrate that skill. One way is to have his teach that skill to others.

[campcrafter]

Not wanting to start over something that had been discussed; albeit a long time ago and briefly, I would like to revisti this question.

 

As I stated in my rant thread the Troop we are now in allows Parents to sign off on TF 2nd and 1st Class requirements. To me this is just totally wrong. That is the Cub Scout program.

 

However according to sources above the official literature states the SM may designate who may sign off - so if in this troop the SM designates parents is that OK? I say no. What say ya'll?

 

cc

[FScouter]

If the SM has designated parents to sign books, he does not understand the methods of Scouting. You might suggest to the committee that they purchase a Scoutmaster Handbook for him, and send him to the next Scoutmaster Specific training event. If he already has the book he either hasn't read it, or has chosen to ignore the principles. If he has already been to training or declines to go, then it's time to question the charterered organization rep as to whether the right candidate was selected to be the SM.

[EagleInKY]

I agree with Fscouter. Can he do it? Yes. But should he? NO

 

In our troop, requirements are signed off by the following people (in approximate order of how often they do it):

 

1) Troop Guide

2) ASM of new scouts

3) SPL or ASPL

4) Instructor or older scout assigned to instruct by Troop Guide

5) PL (for those scouts not in the NSP patrol).

6) Other ASM

7) SM

 

Since our second year, we've had over 20 new scouts, over 1/2 are First Class our higher. I best I have signed less than 10 requirements (excluding the SM conference, I'm the SM).