questions re: camping merit badge

[solmate]

I have questions re: camping MB. 1)in training MB counselors, they say never to require more than what is in the book, right? Why, then, is it almost universally stated by camping merit badge counselors that one MUST be on an approved boy scout outing in order for a night of camping to count? Is that the way you see it? The book does not state this at all, as a matter of fact, it talks about how camping can be done all alone or with a group, and no mention is made of the concept of "boy scout approved". 2) I have been told different things about whether patrol camping would count. As in, a group goes out with two or more approved adults with a patrol, not necessarily the whole troop, would that be approved for counting as a camping night?

 

Also, what about a boy who has worked as a counselor at boy scout camp for several years, but because of this, he has been shortchanged in his camping nights and is about to make eagle but is short 2 or 3 nights. Would you think camping (in a tent) "at camp" while he is a counselor would count as merit badge qualifying?

 

Thanks in advance for your opinions here. I know everyone has different opinions, but I have been looking for an official position and can't seem to find one. There seems to be a constant discussion about this merit badge, so it seems there should be some universal understanding that is put into the book.

 

 

 

[packsaddle]

My understanding on this is that up to one week of summer camp can count toward the total number of nights required. At least that is how it is done in this council. I see nothing wrong with including nights of camping outside the BSA program although I think it would be good for most to be done with the troop. My personal inclination is that employment as a camp counselor (for pay) should not count. If only two or three nights stand in the way, the better solution (more fun I might add) seems obvious.

[Bob White]

solmate

You are correct. No one (not even a council), can add or subtract from the requirements. So lets look at the requirement.

 

9) Show experience in camping by doing the following:

 

A)Camp out a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. (You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement.) Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched.

 

B)On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision:

1. Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 2,000 vertical feet.

2. Backpack for at least four miles.

3. Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours.

4. Plan and carry out a float trip of at least four hours.

5. Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more.

 

C)On one of your campouts, perform a conservation project approved in advance by the private land owner or public land management agency.

 

 

So can any camping be accepted? Yes as long as it meets the requirement that you stayed in a tent you pitched yourself. That would include camp staff, if you stayed in a tent, and you pitched it yourself.

 

Can you count troop and patrol outings? Yes, if they meet the tent criteria. Can you require they be done on troop or patrol camps? No, and neither can a council.

 

No one can add or subtract from any requirement, no one.

 

This is not an area where personal opinion means a hoot. Advancement is controlled by BSA policy, you are correct in your understanding of the rules.

 

You're doing fine

 

Bob White

 

[packsaddle]

solmate, so a scout that is a counselor does indeed get to count those nights if they qualify under the regulations. Unless they are not considered to be "long-term" the limit would remain the same: one week.

I am curious though. How is it that through several years of participation, the scout has so few nights during the rest of the year? If as little as 3 years are involved, this only amounts to 4 or 5 nights each year outside summer camp.

[evmori]

While the requirement doesn't state the camping & other requirements need to be done with the Troop, I feel it is up to the counselor to determine what he/she will accept.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[solmate]

Thank you for your answers. In the last twelve months, the troop has had 4 nights of camping, and the scout missed one night due to working at camp, so he got three nights with his troop. At the rate that the troop is camping, it would take a scout about 5 years to complete the merit badge. Because of the expressed opinions in our district, in order to get the additional nights, he is going to go camping with other troops. If family camping had counted, he would have had the merit badge long ago.

 

To Bob: I am relieved to see that someone out there has the same understanding of the rules. Would you mind providing me with an email address so that the people in our troop or district could address questions directly to you?

 

Again, thanks for the responses.

[Bob White]

You can write me at bobwhitebsa@hotmail.com

 

 

Most any poster can be reached by clicking on the Send Private Message line found under the users name in the left hand column of the post.

[dan]

Every summer camp I have attended, which is ran by the BSA, which is only 4, I have never seen a scout pitch (setup) a tent. Are the summer camps I have attended different than what you have observed?

[mk9750]

Dan,

 

Every other year, our Troop does summer camp at a Scout Reservation in Canada that does not provide tents, so most of the time, anyone working on Camping MB, who wants (rarely do any of our Scouts "need") to use the week at summer camp, they can count this without problem.

 

A few times in my history with the Troop, we've had a Scout who wanted to complete this badge at the other summer camp, and "needed" to use the week at summer camp spent in camp - pitched tents. When this has happened, I've suggested that they take the tent down, clean it and fold it properly, then set it back up again. This helps meet both the letter and the spirit of the requirement. In that I am not a counselor for this badge, I have no right to require a Scout do this. But in the cases where I have suggested they do, the actual MB Counselor has appreciated that the Scout made this effort to meet the requirement.

 

And of course, there is no requirement that any summer camp nights be used. If a Troop camps out doors once per month, two nights at a time, they could complete the requirment well within a year without ever going to summer camp.

 

Mark

[evmori]

dan,

We have the Scouts that are taking the camping merit badge take their tent down & re-pitch it. Covers the requirement.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dan]

Do these camps use the BSA wall tents? I have never set one of them up, but they do not look like they would be a whole lot of fun to setup. Big, Heavy, big heavy poles, and did I say HEAVY!

[mk9750]

I think Ed and I go to different areas of the same camp. If the tents on his side of the camp are the same as on mine, yes, both are heavy canvas wall tents.

 

And yes, they are heavy, do have large heavy poles, and they are not a whole lot of fun to set up. In both cases I remember, the tentmate of the boy working on the MB at camp helped pitch the tent, just as he would help at any other campout that counted for the MB.

 

These boys made a choice. They wanted to earn a MB, they needed to count the nights at this camp in order to earn the badge, they had to pitch the tent they slept in in order to have the nights count. I admire them for making the effort!

 

Mark

[packsaddle]

The camp for our council allows us to pitch troop tents in the same area as the rest of the shelters. This solves our problems nicely. Are other camps that different?

[Fat Old Guy]

A BSA wall tent is heavy but can be set up in about 15 minutes.

 

 

[evmori]

mk9750,

Heritage Reservation Week Four Camp Liberty Yorktown Campsite!

 

And yes Fat Old Guy, 15 minutes is about right! And yes dan, they are heavy. But two Scouts can set them up!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10