sending boys home

[John-in-KC 311]

Gunny,

 

NP. My points were: 1) Was at camp but not in direct observation of the incident and 2) Whatever the incident was, the rangemaster (an adult our age) bumped the echelon to above his pay grade. That implies it was way beyond the norm.

 

[anarchist 10]

sending a scout home...

 

We have done it once in fifteen years...the scout was a problem child with self control issues. Added to which, his parents were going through a nasty divorce (and he play each of them like fiddles). He did not want to go to camp but Mom and Dad thought it would be "good for him". He stole money...and was caught, he "borrowed", and broke another scout's fishing rod then attempted to slide in into the tent unnoticed and when the SPL called a green bars meeting about the problem the boy threatened to hang himself...complete with putting a rope around his own neck...he then pulled his pocket knife out and threatened to cut up anyone who approached him.

 

The adults, when made aware of the last two items called his dad who could not be reached and called his mom who would not make the three hour drive to camp and pick up her angel.

I happened to arrive in camp (mid week) and volunteered to drive the scout home...once his escape from camp was assured the little thug was all sugar and spice...after all he had gotten his way...his mom did the "poor little angel" routine when I (and my wife) delivered him to his doorstep...and I delivered a note that said the little thug was still welcome at meetings and activities as long as a parent was with him 24/7...never saw him again.

 

Lisabob...I would not send a scout home for ditching merit badge classes or nearly anything else...in fact if a scout wanted to sit in his tent for the full week and we had enough adults to maintain two deep...he could stay in his tent 24/7...it's not my money or time going down the tubes. But a scouts threat (or personal action)to harm himself or others is a 100% free ride home.

 

But you know in the same 15 years I can think of very few behavior issues that could not be caulked up to just being kids and personal exuberance or disability issues we already were clued in to expect...

Excepting that one boy we have been blessed with leaders who could talk with boys over issues and help boys get with the program...case in point:

 

Our adult Leader this year at summer camp was an ASM who years ago (many years) was the troop scoutmaster while his first son was working towards Eagle...the guys a state policeman (rather hardnose outdoors type) who loves camping. As we were getting ready for summer camp several parents of new crossovers began complaining about a boy in the NSP who has behavior issues.

 

It seemed he had made life rather difficult for his patrolmates for the past few months (seems his parents could keep it down to a dull roar while they were all together in cub scouts but in the boy scouts the little guy was just being a pain in the patute). Five new scouts from one patrol signed up for camp. Many of the NSP parents wanted "the boy" left at home for summer camp...as their boys would not enjoy it with the trouble maker along. The ASM talked them down and then had a heart to heart with the boy and his parents...

 

Surprisingly it was not a "you will be good or else", but rather "we are going to have a great time and the more you work with your patrol the more fun you will have!" kind of talk. The ASM talked the boys "up" so high they hit camp like a group of marines taking a beachhead. They had top honors for orderly camp, uniform inspections and other camp competitions.

 

When asked, these boys were the first to accomplish any task and as one of the NSP dads said last night at the first meeting back since summer camp " they went down as "one boy plus a patrol" and came back a working unit...pretty neat stuff!

 

anarchist

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Anarchist, you were very good to volunteer to drive him home, were you two alone? For a kid who was brazen enough to steal, break things, threaten suicide, if he had run into his mother's house claiming you tried to molest him, what would have happened? I know, it didn't and that was the farthest thing from your mind, the troop was happy to be rid of the pox upon it, but it could have been very interesting had the bundle of joy cried rape

[eagle90 125]

At our pre-camp meeting we pass out a form that lists the infractions that will cause immediate dismissal from camp:

 

Leaving Camp property

Alcohol - Drugs

CIgarettes - Tobacco

Theft - Vandalism

Health / Emotional Problems

Gross lack of cooperation

Gross disrespect for leaders

 

In 30+ years we have only had to use this once, when a scout simply refused to do any work whatsoever in his patrol. He was counseled by his PL and SPL, who finally referred the problem to an ASM. The scout in question called the ASM the MF word and a few more vulgarities. The camp director concurred with sending him home, and had him removed from our campsite until mom arrived. Mom had a 6 hour drive to come and get him. When one scout starts to bring the entire troop down, its time to take action.

 

Dale

 

(This message has been edited by eagle90)

[Eagledad 2779]

>>In 30+ years we have only had to use this once, when a scout simply refused to do any work whatsoever in his patrol.

[scoutldr 732]

On the question of refunding fees:

 

Refund of Summer camp fees is up to the Camp Director, not the unit. Usually the answer is no. At the unit level, once the trip has begun, all fees are spent, since food was bought, transportation provided, etc. Again the answer is no. I would entertain a request for a refund only in cases of emergency, when the scout cannot attend through no fault of his own.

 

Never had to send a boy home. Usually the biggest PITA were the leaders' kids!

[Lisabob 13]

Wow, lots of responses. Thanks for sharing some examples. About the money and refunds, we specify on our summer camp forms that if a boy is sent home, it is at the parents' expense and no fees will be refunded.

 

Question: Could you easily imagine sending a boy home for fighting (shoving, punching type stuff) with another scout? If so, would you also send home the scout who fought back? (is it zero tolerance in your book)?

 

I want to be clear that I'm talking hypothetical situations and I know it is hard to answer sometimes but your input is appreciated.

 

 

[Eagledad 2779]

>>is it zero tolerance in your book)?

[evmori 11]

Bob White posts:

 

I would never say to a scout "that's it you are going home". I would make sure that scouts knew from day one what was acceptable behavior and what was not (Scout Oath and Law) and make clear that if they do not act as scouts then they do not participate in scout activitities. I don't need to tell a scout he is going home. The parents can tell them when they get there to pick him up.

 

Then:

 

I have sent scouts home twice in 32 years. Once for bringing marijuana, and once for threatening to hurt an adult leader.

 

Looks like we do send boys home. And not telling them & blind siding them when mom and/or dad show up isn't the way to go!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[GernBlansten 10]

Two years before we joined our unit, I was told of a situation at summer camp where two of our unit leaders got into a very heated argument at the campsite which required the staff to intervene. One of the leaders was a real problem before hand with other leaders and I think the stress of spending a week together finally reached a boiling point. The net result was both leaders left our unit, the problem leader moved on to other units blazing a trail of destruction. Several of our scouts who witnessed the incident, didn't want to attend camp again.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

"Several of our scouts who witnessed the incident, didn't want to attend camp again."

 

I often wonder how many scouts see our behavior here and don't want to do anything scouting related anymore as well...

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Lisa,

 

What Barry said.

 

 

[Eagledad 2779]

>>"Several of our scouts who witnessed the incident, didn't want to attend camp again."

 

I often wonder how many scouts see our behavior here and don't want to do anything scouting related anymore as well...

[GernBlansten 10]

"I often wonder how many scouts see our behavior here and don't want to do anything scouting related anymore as well... "

That's what drove me away from scouting as youth. Bad adult behavior. It ain't fun when the adults can't even get along.

[Gunny2862 11]

Lisabob,

I can very easily imagine sending home a Scout for slapping, punching, kicking, etc.

 

BUT, it's all a continuum to me, the reasons, the attitudes of both Scouts, the severity, reciprocity and duration of the altercation would all come into play at to whether either or both went home. And so without a specific and fully disclosed case to discuss I can't say with any certainty what I would do with a hypothetical.

 

I am not into black/white, right/wrong, go/no go distinctions in dealing with most issues with the boys because the rules may trap me and keep me from doing the right thing for the situation.

 

But I do like having rules that expressly allow me to send anyone home at anytime at my discretion - and the COR and CC can fire me the instant they see me for abusing my discretion too.

 

Thanks for the answers about how you handle refunds - or the lack of them.