Lisabob Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 This has been spun off from another thread ("Another Stupid Question" in the patrol method forum). I'm curious to know how or if you help your new scouts, usually 10-12yrs old, to take initiative in terms of seeking help for rank advancement and learning new skills. Also, how much initiative you expect of them at that age and in the early ranks (say, working toward tenderfoot and 2nd class), in comparison to more experienced/older scouts? 1. Do you find that most new scouts in this age group are capable of taking initiative on their own, or is this something they usually need to be taught? Assuming the latter, how do you help them learn this? 2. Do you set aside specific time for advancement work during troop meetings? If so, who decides what skills should be taught, and who teaches them? How often do you do this? 3. As adult leaders, do you make it known to the boys that you are available for assistance at specific times to scouts who want help with skills x, y, z? Or is it up to them to figure that out and contact you? 4. Do you encourage or expect scouts to contact youth- or adult-leaders outside of troop meetings, campouts, activities, etc. to work on rank advancement skills independently (like they might work on a merit badge with a counselor)? 5. Do you do nothing and wait until the boys finally "see the light" and seize the initiative on their own? 7. After a while, with boys who aren't advancing at these early ranks (ie, crossed over from cubs 6-9-12 months ago and haven't earned tenderfoot even though they're at most activities) do you start doing anything different, or do you let it be? 6. Do you do something else, and if so, what? This seems like something that lots of troops must have some experience with, given the age group and the program differences between cubs and boy scouts, so please, share yours with me. Thanks. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 lisabob, see my posts in the "dumb question" and "another stupid question" threads... I am too slow to type it again today... On "inititive"...how long did it take "junior" to ask for a game boy or nintendo or play station or an i pod???? when he got the game did he have any problem teaching himself to play? not to be flippant here, but on "initative" I rest my case....unless of course there is an intrinsic difference in the posession and use of toys vs something that smells strangely of education, knots and work... the rest I have answered for you as best i could not knowing these questions were coming... but i ask a return set of questions- What does the troop do ...that you are unhappy with? why did you select this troop? Do they have a troop policy document? Have you read your sons Handbook? Do you know these (difficult?) skills and(tenderfoot/second class) requirements? Are they beyond the measure of an 11 year old? Did your son go to summer camp with his troop this past summer? Are you a registered scouter in your troop ?(sorry loaded question) I will be interested in seeing the posts...from all anarchist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleInKY Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Lisabob - Good questions, I'll be interested to see what responses you get. I am not a child psychologist, nor do I play one on TV. But, I have worked with quite a few kids, including close to 30 that have joined our troop in the past 2 1/2 years. Here are my thoughts. 1. Do you find that most new scouts in this age group are capable of taking initiative on their own, or is this something they usually need to be taught? Assuming the latter, how do you help them learn this? I think you're probably going to find 1 out of 10 has this initiative. Maybe another 1 has it due to parents pushing them. About 2 out of 10 are as lazy as you'll ever run across. That leaves about 1/2 the group somewhere in the middle. I think you're goal is to try to get them lean toward the former side more than the latter. 2. Do you set aside specific time for advancement work during troop meetings? If so, who decides what skills should be taught, and who teaches them? How often do you do this? Yes. I wouldn't refer to it as "advancement" time. But we do spend a portion of time each meeting on "skills instruction". For first years this almost always relates directly to requirements for the first three ranks. It's up to the boys, however, to turn this instruction into advancement signoffs. The Troop Guide is responsible for this. An ASM is assigned to work with him and the NSP. 3. As adult leaders, do you make it known to the boys that you are available for assistance at specific times to scouts who want help with skills x, y, z? Or is it up to them to figure that out and contact you? Yes. But they seldom do. :-( 4. Do you encourage or expect scouts to contact youth- or adult-leaders outside of troop meetings, campouts, activities, etc. to work on rank advancement skills independently (like they might work on a merit badge with a counselor)? Yes, I encourage them. No, I do not expect them to. Usually, they wait until someone reminds them they need to do it. Campouts are often where this gets done, when there is time available. 5. Do you do nothing and wait until the boys finally "see the light" and seize the initiative on their own? We push them more in the first few months, and then let them develop on their own. For example, we do everything we can to help them earn Tenderfoot in the first two-three months. I would say that half of them probably make it. Most of the rest wrap it up in the next two months. Six months into this year, we've still got two boys who haven't earned Tenderfoot. But, they've come to less than half of the meetings and outings. So, go figure. 7. After a while, with boys who aren't advancing at these early ranks (ie, crossed over from cubs 6-9-12 months ago and haven't earned tenderfoot even though they're at most activities) do you start doing anything different, or do you let it be? If the boy is making the effort and struggling to pass a requirement, we'll certainly do everything we can to help or encourage him. If it's due to a lack of participation or effort, then there's only so much we can do. 6. Do you do something else, and if so, what? For Tenderfoot, we have a "Tenderfoot campout", about 2-3 weeks after crossover. On this campout, the older scouts teach the first year guys all of the Tenderfoot requirements, Firem'n chit and Toten Chip. This takes several hours on Saturday, with signoffs taking place on Sunday. It's a fun experience because it is entirely boy-run, and it really throws the new boys into the boy-run concept. For new parents on the campout, it's an eye-opener for them too. I expect a gradual increase in maturity and desire. For example, I set up nearly every Tenderfoot SM Conference. Why? Because the boys don't understand it. But by the time they get to First Class, I'm expecting them to ask about it. And by the time they get to Star and Life, I'll wait until the cows come home for them to ask me for it.(This message has been edited by EagleInKY) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 Thanks, EiKY for your replies. Very interesting to see how other troops deal with these issues. Anarchist, I answered some of your questions in that other thread so I won't repeat here either. The reason I spun off a new thread was to get a more general set of responses and insights to these questions (which must, after all, come up fairly frequently with new scouts), rather than a reaction to the specific situation in my son's troop. However, yes, I am a registered scouter and I have been for 5 years. Not long in comparison to many of you with more experience, but I do think I basically understand and support most of what scouting is about. Currently I'm on the troop committee and involved with some projects at the district level. Got my woodbadge beads in June too if that counts for anything. And let me tell you, we BOBWHITES rock the joint. Don't even try to deny it! I don't think the tenderfoot or second class requirements are beyond the ability of a typical 11 year old boy. I'm not asking about basic ability to learn the skills though. I'm asking about what people expect from the new scouts in their troops in terms of the boys taking initiative to get someone besides mom/dad to teach them these skills. Lisa'bob A good old bobwhite too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr56 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Bobwhites, taste great, less filling. Foxes rule. C1196 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 Yeah well at least we're not prone to mange (grin). Lisa'bob A good old BOBWHITE too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 >>...unless of course there is an intrinsic difference in the posession and use of toys vs something that smells strangely of education, knots and work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I agree that it is very difficult for some children to approach adults who aren't family members, and they have to be taught how to do it and encouraged. You might have a kid who would have no problem asking Dad for a Gameboy, but if Dad said, "Here, take this money and go ask that salesclerk to sell you a Gameboy," would have a big problem. You can't overcome this reticence by simply telling a boy to develop some initiative--you have to help him along. Good boy leaders will help, because they are easier to approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msnowman Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 In watching my nephew, my experience is the opposite of Hunt's. Nephew has a far easier time approaching strange adults as he has been doing it for several years. He orders his own food at restaurants (not just shouting in the clown's mouth), asks for help finding something in a store, makes his own purchases, etc. We've had/let/made him do this for practice, so he isn't as shy and reluctant to ask for help as his mother still is. However, approaching a member of your peer group, even an extended peer group like a mixed age Patrol, is another story. For him they are harder to approach because he is more concerned with sounding like a "baby" if he needs help. Not wanting to look "uncool" to his peer group, to older boys he looks up to, etc is the reason fro the nudges, pushes and shoves in that direction, to help him learn to overcome that reluctance. Talking to his SM or ASM is easy in comparison to talking to his SPL/PL. Funny sometimes the different things that will trip our boys up on their journey to adulthood. Michelle (edited because punctuation is my friend)(This message has been edited by msnowman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubmaster Jerry Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 What?!? Initiative can be taught? What Pow Wow class was that? Allow me to relate this story that a Psychologist friend told me... A father bestowed upon his young son the duty of bringing the empty trash can from the curb to the house each trash day when he came home from school. Each week, it never failed. Father would come home and the trash can would still be at the curb. He would then have to remind his son of his responsibility. This went on for quite a few years and as you can imagine father sometimes grew quite weary and frustrated at having to constantly remind his son of his chore. One day, father came home and found the trash can in its place next to the house. Stunned, father went inside and asked his son why the trash can was at the house and not at the curb? "Well", the son responded, "isn't it my job to bring it up to the house on trash day?" There is still hope.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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