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Eamonn

"My job is to help boys make ethical decisions, not to make them do want I want them to.

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Nice unprovoked shot, Bob. And not on topic either!

 

Ethics are tough. We all have our own views on what is right & what is wrong. Teaching boys to make ethical decisions is really teaching them to do the right thing.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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But what makes it scouting isn't just doing things in a Boy Scout uniform, it's doing it using scouting methods and scouting leadership styles.

 

No shot just just something to think about. If what you are doing insn't working then you need to do something different. Scouting works.

 

 

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Hi All

 

>>So why not take the short cut and just tell them what to do? Because it is not trustworthy, helpfull, friendly, courteous, kind, cheerful, or brave.

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I agree Barry, that is precisely why the "tell em what to do method" advocated by Ed (and others who use his same approach) does not work, and Scouting does.

 

The fast way does not develop the scouts interest or self motivation it simply commands them to do your personal will. That is not scouting or what scouting is about and it will be easily measurable by the size and growth of the troop.

 

 

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OK. So when we get to camp telling the SPL to "get the gear unloaded" isn't the way to go? I should have a 10 minute conversation with the SPL so he understands why the gear needs to be unloaded? That way he will feel part of the decision making process? Do I have this correct?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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Ed, if you have to tell your SPL to get the gear unloaded when you get to camp, you have problems that will take longer than 10 minutes to discuss, the least of which will be why the gear needs to be unloaded.

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If the SPL doesn't unload the gear on his own initiative, maybe it's because he has been trained that he doesn't do anything except what he is told to do.

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If the SPL doesn't unload the gear on his own initiative, maybe it's because he has been trained that he doesn't do anything except what he is told to do.

 

I guess the possibility he is a brand new SPL that never had a POR crossed your mind. Or that he is the acting SPL since the SPL couldn't make the trip.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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Ed, I'll play along just because I want to see your response. I will assume,and I understand the implications, that if your SPL is new, he understands the role and responsibilities of the SPL because you have gone over it with him. If he is acting SPL, he has watched other SPL's perform in the role and the reason he is the acting SPL is because he has it "going on" and knows what to do. If he knew he was to be the acting SPL, he would have been briefed by the SPL, or you, on what his role for the weekend would be.

 

And lets say for hecks sake, the boy has a brain cramp. Just gets to the campsite and starts to pitch his tent, oblivious to anything else. You could go over and tell him to get the troop gear unpacked. That would work. Later that weekend you might have some scouts complain to you that the SPL is always running around telling people what to do and its driving the kids crazy. Then again, he is just modeling your behavior. On the other hand ( I have four fingers and a thumb, but I digress)you could approach the wayward SPL while he is pitching his tent and ask him about the troop equipment and who did he assign to get it set up. I wont give you a word for word script, but something that nudges him to realize he needs to get things going. Maybe later that weekend the scouts might tell you how ncie and relaxed the SPL is and how he asks questions and makes suggesitons rather than telling them what to do.

 

Both methods would work, which do you want the scout to use for his life?

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If the boys in your troop are trained to do nothing until ordered, then no one will unload until you order it done. I'm sure that's not your objective, but when orders are given by the big boss, boys "learn" what is expected. They will wait for the expected orders to be given. The gear won't get unloaded until the big boss gives the order.

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Hmmmm, maybe our troop is strange or something? By the second campout a new boy goes on, he knows that the first thing we do is unload and set up camp. Patrol equipment first, individual equipment second. The PLC even has a duty roster made a week before camp of who will be responsible for what while unloading and setting up.

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I was aware that the "It takes a whole Village" did originate from Nigeria. I mentioned Hillary Clinton as her use of it brought it to the attention of so many more people. There are times when because we don't like the messenger, that we fail to get the message.

There are a few people in the forum who I think go out of their way to disagree with everything that Bob posts.

I think Bob really hit the nail on the head when he posted "My job is to help boys make ethical decisions, not to make them do want I want them to." I wish that I'd said it before him.

A lot of how we do things in Scouting is not the easy way of getting things done, we don't do the things the way we do because we want to make life hard, we do it the way we do in the hope that the young people we serve will employ the little gray cells that the Good Lord gave them.

Last week we looked at the ideals of Scouting, which I think is the backbone of everything that we are trying to do.

I have been accused of living in cloud cook-coo land and of living with Utopian dreams. Needless to say I of course think that I'm right and even when the end result or the finished product isn't as good as it might have been if I had not used the methods of Scouting or put the ideals of Scouting aside, I like to think in my own little way I am helping the youth that I serve move toward living with Scout spirit (The ideals) and I am helping them develop the skills need to make ethical choices or decisions.

I have to believe with all my heart that each and every Scout is going to and is doing his best to live by the Scout Oath and Law. I have to believe this because he has promised that he will.

There are those who will say that this just plain and simple just doesn't work. I have to say that it is our job to keep plugging away, working with each Lad as an individual, using all the skills we have, grabbing and recognizing every opportunity along with setting an example knowing that it can and does work.

There are those who ask what happens when it's not working?

We look at what isn't working and use it as a lesson as to how great things would be if they were working.

I see everyone as having ownership of what they do. There are times when not doing things that you should do and times when doing things that you shouldn't do have far reaching consequences and do mean that you have let "The Side" down. But the person you have let down the most is yourself. You promised on your honor that you were going to do your best.

At times we all need help in seeing what is the right thing. At times I know that some of the things I do fall short of being kind.

I want the Scouts we serve to take ownership of what is going on.

Ed posted:

"OK. So when we get to camp telling the SPL to "get the gear unloaded"

While I would hope that the SPL would have worked this out by himself, if he did need a prompt, I would take him to one side and ask him what do you think we should be doing?

When he sees the light. It then becomes "Hey Guys we need to unload the truck" Which is very different to "Hey Guys Eamonn says we have to unload the truck"

As for the toys? Ed you are a lot harsher and tougher than I am!! I'm also very cheap!! I couldn't see me sending the toys that I paid for to the landfill.

Eamonn.

 

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I seriously doubt the SPL will run around telling all the other Scouts what to do just because he was told to do something.

 

SR540Beaver,

And what if the Scouts in the Patrol don't follow the duty roster? Think the PL might be "telling" them what to do? Very possible.

 

Everyone seems to think telling someone to do something is a bad thing. It isn't!!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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Come on Ed, this isn't hard. First off, assuming that the boy didn't know what his assigned duty was, the PL "asks" him to perform a task. If he refuses, the PL takes it to the SPL. If he still refuses, the SPL takes it to the SM. They have an SM conference to discuss how his actions are living up to the scout oath and law. If the boy is belligerent, becomes a distraction to the program or a harm to himself or others he ccould be sent home. The next step would be to have a BOR with the troop committee. You've been around long enough that you know how it works.

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And I'm not trying to make it hard! Just trying to point out there are time things need to be told 1st & explained later.

 

Bob,

Doing the right thing is doing the right thing regardless if you are in a Scout uniform or using the Methods of Scouting. Helping boys make ethical decisions isn't something new and isn't exclusive to Scouting. Helping boys make ethical decisions is helping them do the right thing. And sometimes that help comes in the form of orders.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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