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Scout Meds

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Wow - alot of things to think about and address -

 

First though - your comment " We have scouts come to camp on meds and they don't list them on the forms."

 

A class II form is good for 3 years. As I am the activity coordinator and keep 'the book' updated (and because we don't want this personal info in the hands of the boys) this IS an adult job. I know on my son's form it does NOT reflect his current medication - as ADD meds can change. (or be diagnosed & added!) He's also changed his allergy meds. Because I am aware of this - rather than get a new form (& a Dr visit) every time he changes, I keep a medicine card in his file reflecting any changes.

 

Also - whether parents INFORM us of medications, uses, etc. or not - our troop REQUIRES all medications sent along to be in the original prescription bottles, or OTC bottles so they can be identified by medical personel. I don't have to be able to pronounce that medications name or know what it is for - but the label tells me when to give it to the child - and I can give the bottle to any health professional that has to treat the child and THEY will know what they are dealing with for the purpose of drug interactions.

 

that being said - I am very open about ADD in my family - and I work hard at maintaining an open and non-judgmental attitude with the parents in our troop; which encourages them to TELL me of their childs specific medical needs and requirements. (Sometimes I get told TOO much! LOL!)

 

We have a couple of asthmatics, lots with ADD - one with ODD (sure can't see it - he's VERY cooperative), a bedwetter, one with Tourette's, a couple who have been on anti-depressants, Allergies (from hay fever to shellfish), one lactose intolerant, one who swears he's allergic to cabbage?

 

I have seen all the troops forms - I don't "read" them. I look for the proper signatures, dates - are the appropriate blanks filled out? if not, is a school form attached? I don't even bother to look for medications on the forms - I ASK the parent when they turn in the (new) forms - "are all his medications listed?" Before we go to summer camp, I ask when accepting medication to go to camp "is there a list of medicines, dosages and times? Are all the original labeled bottles included?"

 

We go to two camps - one in Wisconsin and one in Illinois. State laws differ. In Wis medicines MUST be turned over to the nurse's office for dispensing by medical personnel. In Illinios, a troop leader is designated to dispense meds. We usually look for the parent of the kid with the most medicine - and they get the job for all.

 

for troop campouts - it's up to the scout himself - unless a parent ASKS us to remind or dispense meds. Obviously, an ADD kid is not going to 'remember' to take his meds! LOL!

 

You can 'dictate' rules all you want - but on this kind of issue - people aren't going to disclose information unless you ASK and unless you make them comfortable in revealing the information you ask for. they have a 'right' to privacy - and they also have the 'right' to expose their child to possible drug interactions - or even to emotional upset because someone doesn't understand a problem that wasn't disclosed. That IS their choice.

 

you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar - ASK - and explain why the info is helpful - and you'll probably get all the info you think you need.

 

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Ah yes, I remember this old thread. Bob White, forgive me if I get this wrong, but Bob has always said he would never be responsible for a scouts meds. I found it very interesting when we went to Webelos Scout camp a few weeks ago. After check in, we had to head to the health lodge. Because of the new Hippa laws, everyone had to stand in a line outside the lodge and come in one at a time to turn in your health form to the camp nurse. She checked it over to make sure it was complete and then told you that any meds had to be given to her. She had a schedule of when you could come to the health lodge to take your meds. If the schedule would not work for you, she would work out an individual arrangement with you. Adults could either give her their meds or lock them up in their vehicle at the camp parking lot. They did not want them in camp where they could get lost, stolen or borrowed. Their idea is that little Johhny's mom gives him a little white pill when his head hurts or a pink pill when his nose was stuffy. Johnny noticed that Billy had white pills and Tommy had pink pills. Johnny helps himself without knowing what the pills really are. Anyhow, for what it is worth, this is how our council approaches meds at camp. Turn them in and take a hike to the lodge when it is time to take them and get them rom the nurse.

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kwc57,

Is this health nurse going to be available 24/7? What if little Johnie needs to take his blue pill every hour? Will she be available for the 2 AM or 4 AM dosage?

 

This seems extreme to me. When we go to camp, I or one of my assistants keeps track of all the Scouts medication & when they should get it. The medication is kept locked up at our site. As far as HIPPA goes, the BSA doesn't need to comply.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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Duh! for being rude but yes there has to be medical personel on premesis at all times according to the health and safety guide. Anyway why should an adult even have a scouts meds. I feel and maybe wwrongly that medical staff no matter what age should have more of a right/duty than an adult non medical staff to take care of meds. PM me with comments.

 

-Jeff

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Yes medical staff must be on site 24/7 for emergencies. Not to dole out medicne at 2 AM.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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Ed,

 

Yes the nurse is there 24/7 and avalable if needed. If little Johnny gashes his leg walking to the latrine at 3 AM, the nurse would be availalbe. I thought I said it, but perhaps I didn't. If her scheduled hours for doling out medications won't work with your needs, she will work out something with you individually. If Johnny needs medicine every hour, perhaps camp isn't the best place for him to be without Mom or Dad tagging along.

 

While Hipaa may not apply to BSA, if the council wishes to utilize the privacy Hipaa provides, they can. Kind of like seat belts. Some states require them, some don't. Regardless, it is a good practice to use them in any state.

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This can get complicated, and it's dealt with very inconsistently. My 11-year-old son has asthma and nut allergy, so he needs an Albuterol rescue inhaler (which he self-administers when he needs it) and an Epipen, which thus far he's never had to use, although he knows how. At Heritage, he was required to keep the meds on his person at all times--at a church camp in Maryland, it was an issue whether he would be allowed to keep them on his person, or would have to give them to the nurse (he kept them).

I can see a lot of sense in having regular timed medications given out by the nurse at a central location--problems are less likely that way. But rescue meds can't be handled that way.

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I am extremely fortunate to have a SA who is a trained paramedic in our troop. Obviously, I let him handle all health issues. As for medications, with the "drug scare" culture in our society these days, many schools and camps do not allow youth to self administer medications. At our summer camp, the youth are not allowed to self medicate except for extreme cases (Epipens, inhalers, etc.). The choice now is for either an adult Troop Leader or the health officer to administer the medications (including tylenol, benedryl, claritin, aspirin, etc.) for the youth. In a large camp, the health office can be a good trek away. In our troop, our practice, right or wrong, is to share the medical form information with at least one leader at all outings. We bring along the health forms at each outing. The information is not shared with the youth. We do have youth who have allergic reactions various substances and many who take daily medications. A responsible medical professional likes to know these facts IN ADVANCE (that is why the questions appear on so many forms at your doctor's office). In our society, privacy and health often "compete" with each other. We do need to respect the privacy of our youth and do our best to maintain their health. Obviously, the parents determine if we err on the side of privacy or health.

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Very interesting thread.

 

Bob White may be right that we don't have a right to know but we do have a need to know any medications that Scouts or adults may require to insure the health and safety of the person or others. As Ed said, "what if Johnny can't breath . . ."

 

Mr. White also commented, "It is unlikely at 1/2 dillution that the tiny amount of red dye would worsen his condition or create a more severe medical condition than he was already in" with one metaphorical breath and with another breath speaks about leaving professional judgements to the professionals. Is Mr. White a physician as well as an expert on caps?

 

Mr. White also stated, "A physician treating the child needs to know what he is taking, and he's not going to give the child any meds until he talks to the parent first." Mr. White needs to read the health form, it includes a parental permission section for treatment as well as listing of all meds and allergys known to the parents. If the form is meaningless (and no BSA form is ever meaningless) why do we have to complete it?

 

 

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Thank you for your interest in my medical training Mr. Guy, but as I stated in my post, the response I gave was sharing info given to me by a physician I consulted on the thread.

 

As far as as the parental permission it is all well and good but even so no physician i the country will treat a minor for a non-fatal injury without first speaking with the parent or legal guardian, or a court order.

 

This again came from a physician not my personal opinion.

 

Have a nice Day:)

Bob White

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"As far as as the parental permission it is all well and good but even so no physician i the country will treat a minor for a non-fatal injury without first speaking with the parent or legal guardian, or a court order."

 

You know this from speaking with one doctor? In any case, doctors only treat non-fatal injuries. Once they become fatal, the doctor stops treatment.

 

 

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I think we're getting a tad picky here. What I believe Bob meant was that when dealing with a child, doctors will not treat non-life threatening conditions without first speaking to the parents or legal guardian. I know this myself having been to the hospital on numerous occasions over these past many years with Scouts in those very situations. Our troop always used a home-grown permission form for complete medical information purposes as well as parental permission in addition to the BSA standard forms. But both only served to provide immediate information to the doctors, and neither would serve as a 'go-ahead-to-treat'. Each and every doctor I met said the same thing..."I need to speak to the parents or guardian first".

 

With regard to life-threatening injuries, which I fortunately have not been witness to in Scouting, I would assume that the situation is very different. And direct contact with the parent is attempted even as treatment is being performed. That supposition being the case, our own troops forms that requested detailed information was that little bit of insurance...just in case.

 

Our own camps, for years, have had a policy of keeping all meds at the medical station. The station is manned and open 24 hours a day while Scouts are in camp. The staff may be asleep there, but they're there and for timed medications, they know when to be awake and ready. And when to send out the search party for the Scout who over-slept and might have missed his midnight med.

 

I did, at one time, have a little bit of a test of wills with the staff when they determined that rescue meds also would be kept at the medical station. My own son being highly vulnerable to circumstances requiring an epipen, I fought that notion hard. No way would I allow my son to be left at need in emergency without his self-administered aid. It was sheer lunacy. They finally gave in when I put the whole subject in terms of how they, themselves, might be held at fault for the death of a child in need due to their own inability to be at the scene, anywhere in camp, in a timely fashion, with the appropriate aid in hand...for whatever reason...but mostly because they "withheld" immediate aid by reason of confiscation. Subsequent to that little trial on the first day of camp, rescue meds were allowed to be in the possession of the Scout, so long as the adult leaders in camp for that troop knew about it.

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Ok, I have just read the whole thread again, and what fun that was, if a scout or scouter is going to Summer Camp and he brings in the Personal Health and Medical form, and it is sealed in an enevolpe and I cannnot see the date on it, I have to take it to camp along with the scout to have the nurse at camp look at it to see if it is up to date, meaning dated within the last 3 years or 1 year if a scouter is over 40?

How would this work for High Adventures where there is no "nurse"?

 

 

 

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First since I started this thread I think I know what it was supossed to be about. Second, you are making it too personal. I created this so that I could get input from different scouts/scouters and compare protocols.

In addition emergency meds aka epi asthma meds etc.... are/have/will be carried on person the rest of the meds are kept in the health lodge.

 

-Jeff

 

Please feel free to respond or pm me in reference to wat i have written.

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Saltheart, not long ago we took a Scout to the hospital for stitches. Mom couldn't be reached by phone and the doctor stitched him up anyway. He even gave him antibiotics. Maybe you guys just need nicer doctors.

 

As I asked before, if the parental permission is useless, why have it at all? It isn't needed for life threatening situations because in those cases permission isn't needed to treat.

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