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Ok, I have to admit that I'm not an expert on this.

I have helped write the HIPPA, training guidelines that are used by my employer (UPMC)

As ever I do have some thoughts.

With all respect to BSA470Firstaider,I really am not that keen on Medical Forms, in the hands of anyone who is not an adult.

While I as a parent at this time do not have a problem sharing the medical history of my son, there are situations that I can think of that want me to change this.

I have had a Scouts mother inform me that he was on a medication to prevent bed wetting, he didn't know that she had informed me.

I really had no need to know.

Which brings me back to my rights as a parent.

I did not give up or hand over any of my parental rights, when my son joined the BSA.

As to medical information not being transmitted electronically. Yes the BSA has and does, we only have to look back to the Medical Forms and information used at the last National Jamboree.

While a lot of things might make sense, we do have to be very aware of the fact, that these youths are not our sons and daughters and we can not go over the line.

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Since you asked Jeff, I would prefer that the health and safety staff work with the adult leadership to insure the youth are drinking water and staying hydrated so that no one gets dehydrated. Isn't prevention the first course of medical treatment?


Next, I would like your treatment to match your diagnosis. If the scout had moderate to severe dehydration and heatstroke as you describe, then sports drink was the wrong treatment. Water or sports drink is recommended for mild cases only, Moderate cases usually require an IV which the EMT is not qualified to give. Severe cases (he was looking pretty bad) requires a physicians care). It is unlikely at 1/2 dillution that the tiny amount of red dye would worsen his condition or create a more severe medical condition than he was already in. The lesson learned here is that colored sport drinks are not the best choice of product to stock in case of such an emergency, and if you suspect heatstroke you should have been in conference with a physician.


By the way I consulted a physician for this reponse.


Jeff, no matter how much first aid training you have you need to understand the privacy issues involved in healthcare. Keep in mind also that as great as I think it is that you have an interest and aptitute for medical aide the greatest danger you will face is treating beyond your competency.


Best of luck,

Bob white





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Here's the flip side.

I have had a handicapped scout at camp with nothing listed on his form, even though his handicap was physical as well as mental.

He lasted one day. Left camp, left scouts

I have had a boy, whose parents told us he had allergy meds sent to the health lodge. No one was told that he had to have them every day. Turns out it was not allergy but anti depressive. The sorry part of this story is that the kid would not take them and spent a week in "hell" at camp as he jumped off the diving board into full blown depression. It is unfair to Scoutleaders, who basically are just parents, who try their best to help these kids. The family's privacy was maintained, but at what cost? The kid left scouts, bitterly.

As for rights, how about some honesty. Like not telling leaders the meds are for allergies and the boy will take them when he needs them. How about contacting the phys. for camp or the camp director and let them know that the kid has to go every day for meds. I can live happily with that.

Parents should always know what is happening healthwise with their kids.

Our troop maintains "the BOOK" with copies of health forms (mandated for camp), as well as every emergency number for contact that goes with us on all outings.

I believe that 99.9% parents will let someone know about their kids health needs. but that .1% really can screw up a day

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First i said dehydration I never brought up heat stroke. The high temp was not high enough to be of a worry. Second I would like to say thank you to jbroganjr I couldn't have had a better example myself. I want to ask a question how many people reading this feel that medical treatement should only be done by those over 18? Where I live I can tell you that a good bit of the FF and EMT's who respond are under 18. Now while as I respect your input and the input of the physician you have spoken with I just wanna say that I feel what I am doing is right because an adult in my troop (Level 1 Trauma Center Doc) and his wife(Level 1 Trauma R.N) brought their son to me and while I asked them to assist in any capacity they wanted they told me that they trust me. I'm gonna leave before I get too involved with this.




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Jeff, While you might be, and from your posting, sound like a responsible fellow. I have a 15 year old son, who much as I hate to admit it, he just would not be able to keep all the "Stuff" that goes on in the Health Lodge or appears on Medical Forms.

Imagine for a minute that someone he knows has the bedwetting problem ? Or worse.

While we can all think of "Horror Tales" I would think if anyone seen a Scout acting in such a strange way, we would contact the parents PDQ.

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noone said someone under 18 could not do first aid, we teach boys well under that age how to do that all the time. My own brother was an EMT at 18 and a paramedic at 21. He would be the first to admit there is a big difference between first aid and medical care. You are not yet trained to provide true medical care. That doesn't mean you aren't doing your best and shouldn't continue to learn. But you are not yet prepared to carry the responsibility of a medical professional.


Now Jeff I want you to think of jrbroganjr's examples and ask yourself some questions.


"I have had a handicapped scout at camp with nothing listed on his form, even though his handicap was physical as well as mental.

He lasted one day. Left camp, left scouts"


Was this first day of camp the first time this scout's troop leaders ever met him? Did they have no idea of what his abilities and needs were? How is that possible? What would having his health history and physical and medications known by anyone in the unit have changed his condition?


"I have had a boy, whose parents told us he had allergy meds sent to the health lodge. No one was told that he had to have them every day. Turns out it was not allergy but anti depressive."


Didn't anyone call the parents to ask if the wrong meds were sent, or for an explanation of what they had in their hands? If the bottle told them what the medication was didn't have the dosage on it? if the scout refused to take the prescribed medication why didn't the health professional call the parents and have the parents or guardians come get the scout. Was a medical professional even informed by the health lodge staff?


"The kid left scouts, bitterly."


Jeff, this boy suffered from depression, he left scouts bitterly? What evidence is there that this couldn't be attributed solely to his illness. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the leader respecting medical confidentiality.


These two examples do draw attention to a problem...but the problem is not whether or not leaders have access to confidential information.


"Parents should always know what is happening healthwise with their kids."


Yes they should, and they should share restrictions and health needs with leaders. But that doesn't mean they must share specifics of ilnesses or medications.


"Our troop maintains "the BOOK" with copies of health forms (mandated for camp), as well as every emergency number for contact that goes with us on all outings."


That's fine, but why can't that information be in a sealed envelope to be opened by medical professionals when the need for treatment arrives? You can have the information without having the information available for anyone who opens the book to see.


So you see we are not saying that parents shouldn't communicate or that health histories should be available. But all a parent has to tell is what they choose needs to be told, and you canb have the medical information available yet confidential. Medicating scouts is the responsibility of the scout. the BSA recommends in the Guide to Safe Scouting that if a scout cannot medicate themselves then the parent should be there to do it. The BSA neither requires or recommends that adult volunteers be responsible for medications.


Bob White

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You might not like my scenarios but they can happen. Adult leaders need to know the medical condition of the Scout in their care. Whether it is in the G2SS or YPT makes no difference.


Ed Mori


Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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Wow I go to school and come home to find like 5 replys. First the 16yo was an EMT-B the 17y.o was a first responder. I am an ARC/AHA/BSA First aid/CPR for the professional rescuer. I will be the first to admit that I am not a medical professional, but since you brought up the G2SS you never mentioned the BSA Guide to Health and Safety which states that in order to be a health officer all that is required is ARC first aid and CPR for the professional rescuer. I might as well give up on the medical forms aspect because this is turning into a whos right whos wrong debate not a whats right and whats wrong one.



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Jeff, no one is questioning your ability to treat the injuries you have been trained for. Again I'll say it, I think it's great that you have taken the training that you have and that you use that training to help others at camp. That does not train you to handle the legal or moral responsibilities for handling confidential medical information nor should you have to.


This is not about your abilities, this is about the families rights of privacy and the difference between what a leader needs to do the job and what they may want.


Please tell me if I am looking in the right resource, I have the BSA Guide to Health and Safety publication #34415B. So far I can find no portion mentioning the qualifications of any health lodge staff members. Please direct me to the right resource, or the section in this one that carries the information you sited.


In the meantime I checked with the local professional involved in summer camp. He said that national requires that you be at least 18 to be the Health Lodge director and recommends 21. The training requirement varies between councils but national recommends they be a licensed nurse, physician, or professional medical person such as an EMT or paramedic. They must be able to administer CPR and preferably be able to teach it.


Thanks, Hope this Helps,

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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yes we are talkina bout the same thing. I never said director heres what it says


The minimum training for the health officer in a resident camp is current training by the American Red Cross in Responding to Emergencies, which includes CPR, or National Safety Council First Aid and CPR level 2. One staff member for every 40 campers must be coached in first-aid practices for conditions most likely to occur in camp and trained in CPR by any recognized community agency. At least one food service staff person on duty should be trained in obstructed airway procedure.



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Thanks Jeff, if you could give me the section that's in because I can't find that in my manual. My point was there is supposed to be an adult in that area and they should be responsible for the health histories. I never said you were not qualified to be there to give aid. I really think you have taken offense where none was given.


Bob White

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First let me just say i'm not being deffensive or at least trying not to be. This is the site that it can be found on http://usscouts.org/usscouts/safety/Health/

In addition I found this

L. Medical Information


It is recommended that all members of the Boy Scouts of America have periodic medical evaluations by a physician. In recent years, in an effort to provide better care to those who may become ill or injured, and to provide youth members and adult leaders a better understanding of their own physical capabilities, the Boy Scouts of America has established minimum standards in providing medical information prior to participating in various activities. They are classified as follows:


Class l: Includes any event that does not exceed 72 consecutive hours, where the level of activity is similar to that normally expended at home or at school, and where medical care is readily available. Examples: day camp, day hike, swimming party, or an overnight camp. Medical information required is a current health history signed by parents or guardian. Den leaders, Scoutmasters, team coaches, and crew Advisors should review these and become knowledgeable about the medical needs of the youth members in their unit. Forms must be updated annually. They are filled out by participants and kept on file for easy reference.


Class 2: Includes any event that exceeds 72 consecutive hours where the level of activity is similar to that normally expended at home or at school, and where medical care is readily available. Examples, resident camping, tour camping, and hiking in relatively populated areas. Medical data required is an annual health history signed by parents or guardian supported by a medical evaluation completed within the past thirty-six months by a physician licensed to practice medicine*. The Personal Health and Medical Record-Class 2, No. 34414, is designed primarily for resident Cub Scout and Boy Scout summer camp but could be used for any Class 2 activity. Youth members and adult participants under 40 years of age use this form. (See Camp Health and Safety for additional information on Class 2 application.)


Class 3: Includes any event involving strenuous activity such as backpacking, high altitude, extreme weather conditions, cold water, exposure, fatigue, athletic competition, adventure challenge, or remote conditions where readily available medical care cannot be assured. Examples: high-adventure activities, jamborees, Venturing olympics, and extended backpacking trips in remote areas. Medical information required includes current health history supported by a medical evaluation within the past twelve months performed by a physician licensed to practice medicine*. Form 34412A is to be used by youth for Class 3 activities. Adults over 40 will use this form for Class 2 and Class 3 activities. See form No. 34414, Personal Health and Medical Record, for more information.


This states you must have a medical. If this is an invalid link please let me know.





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