Handling youth leadership issues.

[Roadkill Patrol 23]

Our troop seems to be slowly imploding and as adults not being in this position before, we are struggling to figure out what to do since we are due to perform youth leadership elections.

 

As some of our older scouts were aging out, we had the last 2 older scouts set to age out in November and December. One of them was the SPL and the other was a JASM. There are 11 other boys in the troop with ages and (ranks) of: 16(FC) 14(TF) 13(Star) 12(FC,SC,SC,TF,TF,TF) 11(Scout,Scout).

 

Well, without a alot of time to react, the JASM suddenly had a chance to go to Germany as an exchange student right before summer camp. This left our well respected SPL who was great with the boys and an asset to the adult leadership. Well, he just ended up moving away to North Dakota suddenly. Great, now what do we do? The 16 y/o ASPL, (who recently moved from patrol leader after the former ASPL aged out in June) and his 14 y/o brother now cannot attend the troop meetings due to band practice held the same night. Since it was recent that the ASPL position came available, the 16 y/o was only moved up as a test of his leadership ability since we already had a great SPL and elections were coming up soon. Summer camp with the ASPL in charge did not go well as others refused to listen to him, especially his 14 y/o brother. He also gets overwhelmed easily and will just shut down.

 

Anyway, what I was looking for is ideas from other troops that are comprised mostly of youth (13 and under) and how they handle the position of SPL. We are planning on training the new SPL (unfortunately we were not able to send the 16 & 13 y/o to NYLT this past year), but we are not sure whether we as adult leaders (SM & ASM) should appoint the SPL or let the troop elect one. The most experienced scout is the 13 y/o Star scout, who is currently the quartermaster. However I do know of some that would not elect him just based on the fact they wouldn't listen to him when he was quartermaster and the election would be more of a popularity contest. Any thoughts or ideas?

 

BTW - please don't say to leave it up to the committee, because there barely is one. We have been unable to get the committee together for a few months now. There are only 4 committee members besides the SM and 2 ASMS (one being myself who also serves as the committee secretary since we don't have one). Our adult leadership is not much better off than the youth leadership. We have 7 upcoming Webelos crossing over next February and when we asked how many adults would like to serve on the committee, we got zero to commit. We are going to work harder as the crossover gets closer, reminding them that the program needs volunteers to keep it running.

[shortridge 184]

11 boys is just barely a single patrol (especially with two of them unable to attend meetings regularly). You don't need an SPL and ASPL. Focus on being a single unit first, with a PL. That's the most important job in the troop.

 

With regard to the ASPL who had a rough time during summer camp - how much advance warning did he have that he was going to have to be SPL for camp? How much training did he get in his new position beforehand? He may have planned on a fun summer at camp, just helping out the SPL, and found himself unexpectedly in charge. That can be a lot of pressure.

[Beavah 205]

Definitely don't leave it up to the committee! They don't know diddly. Leave it up to the boys.

 

With only 10 lads, yeh most likely are best as a one-patrol troop rather than two small patrols of 4 with an SPL/ASPL. The small patrols would just collapse through ordinary attendance issues on an outing, and that's not good patrol method. So for right now, yeh don't need an SPL or ASPL, just a Patrol Leader and whoever the Patrol Leader feels he needs to appoint to positions to help him out. An assistant, a quartermaster, whoever.

 

Then hold an election for PL. Yeh can defuse da popularity thing just by giving some guidance and limiting each candidate to substance. What trips did he plan and run in the last year? Can they commit to being at everything or will they miss a lot for band, Etc. No joke speeches and such, and yeh can further limit the position by rank (if your ranks mean something), or age, or scoutmaster approval in some other way. Require NYLT or TLT or a SM conference for each candidate where yeh outline expectations and such. Whatever you think it needs. The boys will select natural leaders that they'll listen to, and if you filter a bit for boys with necessary skills or responsibility yeh should get what yeh need. Then yeh work with da PL to help him select other PORs.

 

And then yeh work your tail off on teachin' these new young leaders so that they can succeed!

 

B

[shortridge 184]

Additionally: Get the boys planning now about how they'd like to welcome the 7 new Scouts when they cross over next year - first few meetings, first few campouts, special adventures, etc. Will they want to use that opportunity to split into two patrols, both with a mixture of experienced and new boys? And make sure your adult leadership takes a look at the logistics and finances, as well (meeting space, patrol corners, event transportation, gear). If both adult and youth aren't prepared, you're going to lose most of those new boys.

[qwazse 4349]

I'm a little confused, are you down to 11 or down to 9? Either way, I agree with the above. For your troop, the era of big government is over! Be one patrol until you all think things are getting too crowded again.

 

I would limit PL eligibility to FC+.

 

Make sure the band kids are offered a position they can perform off hours. (E.g. Bugler, Historian, etc ... They don't have to take it, just let them know that you still feel they can be an essential part of the troop.) Let them know that even in those positions, if they make an effort to do their jobs well, you will still send them to NYLT.

 

Also consider that you now have time to offer a position of responsibility to each boy and track how well they perform it.

 

As a recruitment reminder, you may want to hang a blank flag somewhere with the label "our next patrol". Point out to your two SC scouts that if they make rank they could be eligible to lead it.

 

Finally, remind your parents that they have an opportunity to uniquely serve the best 11 boys around. Their boss might not be grateful for any extra hours they put in over the next few years, but these boys will cherish them for-almost-ever.

[Roadkill Patrol 23]

Shortridge: I like the idea of no SPL or ASPL and just having PL's. Did not think of that option. We are looking at having elections asap so that the boys who need a POR for rank can start earning that. It has also been 7 months since the last election and having the elections now is going to help when the next election rolls around after the crossover.

 

The ASPL was aware he was going to be in charge about a month before summer camp. He performs well in school, however, socially he has some personal issues we hoped he could overcome by being in a leadership position.

 

qwazse: Technically we have 11 boys on the charter, but with 2 heavily involved in band, we really have 9 active youth to rely on. Now I just found out that one of the PL's will be absent for awhile for football.

 

 

 

[Eagle92 110]

My opinion is the following.

 

1) Set it up as 1 patrol.

2) Make sure that the PL can meet the following requirements

A. Second Class (would prefer FC) or above.

B. Can commit to attending all events for 6 months.

C. Willing to get training.

3) Have an election with those youth that meet the requirements.

 

In regards to training, of course they need the current stuff. I'd also recommend using the 3rd ed. SMHB training syllabus since you got a small group. Of course it will need some modifying for today, btu it's THE foundation to the patrol method.

[Stosh 3452]

I have run into this problem in the past and solved it. Unfortunately it is not a quick fix. What most troops do is latch onto a few of the natural leaders and while everything is rolling along smoothly, sit back and enjoy the ride. However, very little if anything is done to train, develop, inspire, younger boys to take on leadership. Thus the leadership pool remains quite small. As long as the strong leaders keep taking up the slack the adults don't think much about it. However, once one has these strong leaders quit, age out, or "retire" it leave a large vacuum in the system.

 

All the boys and every position needs depth. That way when the one "elected" to the position is not available, there is always someone waiting in the wings for a chance to step up and take over. No one is going to step up if they have never had the chance to try it out a few times in the past. As a last resort, the pool of older leaders can be asked to come back for an event and lead a patrol or be QM, or whatever.

 

It starts with the NSP where every boy is taught under the tutelage of the TG to be the PL. By the time that boy is 13 he should have have enough confidence under his belt to be able to step up for real. This also allows the older boys to step back and leave a controlled vacuum of leadership so the younger boys have a chance at the reins now and then. The 16+ year-olds should be in their own patrol, that as the need arises they can step into the leadership positions to temporarily keep things running if a boy is going to be gone for an event. I believe that the 13-15 year-olds ought to be running the show for 98% of the time.

 

I watched this process when I was a kid in my church's Sunday School. After confirmation there was no more official teaching being done for the youth. Instead, a high school teacher from the church taught the 13 year olds how to teach. There was always a pool of substitute teachers from that class that could take over and run a class on an as-needed basis throughout the year. At the end of the year, the entire Vacation Bible School was taught by the students in this class! The VBS had 3, maybe 4 adults in supportive roles and the rest were kids teaching kids. Why can't this dynamic be applied to leadership in the troop?

 

There is nothing worse for a troop to have, after 3 years in the troop, a 14 year-old boy that can't take on SPL, PL, or whatever. Too often elections means that someone with no training gets stuck with a position that no one else can have. If that person can't make an event, no one else has a "patch on their sleeve" that can take over and help out. No one is going to step forward and take on a task that they do not have the training and confidence that allows them to be successful.

 

Stosh

[sst3rd 129]

Roadkill patrol,

 

As all of this uncertainty happens, make sure all of the adult leaders maintain a positive attitude. Fall is big for football and band. It happens. Don't let anything get you, the other adult leaders, and the remaining Scouts down. Have an election for a Patrol Leader, and keep those activities rolling. When the active Scouts see that all of the activities will happen even as a few Scouts are doing something else, they feel confident knowing that their program is important. Keep the camping trips fun and exciting. Keep moving ahead, and soon the other Scouts will get back to the program, knowing that no activities were cancelled because they chose to do something else. You lead, you follow, or get out of the way.

Encourage all of the adult leaders to keep supporting the Troop as you go through this transitional period. The Scouts are watching and listening. Set a good example.

 

sst3rd

 

sst3rd

[qwazse 4349]

I wholeheartedly agree with jblake. The age of accountability for religion is generally 13-ish, and kids should take some responsibility for educating those younger (or maybe less fortunate, depending on where they worship) than they are.

 

In scouting "leadership starts now" should be the attitude and no position of responsibility should be considered "a lesser position." I've seen some QM's work harder and lead more than some SPL's. No, a 12-year-old tenderfoot should not worry about PL being dumped on his shoulders, but he should see his buddy one year older being held up as a potential leader.

 

Just a thought, you may want to look closely at the football schedule and see if there's a campsite close to a game location (at least for one night in the fall).

 

This might give the football and band guys a chance to at least camp the night after the game. Even if the athletes have to leave early the next day to review film, they might appreciate having breakfast with the troop.

 

P.S. - Anyone who only has 12-year-old tenderfoot scouts, go ahead and have them elect one set of shoulders to dump PL on. It'll work out.

[Roadkill Patrol 23]

Thank you all for the very helpful ideas...this is exactly the kind of guidance I was looking for. We have a campout coming up this weekend and we can discuss this around the campfire.

[Eagledad 2781]

Eagle92 does a good job highlighting the general approach. Im a little different from the others in that I would keep the SPL for two reasons: One, big changes in program generally set a troop back one step before it goes forward two steps. Two, the troop is going to need the SPL in a few months when you get the new scouts, so keep the part of the program consistent and save the hassle of going back and forth.

 

I would however stay with one patrol, skip the ASPL and let the PL be the second in leadership stature.

 

I think the troop needs to have a Troop Leadership Develop course for only those scouts qualified to be leaders (1st Class and above) and actually want to be a leader. While you are in a crises mode right now, you really need to be thinking six months from now. So I personally would push to get your 16, 14, 13 and 12 year old 1st Class scouts trained to work together for the troop six months from now.

 

I know the 16 and 14 year old cant make meetings, but they should be able make a one day four hours Saturday Leadership Development Course. The course needs to be just the basics of running the troop. I would include those four oldest scouts above, the SM and the ASM. When you have a discussion about this at your campout, I would suggest the SM and ASM will be part of the trainees so the scouts can use them as resources. The objective of the Saturday training is to become a team.

 

Get the SPL Handbook for everyone in the Saturday training and use it as the focus for everyone to work from the same guidelines. Dont make drastic changes from your program, but use SPLHB as a reference for when things get confusing or stalled. Again, since both the adults and scouts are using the same reference, you are working as a team, not as adults and scouts. Once the youth side of the program gets their confidence back and can run without the adults (three months?), then you step back out of it.

 

As for the election, well you really need to use your SM skills in pushing for the most qualified scout to be the SPL Im saying the 13 year old really needs to be it because he has more experiences, rank and age. My thinking is six months from now in that since the 14 and 16 year olds will be back in six months, you need your best qualified scout to be the New Scout Guide or TP for the new scouts. Even if you decide to mix the new scouts with your present scouts now and divide the troop into two patrols (that is what I would do), its still good to have one scout who is dedicated in making sure the new scouts are doing OK in the program for their first couple of months. The past SPL is the perfect fit because they have confidence in working with others. You can either call him the TG, or do what our troop did and make him the ASPL. Once the new scouts are settled in, he can go about the ASPL duties.

 

As for your Saturday training, make it only about four hours long. Thats all the scouts can absorb. Provide them pizza and pop for lunch, and a treat like icecream when youre finished. There is a great team building exercise using ice cream if you like. Keep the agenda to basics like how to Lead a PLC meeting, Troop Meeting and Campout. Get the scouts to use very basic agenda for each. I believe the SPL Handbook has sample agendas.

 

Scouts, and really adults as well, only absorb about 20% of what you train, so I learned that what you are really training for is to develop the confidence of getting through the next meeting. Dont train your scouts to get through the next month or next year of program, just get them excited to run the next meeting. Then meet with the SPL or scouts after the meeting and discuss a few ideas to help improve the next meeting. I would suggest the same group who trained together have little 10 minute meetings before and after every Troop and PLC meeting. Become a team. I know the 14 and 16 year olds cant be there much, but you might see if they can at least come at the end of the troop meeting to listen in on how you and the SPL discuss the performance of the meeting and changes to make it better. You want everyone to feel a part of a team working together to be a better troop. Your job is to get everyone to support the other persons responsibilities. The four scouts should be seen as a bonded group who work together. If one scout hassles one of the four, then they will find themselves dealing with all four. That is how all our PLCs work in our troop. Adults should stay back.

 

If all goes well, you guys should be working together pretty good in about three months. That is when I would start discussing how to work with the new scouts who are coming.

 

I know that seems like a complex approach, but Ive been where you are at and it was one of the more successful ways we got out of our situation. And, Im not so proud to think this is the only way to do this, its just one of many.

 

If all goes well in however you do this, you will look back on this in a few months and realized how much fun you and your scouts had working the problem. Your Troop will probably grow in character in the next few months more then it has in the last couple of years.

 

I look forward to reading about your progress.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry