What is the Patrol Method, And How do I implement it (well)?

[Beavah 205]

Yah, so LongHaul's plea to da group seems like a good topic, eh? What do each of us see as the Patrol Method, and how exactly do we implement it?

 

As threadstarter, though, I'm going to beg da group for three favors:

 

1) No quoting books, manuals, or "authorities" dead or alive. Speak only from your own personal experience on what you did, and how it worked for your kids.

 

2) Be completely honest. That means sharing what the challenges/failures/weak points were of the way you implemented the patrol method, as well as it's strengths. Try to be as complete about strengths - for example, if you say "youth run", what exactly did the youth take ownership of and do, and what was still adult stuff? How many of the youth did the running? How well? etc. etc.

 

3) No critiquing or criticizing someone else's post as being wrong, incorrect, not by the book, or whatnot. Real, honest "I want to understand better" questions only.

 

Sharing failures is OK, too. "Hey, we did this, and it didn't work for us at all" is often more useful than "everything worked great."

[FScouter 24]

Youre seeking to limit the discussion to home-brew ideas only. Your disdain for BSA methods, disseminated through BSA publications is well known.

 

The best and foremost source for how to run a BSA program is BSA publications. The practices put forth in the publications are the result of thousand of ideas, methods, and practices from Scouters all over the country over many years. Theyve been tested, revised, and tested again before being published. BSA methods are proven to work.

 

There is a place for new approaches, surely. But the road to success in fulfilling the Mission is littered with new ideas that dont work. When asked, I always advise to go methods that are proven to work. And those methods are found in BSA publications.

[Beavah 205]

Nah, FScouter, my "disdain" is for people who quote BSA materials without demonstratin' any genuine knowledge or experience, eh? Like an amateur tellin' an attorney how liability really works 'cause he read about it online, or a businessman trying to tell a teacher how a classroom should be run because he read a book about teaching. The printed materials can be great, eh, but rendered into nonsense when spouted off by those without experience.

 

Your personal jab in response to a legitimate scoutin' topic, though, is a sterling example of courtesy and kindness that I'm sure we'd all be happy to share with da young people we care about, eh? If yeh don't like it, ignore the thread.

 

To clarify, for everyone else, all responses are welcome - how you implement the BSA Patrol Method, in your interpretations of the BSA materials or in your tweaks. What works for you and your kids, that the rest of us who are interested can learn from?

 

[Lisabob 13]

While Beavah and I tend to disagree a lot on the worth of specific BSA guidelines and rules, and how to interpret them, I still see some value in this thread as he has outlined it. So here goes.

 

Last night we welcomed 9 new scouts to their first troop meeting. My son has been with the troop for 2 years now and he has served as a PL for the last 6 months. So I'll talk about what I know best from observation - younger scout patrols. Some of what the troop does is "by the book" and some is not. As a committee member I don't have a whole lot of voice over changing certain things so please don't bother criticizing me personally where we deviate from standard BSA approach- I already know and that's the way things are right now.

 

1) We use New Scout Patrols. Our 9 guys who came in last night from 2 different packs were put together by the SM into a NSP.

 

2) The SM assigns an older scout as patrol leader for at least 6 months for the NSP. The young man who is serving in this role for the NSP now will graduate high school in June (he is attending summer camp though) so per force the patrol will have to elect its own leadership in the fall. Usually this older scout stays on as a troop guide in the fall. After the first year is up, it seems he becomes just another patrol member in most cases.

 

3) The boys in the NSP select an APL and other patrol positions (scribe, QM). However I think this is a weakness in our program as the other patrol positions tend not to do very much.

 

4) Sometimes we've used troop guides, appointed by the SM, in addition to assigning a PL for the new scouts. I've seen varied results, largely dependent on the troop guide's maturity and the SM's ability/willingness to coach them. More often than not, I haven't understood what the value of an additional TG is because they don't seem to do much. Again I think this is a weakness in our program - the position is poorly defined and largely up to the scout, who may not know what to do.

 

5) All of our patrols have an ASM assigned as a patrol advisor, but the PA is more active with the NSPs than with the others. This is something that the troop started doing about 8-10 months after my son joined. Again, personality is everything.

 

6) After the first year there tends to be some shake-up as patrols grow or shrink due to additional recruitment or drop outs. At that point they become somewhat less age-based. So aside from last year's NSPs (which are on their last legs) and the one we started up last night, we have three other patrols. One is 10th-12th graders and the other 2 are a mix of 7th-10th graders. We don't have any 8th graders and only a couple 9th graders so these 2 patrols are dominated by younger scouts.

 

My perception is that the juggling of patrol membership is done primarily by the SM with a pro forma discussion at the PLC.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens with the NSPs from last year, which are both down to about half their original size. Some of the members of one of these patrols are difficult to get along with and I know the older patrols are reluctant (might be putting it too lightly!) to welcome these guys into THEIR reasonably smooth-functioning groups. The most obvious answer is to combine all of last year's new scouts into one patrol.

 

Analysis:

Assigning a PL to the NSP has plusses and minuses. Get the right older scout in there and he can work magic. My son believed that his PL could walk on water and having this older scout as his friend was a major reason my son stayed with the troop when things were not going well for him. And teaching leadership is tricky. As others said in the thread on NSPs, if you have roughly age-based patrols it can be the blind leading the blind if you just throw a bunch of 10-11 year olds together and expect someone to rise to the task. So assigning one or more older scouts can make a huge difference in the success rate/retention rate of the new patrol and in reducing the learning curve.

 

But. Get the wrong older scout and it is a mess - he's more interested in playing than in leading and those young guys can be a real challenge! If the role model behaves poorly then things are going down hill from there.

 

Also there's a fine line between providing or modeling leadership and just doing things for the young scouts. Go too far over that line and you teach dependence rather than self-reliance. I saw that with my son's PL - great kid, my son still thinks very highly of him, but he had a hard time knowing how to lead without just doing it all himself. The first time they had PL elections, my son's patrol opted to keep the older scout who had begun as their assigned PL - no surprise there, he's better at it than they were. But it puts in place a structure where younger scouts do not have to actually lead for a very long time, for better or worse.

 

(Since then, this older scout moved on to another troop leadership position, necessitating that at the 18 month point, the patrol choose a PL from their own group - and they elected my son, to his surprise.)

 

From the perspective of the older scouts, I suppose there are times when being put into a patrol of 10-11 year olds can be seriously annoying. Especially if they are a tough group to work with. In one case in the last couple of years we had a NSP where nearly half the members had serious behavioral issues (this was coincidence!) . The scout who was assigned to be their PL really had a tough time and I felt for him. I am sure he'd have preferred, on some days, to retreat to the patrol where all his buddies were.

 

More generally - one of the things I hear consistently in BORs and from my son and his friends in conversation, is that being PL is not that much fun. It is a lot of work. My son can't wait to be done with the job next month and he only got elected in the first place because the older scouts in his somewhat-mixed-age patrol (12-15 with most being 12-13) "knew better" than to run! Doesn't seem like the outcome we really want to encourage. A more vertical patrol structure would, perhaps, avoid this problem. On the other hand, my son has learned a great deal, most of it positive, from being PL for 6 months, an experience he probably wouldn't have had in a more vertical patrol.

 

Well ok, that's more rambling on than anybody probably wants to read! So I'll cut it, err, short (ha - sorry). But I'd be interested in hearing how other folks do things "in reality" too.

[AntelopeDud 10]

LisaBob,

 

My Troop does similar to what you do, but with variations. All of our new Scout go to a NSP upon crossover. They stay there 9-12 months, depending upon their progress. Last year we had over 20 new Scouts join our Troop, so we were able to create 2 NSPs.

 

Each NSP had two older Scouts as their Troop Guides. We had a stronger pair of leaders guide NSP A last year than NSP B. In that, I mean that one of the Troop Guides for NSP A was a little more mature, had better leadership and conflict management skills, and therefore was better at bringing the patrol together.

 

At the end of the year, NSP A had about 9 Scouts in it where NSP B had 3. This turned out to be an interesting experiment.

 

We also had specific ASMs for these NSPs. While they helped the Scout do some planning, they stayed at an arms length as they would have with any other patrol. The head ASM for New Scouts has realized that there needs to be added focus on continual leadership trining for Troop Guides. Mainly because they are going to have problems that other patrols don't. With this new group, they are going to do just that and be more hands-on with the Troop Guides and communicating with them more closely. IMO, the Troop guides will end up as the best leadership trained Scouts in the unit due to their experience.

 

We then take our new Scouts (after 9 mos to a year) and mix them into existing patrols. That works very well for us. I feel that the mix of young boys and older boys in all patrols helps the growing process as they older ones get an opportunity to be role maodels, whether or not they are Patrol Leaders, and the new boys get the benefit of being closer with an older Scout and learning from him.

 

-AD

[Oak Tree 15]

Reading about other people's experiences is the main benefit I get from this forum. That type of interaction is also the most valuable thing I get from BSA training. I am just baffled by any suggestion that asking for people's experience is somehow an inappropriate topic, and I'm disappointed at the unfriendly tone that greets such a request.

 

Per the original question:

 

Our troop uses New Scout Patrols that last for a year. We ask for volunteers for Troop Guides, and we assign one guide to each patrol. Each new patrol also elects its own patrol leader. For all patrols, there is an assigned patrol advisor, an ASM, and those for the NSPs are much more active.

 

The troop has varied quite a bit over the last few years. When my son started, the troop pretty much did troop cooking. Now it's entirely patrol cooking. The troop used to remix patrols every six months. Recently we've been doing the remixing once a year.

 

At one point the troop rarely had patrol corners. Then there came a time where the SPL decided the entire troop meeting would be patrol corners. For some of this time, the patrol would choose a merit badge to work on. This was an improvement on the troop-wide merit badge work that they had sometimes done, but it still was not great because a number of the boys weren't interested in the badge that the patrol chose. Recently the patrol corners have mostly been focused on preparations for the monthly events.

 

On the camping trips is where the patrol method is most obvious and most effective. Each patrol has their own patrol box of equipment, which they are responsible for. They are quite effective at doing their own meal planning, cooking, and cleaning. (Well, relatively effective considering their level of expertise. There are certainly some lessons being learned.)

 

Oak Tree

[GernBlansten 10]

When my son crossed over, our troop was in transition. It had a long history of being a Webelos 3 troop and quite successful at it. It was really just a high adventure and camping club. Many of the older boys enjoyed it that way. That SM retired a couple of years before my son joined. A rough transition took place, with a different SM every year. The troop was on the fast track to extinction. Finally, a dedicated scouter took the SM slot and started the long path back to BSA ideals. Three of us new scout dads got trained as ASMs and came back full of good intentions to go boy led. That was two years ago. The remaining older scouts resented the change to the patrol method and more work being put on them. That increased their attrition rate. However, it increased our recruiting dramatically. 80% of our scouts are now under 13 and our numbers are increasing.

I'm hopeful these new scouts can be formed into a model example of the patrol method. It hasn't worked well with the old guard, they just aren't interested in leading.

 

I wish this all happened two years before we joined. Its been difficult for my son but now he has an opportunity to set things right.

[Eagledad 2777]

>>The remaining older scouts resented the change to the patrol method and more work being put on them. That increased their attrition rate. However, it increased our recruiting dramatically. 80% of our scouts are now under 13 and our numbers are increasing.

I'm hopeful these new scouts can be formed into a model example of the patrol method. It hasn't worked well with the old guard, they just aren't interested in leading.

 

I wish this all happened two years before we joined. Its been difficult for my son but now he has an opportunity to set things right.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, so here's a Patrol Method setup from a large (120 boys) troop I know that's very successful.

 

New Scouts

New Scouts are brought into one of 3-4 New Scout patrols, more or less by Webelos Den but it never quite works out evenly. There's a Troop Guide and an ASM or adult "patrol coach" for each NSP. There's also a "Lead ASM for New Scouts" and an "ASPL for New Scouts".

 

The New Scouts program is very tightly focused on FCFY, so much that they have a pretty well-defined "curriculum" that is managed by the ASM/ASPL for that division. They may attend campouts on their own (just NSPs) or with the rest of the troop, but even when they're with the rest of the troop a fair bit is just New Scout Curriculum rather than troop program. Patrol competitions happen between NSPs, but not outside the first year program.

 

This highly structured and supported method gets us around 85-90% retention through first year. It takes a lot of arm twisting to recruit Troop Guides, though.

 

Middle Program

At the end of first year, NSP's disband. Boys can choose to form a new patrol or join one of the Middle Program existing patrols. Still, there's some coordination/control by the "Lead ASM for the Middle Program." The structure also includes an ASPL-Middle Program. Patrols at this level have a less structured "curriculum" and have more flexibility, but there's still a kind of standard program based on required MB's. Each patrol continues to have an adult patrol coach.

 

There's a lot more attrition in the Middle Program, as boys move from the highly structured first-year program to the less structured program. A lot of the attrition is associated with sports choices/outside commitments. Typically half way through each year, patrols re-align into fewer, stronger patrols.

 

Both the NSPs and the MiddlePs do car-camping almost exclusively. Hard to do anything else with that many boys, eh?

 

Venture Patrols

There's a very strong older boys/Venture Patrol set, again with a Lead ASM and an ASPL for this program, and an ASM patrol coach. Venture Patrols are fairly independent - lots of backpacking and such. Most of the Senior Leadership (troop positions, ASPLs, etc.) are drawn from this group, and the SPL is required to have been a former ASPL. Multiple high adventure trips run every year, and retention at this level is high.

 

Da troop graduates about 6 Eagles a year, almost always Age 16-17.

 

Obviously, the "outer structure" of this program is very adult-specified. Within that structure, youth take on a lot of responsibility for "making things happen". There's a lot of adult coaching to assist when needed. In many ways, this unit runs 3 semi-independent programs under one roof.

 

It's a successful program, with a very well liked SM, and a lot of happy kids/families.

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, now here's another example of patrol method, for a mid-sized troop of about 50 boys. I know this troop a bit better than the last one, because I'm still a MC/UC for this unit. Like the last unit, it's very successful, and could easily have more boys if it wanted 'em, but it likes not to get bigger.

 

New Scouts

The troop does a long new scout transition program, workin' with local packs starting in September, and workin' up from short visits to day trips to overnights. At crossover, boys are put into patrols by the PLC, based on their/their parents requests, the older boys' notion of good personality fit, and some rough sense of numbers balance. Boys from dens are almost always kept together, and friends always are. There's a TG who also helps with communication/transition stuff for the first summer.

 

Within patrols, da PL and other older boys are the ones who help out the new guys. There's no "curriculum", they just teach things as they come up. Tent setup and such naturally come first.

 

This troop has a 1st year retention rate of about 70% or so. Most of the losses are to sports programs.

 

Regular Program

With about 5 patrols led by high-school-aged scouts, there's usually some sort of separate patrol outing every month or two. On outings, patrol competitions and "patrol points" are a regular feature, and patrols also get recognition when anyone in their patrol advances. That's an incentive for da younger guys to be encouraged and moved along. Still, there's no emphasis at all on FCFY, boys finish FC typically around the time they're emotionally ready for a position of responsibility.

 

This troop is not a car camping troop, I doubt if they do more than one car-camping trip per year. Backpacking, snowshoeing, paddling, climbing, their program is hugely active, and First Year boys are full participants. That works because there are a lot of old hands in each patrol helpin' and watchin' out for the younger fellas. I suspect it'd never work if one TG was responsible for 12 beginner paddlers.

 

The youth leadership structure is pretty traditional, with one SPL and ASPL who work as a team. Individual troop outings usually have a "lead patrol" and the PL/APL are responsible for that outing.

 

Attrition for this unit after 1st year is nearly zero, with the only losses due to family moves out of town.

 

Venture Program

This troop also has a very active Venture Patrol, that sort of runs on the Senior Patrol/OA model. The Venture Patrol members are FC scouts who have been voted in by current VP members. Unlike the last troop, this Venture program never uses "bases" like Philmont, but always does their own high adventure planning from scratch, led by a Venture "Crew Chief" (terminology from the 1990s version of the program). The boys plan and lead things like 3-week Yosemite lead climb trips.

 

The Venture Program in this unit effectively serves as the major part of the TLT program for training youth leaders and instructors.

 

Overall, this unit does not provide a lot of adult structure. Safety planning, budgeting, reservations, hiking routes, patrol activities, how elections are held, patrol membership and structure, instruction are all handled by the youth leaders. Patrol outings, or segments of regular outings done by patrol, may be "adult free." Adults still handle transportation and payments, coordinating with the kids.

 

They graduate about 2-3 Eagles per year.

[fox709 10]

Beavah:

 

This has been another insightful and informative thread!

 

Can you elaborate a bit more about the "lead patrol" concept at campouts and other outdoor activities? Do they decide on the major activities and scheduling for that outing? Or, is that handled at the PLC and the "lead patrol" simply takes responsiblity for insuring that the plan and program occur as intended?

[Beavah 205]

Can you elaborate a bit more about the "lead patrol" concept at campouts and other outdoor activities? Do they decide on the major activities and scheduling for that outing? Or, is that handled at the PLC and the "lead patrol" simply takes responsiblity for insuring that the plan and program occur as intended?

 

Yah, let's see...

 

The outing calendar is decided by an uber-PLC (patrol leaders, assistant PL's, and troop POR's all together). That includes goals and budget for each event.

 

The lead patrol thing is sorta like assigning a patrol to do opening ceremony at a meeting, except that the patrol is responsible for a whole outing. So the patrol handles the entire outin', or pretty close - activities, event schedule, location, reservations, safety plan, etc. - all keepin' to the PLC's goals and budget. Most of da time, havin' a PLC (or any committee) try to do detail planning is a losing proposition, eh? Easier with just a few folks. It's kinda like the PL/APL act as SPL/ASPL for that outing, with their patrol members as support. Sometimes, the lead patrol for an outing also runs "prep" outing(s) or meetings.

 

It's sort of a neat system, eh? Younger boys in the patrol get tastes of leadership in bein' delegated parts of outings to run. APL's learn outing leadership from PL's, and both get lots of opportunities for practice. SPL and ASPL coach and provide assistance for PL's where needed, but don't get saddled with running everything. It allows for a packed schedule. I think communication gets a bit tougher, since the "lead person" changes between events. Older, more experienced PL's start to think of Patrol Outings as less work/more fun, so yeh get some more creative patrol outings, and sometimes those then become a troop outing the following year - led by the patrol that developed it, eh?

 

Not a system for everybody. I think it relies on the vertical patrols and high retention rate for older boys, so all the work of years of learnin' pays off. The pull-out Venture/Senior patrol also seems important to them for leader training/rewarding. And yeh need to have a pretty active and athletic set of adults to keep up with da lads .

 

As an alternative, though, I've known a few troops that designate a PL or troop POR as "lead guy" for each outing, to manage outing planning, reservations and such, who then looks to the PLC rather than his patrol for support help. Yet another flavor of the method, though one that still relies on mixed-age patrols with more experienced boys as PL's.

 

[gwd-scouter 11]

EagleDad posts: I even let the new scouts know that Webelos are looking up to them.

 

I really like that and it seems to be working with us. We don't have a real patrol method I guess since we're so small we only have one patrol. We do have an SPL and ASPL, but they are in reality the PL and APL but like the other titles better (in another post I mentioned we are down to just eight active Scouts now).

 

We are having a Troop/Webelos campout at the end of the month and have invited Webelos Dens from two Packs. Our SPL and ASPL have so far outlined some great ideas and have presented them to the other guys in the Troop. Our SPL was just elected last month and already I know he'll do a great job. He was talking about the upcoming campout and told the guys "you younger guys, this will be a chance for you to show these little dudes (his words) what Boy Scouts is all about."

 

Don't you know the younger Scouts in our Troop got excited about that.

 

So, very little troop, but working the patrol method the best we can.

 

 

 

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, gwd brings up another reality - the small troop. There's a lot of 'em out there. I didn't put up an example of Patrol Method in one because I don't thing they often really work patrol method, though maybe someone else can chime in.

 

Most small troops operate in single, age-mixed "troop method" as gwd describes. The only other choice is creatin' very small patrols that frequently collapse due to absentees on any given outing. That don't work, eh? So best to be one "patrol" that does the same sort of old-guys-watchin'-out-for-and-teachin'-young-guys routine as a mixed-age patrol in a larger troop. Yeh can see in gwd's great posts about youth leadership in their troop exactly how each patrol should be in a larger troop.

 

The tough thing is when a small troop grows, as we hope gwd's will . Then you're faced with 3 choices:

 

Troop Method - the easy default choice that most units make. Just keep doin' what you've been doin', but with more people.

 

New Scout Patrol Split - bring in that big group of new recruits as a separate new scout patrol, and start to build a same-age (horizontal) patrol structure. Second easiest, keeps the old "functioning" group together, but requires a lot of resources to help the new guys without becomin' Webelos III.

 

Mixed-Age Patrol Split - take your current group of high-functioning guys and let 'em split up to become the leadership team of two patrols, and add new guys to each. Moves more of your original group into leadership positions, splits up the young guys into manageable chunks. Enables patrol competition.

 

The split into patrols should only happen when yeh have enough to make both patrols "viable", usually around 16-20 boys in the modern world. It's easier to go to mixed-age if you're gettin' slow, steady increases in recruitment. Often, though, you suddenly get a big jump, and double troop size overnight. That's a tough camel to swallow, and pushes people toward NSPs (as a way of delayin' absorbing those guys into the "regular" troop). Though it's tough on the youth leaders, I think it's ultimately better for the troop in the long run to split up the incomin' guys, and then find time for a few special "old guys only" things like a really cool JLT week (which may eventually lead into a Venture Patrol).

 

The other thing I wouldn't necessarily do right away is have an ASPL/SPL. When yeh go from 1 to 2 patrols, best to have your two best guys be PL's. It'll strengthen the patrols and move you more firmly away from "troop method." Save the SPL-as-coordinator role for when you get up to 3 patrols and have been there a year or two.

 

Whichever method you prefer, I think we could do a lot better helpin' units think through these practical things, don't yeh? They make a huge difference in the "feel" and character of a troop.

 

[Stosh 3452]

I'll chime in on the small troop concept.

 

Our SPL, ASPL, and another Star ranked scout make up the honors patrol. They basically function as a patrol of JASM's. They are the go-to people that keep things running.

 

The NSP has 6 new members with assigned PL/APL from older boys. The ASM of the honors patrol and NSP is the same person.

 

There are three other patrols, one of older scouts which hangs together working on Eagle projects and two other patrols which have lost sufficient numbers to eventually merge. That was recommended by one of the patrol leaders when we took the PL from one patrol and the APL from the other to lead the NSP. I see that merger happening within the next couple of weeks.

 

Each patrol functions independently of the others and combine programming on occasion. If we are doing a major instructional program for the NSP, one of the other patrols might jump in and help with the hands-on/one-on-one training part of the program.

 

The PL of the NSP is functionally the Troop Guide and the APL of the NSP is the Instructor.

 

We have a large number of scouts that serve dual POR's The SPL is the PL of the Honors Patrol and the ASPL is the APL of the Honors Patrol and a Den Chief in a Webelos Den. The other Honors Patrol member is a Den Chief as well and will drop out of his patrol regularly to be Instructor to the NSP.

 

Our leadership continually bubbles to the top. If the PL of the NSP does well this year with the boys he will be a prime candidate for the Honors Patrol as soon as he attains the Star rank. Another scout that steps up to the plate and shows leadership potential will be asked to be PL of next year's NSP.

 

Leadership is trained, demonstrated, and rewarded in our troop. Not everyone aspires to leadership and may fulfill their POR responsibilities as a Quartermaster or Scribe. However, those who wish to work with others usually cut their teeth as a Den Chief, and work there way up through the leadership levels along with their personal achievements of rank.

 

Keep it in mind, ASPL/PL/Den Chief of the Honors Patrol was not able to go on our winter high adventure activity this year because although he was at Star rank, he was not old enough to qualify.

 

The rule we follow revolves around: "We will provide the opportunities, it's up to you to make something of them."

 

Not everyone rises to the occasion, which is ok, there will be other opportunities, but those who do step up find the benefits of leadership far more rewarding than the benefits of rank.