Need some advice

[SueM 10]

As I think many of you know, I am working to try and turn around a troop that was for many years adult led and using the troop method. I am slowly making progress towards getting back to using the patrol method and we basically had our first real patrol campout last weekend so I'm trying to cross that "hurdle" and with each hurdle, naturally there comes resistance to change and arguement. In a nutshell, my question/quandry is: How much time can I allow for the patrols to spend with each other at this point? I am for the moment trying hard to encourage them to stay at their own patrol sites as much as possible so that they can not get used to working together and thinking of themselves as a team and I can't see this happening as easily at this point if they are continually try to join back up as a "troop". I especially have had problems with my ASPL, who will not separate himself from a particular patrol and was basically being very defiant about it and stayed with them ALL weekend, despite my having several conversations with him about it. He was never around when I needed to talk to him, and when we include him in the discussion about specific issues, he basically acts as a spy and carries things back to the other boys that perhaps we don't want them to be privey to. He ended up the evening trying to use the "threat" of going to another troop to try and make me feel guilty (I suppose...it didn't work!) I talked to his father then when he came to pick the scout up.

 

Anyway..I would really like to hear some views from everyone on the best way to handle/address this issue. One of the things that we did talk about was having a common area outside of their patrol sites so that they could get together there in their free time. Other suggestions??

 

Sue M.

 

[EagleInKY 14]

Sue - I feel your pain.

 

On this campout, were the boys busy? Or were they just "Hanging out"? If the boys aren't busy, they're typically going to hang out with their buddies. If this ASPL's buddies are in that patrol, that's where he's going to want to be. That makes perfect sense. After, Scouting is supposed to be fun, and he should have fun hanging out with his friends.

 

Our most successful patrol-based campouts have been where there were lots of things to do, in a patrol setting. For instance, we held a "troop camporee" last fall where the patrols competed against each other in various events. This kept them busy through much of the day. They even had a service project to do and a meal-cooking competition. So nearly every aspect of the day was wrapped up in the patrol setting. And who put on this event? The SPL and ASPL, of course. They didn't have time to socialize, because they were running the show.

 

My point is, if they are busy doing their job, they will probably not be hanging out in the patrols. If they don't have anything to do, they will gravitate toward their friends.

 

As for a common area, we normally have a central "troop area" for the adults and senior boy leaders. But patrols don't hang out there. We run them back to their patrol campsites. (Side note: We don't have enough cook gear for all the patrols to have their own kitchen, so they often have to do their cooking in the central area. But they still cook as patrols and take it back to their campsite.)

 

As for him "being a spy" and taking things back to his patrol buddies, you need to have a heart-to-heart with him about that. If he'd rather be with his buddies, maybe he should step down from ASPL and let someone who wants to do the job have it. Don't let the "I'll move to another troop" threat get to you. You're trying to do a good thing and you will meet some resistence. Heck, if you've read some of my postings lately, I'm having more issues with my assistants than my guys.

[Eagledad 2779]

Boy, sounds like you are doing everything right. That you talked to the scouts dad about his behavior tells me more about you and your style of scouting than anything else you wrote and Im impressed. Most adults need to understand that you are just one member of the families team in raising their son. I was very close to my scouts, but they knew there were no barriers between me and their parents when it came to their performance. We are all in this together.

 

As for your questions, its hard to add to EagleInKy. your are visiualizing a perfect patrol. In reality, what you get is not near as pretty, but stay consistant. Your patrols will grow, you just have to keep them acting as a patrol. Keep the patrol leaders leading the patrols to assembly and activities. Have them hike together, eat together and so on. Try to keep them working together as patrols as much as you can. Eventally they will start to bond and see themselves as a group. But it does take time. I remember once at summer camp, one patrol decided to turn their caps inside out as a patrol. They did this mostly to get a reaction from me, but they were caught off guard by my praise for setting an example of a patrol working together. It will come.

 

As for your ASPL: Remember your main job is behavior and character building. If nothing else, this scout is breaking a lot of scout laws and he needs to at least recognize that. He may be frustrated, but he needs to learn how to deal with his frustrations as a man of character, not a child using tantrums to get his way. Generally when we break laws of behavior, we are only serving ourselves, not the others.

 

Great questions, I hope we are helping.

 

Barry

 

 

[SueM 10]

EagleinKY,

 

We didn't have a whole lot on the schedule for them, but the cub scout pack was going to do their crossover that evening and what we had suggested to the SPL was that each patrol pick a basic scouting skill to teach at their patrol site and then the cubs were going to come in the afternoon and then go from site to site and the boys would put on a demonstration. We only had 3 of our 4 patrols there for the weekend but one did an knife/ax & saw (totin' chip) demonstration, one did fire starting (an abbreviated version since we were under a red flag for burning!) and the other patrol discussed basic first aid, so some of their free time was supposed to be spent setting up their event and reviewing so they could teach everything they needed to. Even during the structured time it was hard to keep them separated. I mentioned to the some of the adults that what I would like to see during a lot of this "free" time was more of a promotion of competitions between patrols..which I hope will still come with time. Anyway...I think that some of my newer adults think that I'm trying to take the troop down some "weird" path or something..they really don't understand the scouting program and what we (I) are aiming towards with the troop. I do understand that they want to be with their buddies, etc. but unfortunately, the "pied pipers" of the group that they want to be with are often exhibiting the most unscoutlike behavior too..One was overheard by another adult to say (with his mother standing right there and she said nothing!) that there was no way he was going to say "Yes Ma'am" to me! (I've been trying to rein in some of the disrespectful behavior and have told them that I expect them to start addressing ALL adults with yes/no Sir/Ma'am) Sometimes I do feel like I am going a bit overboard with my expectations, but then, as a woman, many just do not respect me the same way they do with the male leaders..no matter who they are! I want and NEED to address the disclipline myself because I don't want them to think that I am too weak or afraid to do it myself and that I -need- the men to step in to do it for me.

 

As far as my ASPL is concerned..we are due for elections in a few weeks..I'm assuming that he will not run again, how ever it might backfire on him because his buddies in the patrol who he hangs out with just MAY be elected. I didn't take the threat of him going to another troop seriously..he even tried to threaten to call his mother to come and get him right then and I told him that it wouldn't be necessary because I would call her myself (and I did, but they were not home!) He is a good kid with good leadership potential..when he's not being diverted by the others. He does a good job when he tries..he just does not have the courage to stand up to his friends and call them on things when he needs to.

 

And yes..the advice so far is helpful..I hope more comes. Thanks!!

 

sue m.

 

 

[SueM 10]

Eagledad,

 

Yes, right now, one of my main focuses is on behavior and character development. In the PLC that we had on Monday (one of the first REAL attempts at having one that we've had!!) I had a discussion with the PL's and told them that from now on that if they had a problem in their patrol, that I expected them to work together as a patrol to solve the problem and if they couldn't, to then ask the SPL to try and help them come to a solution, BUT..they were NOT to be running to the other patrols and discussing the problems with them because it only causes issues for everyone. Then I went on to say "Tell me just how many points of the scout law does doing something like this go against?? It's certainly not being trustworthy...loyal...friendly..courteous..kind..cheerful.." and some looked like they might actually be getting the point! Sometimes this is really difficult for me to address and seem objective because a lot of the issues involve my own son, so if I'm calling them on behavior, they think I'm just sticking up for him!! That's another whole topic though...

 

I have just gotten to the point where I'm tired of spending my "hour a week" on "pretend" scouts. I take my "vision" for the troop direction seriously..maybe too seriously for some of the adults who say "we have to remember..they're BOYS..not MEN!" My theory is though that they'll only perform to the minimum level of expectations that I set..and by raising that level higher, then that's where they should naturally follow. If they are old enough and responsible enough to be driving a car, then they should also be expected to start acting like young MEN!!

 

I thank you all again..as you can probably tell, I am somewhat frustrated!!

 

Sue m.

[gwd-scouter 11]

SueM - you and I have communicated a lot together and shared the experience of being female Scoutmasters. From reading your posts it almost sounds like we are both Scoutmasters of the same Troop.

 

Your comment: "Anyway...I think that some of my newer adults think that I'm trying to take the troop down some "weird" path or something..they really don't understand the scouting program and what we (I) are aiming towards with the troop" - this has actually been one of the more difficult obstacles I faced when I stepped up as SM. All of the old-guard ASMs quit fairly early on in my SM tenure and the newer adults seem to understand what we are trying to accomplish with the Troop.

 

And, "My theory is though that they'll only perform to the minimum level of expectations that I set..and by raising that level higher, then that's where they should naturally follow. If they are old enough and responsible enough to be driving a car, then they should also be expected to start acting like young MEN!!"

 

My sentiments exactly. Over the past 15 months I've been raising the bar of expectations ever higher. Many times the guys reach and even exceed the bar. More times they don't. But it is never lowered because of failure. That happened too many times in the past in this Troop.

 

As others have posted to me when I've posted messages about the ups and downs in my troop, keep your chin up and keep up the good work. Focus on the positive progress your Troop is making.

 

[SueM 10]

gwd-scouter,

 

Yes..I've noticed that our troops seem to run parallel and do the same sorts of things about the same time and think it's kind of funny.

 

The adults who were in the troop when I took over were very supportive and generally the new ones who came in after are too, but I still get a feeling that they are not sure if I'm following the proper path. I was on staff at our recent BLT and 2 of my new adults went through, so it gave me an opportunity to really stress certain areas with them that -I- need them to know to help out in the troop setting. I do have a couple of adults who do "get it" though and they are helping back me up when I need it.

 

We had an adult meeting on Monday so we could all try and start getting on the same page hopefully. What I did was to spend a couple of hours on Friday afternoon preparing a written version of my "vision" for the troop and how I want to get there so that they have a better understanding of things. I hate to say it but it has been hard to really sit down and talk with them all together as a group. There was however some discussion from one ASM that he thought that they should be able to have more say in the direction the troop was going. I really think that we are mostly on the same page but our approaches may be different. I do value their opinions and I take them into consideration, but ultimately, it is MY duty to set the direction for the troop and see that we make progress. What I would really like to do though with them is to have them choose a personal goal for themselves within the troop...one that aligns with where I'm trying to go, naturally, and then let them take the lead in accomplishing that. It would give them that sense of having some say in things and also take the load off of me too. I want them to feel and BE part of the team, but I'm the team leader!! This meeting was a start though..i didn't expect to solve all the problems in 45 minutes and we're going to try and schedule one now on a monthly basis.

 

I know that it's one step forward..2 steps back sometimes and I usually get over it pretty quickly. Sometimes I do wonder though "Why am I putting myself through all of this?? Am I really making a difference in any of these boys' lives??" and then of course, all of a sudden something clicks with one of them and you forget about all the frustration for a short time! Thanks for the support..it's always welcomed.

 

Tune in for the further misadventures of Scoutmaster Mom(s) which I'm sure will be appearing in a scouting forum near you in the near future!!!

 

Sue M.

[Kudu 186]

1) If the Patrol Method is being used on a campout, the Patrols are a) Physically separated (100 yards); b) Cooking separately in their own Patrol sites with their own equipment; c) Sleeping separately (not mixing at night); d) Making some activity decisions separately. Other than that, if there is no practical reason for them to remain separated (such as an exciting Patrol Contest, Wide Games, etc.), then what is the downside of them working and playing together as a Troop in the meantime? Making Patrols stay in their Patrol sites for no real, practical reason is the equivalent of sending them to their rooms :-)

 

2) If some Scouts are missing their buddies then maybe it is time to for the Patrols to realign. If Scouts joined (or were assigned to) Patrols while the Troop was still using the "Troop Method" then it previously didn't really matter what Patrol they were in. The PLC should allow them (within reason) to rethink this now that they better understand that Patrols work independently. The best Patrols are natural groupings of friends.

 

3) I may be missing something here, but why is everyone so upset about where the ASPL hangs out? The USA is the the only country in the world that has ASPLs. As far as I know, the last time the BSA re-purposed the position, it was not to help the SPL run campouts. The Patrol Leaders run the show and the SPL merely helps coordinate the activities on which the Patrol Leaders have voted, and perhaps to remind them what they planned :-) If the Patrol Leaders don't bother planning things, then the SPL gets to lead by default, but the Patrol Leaders can always out-vote the SPL. The idea that the SPL and his assistant run the Troop is called the "Troop Method."

 

In the current BSA model, the ASPL is an appointed position and he has no business what-so-ever supervising elected Patrol Leaders or interfering with them in any way. By the way, if the SPL can't make it to a campout, then the Patrol Leaders should decide who is in charge (or if you are using Baden-Powell's methods, then the SM should decide in consultation with the PLC). The ASPL only supervises the positions appointed by the SPL. About the only important function he has to do with camping is making sure that the Troop Quartermasters do their jobs. Otherwise he should stick to making sure that the Historian hasn't neglected any important epochs, that the Librarian's books are stacked neatly, and that the Troop Bugler's bugle is nicely polished :-/

 

Kudu

 

[SueM 10]

Kudu,

 

B & C in #1 are a issue at the moment..boys are either going and eating other patrols food, sometimes without permission, and have been known to not leave anything for the boys in that patrol..they have their own equipment, planned their own menus, etc. and sometimes leaving and wandering from site to site at night and there are other issues too that have been ongoing.

 

As far as #2 goes, If I'd let them, it would end up being a one patrol troop..no matter what patrol they chose to be in in the beginning. Patrols were realigned several years ago to allow them to go where they wanted. It hasn't helped and in many ways has caused MORE issues. Understand that these boys still are new to any kind of "planning" for camping trips (other than some planning for food!) and their view of camping is that there is no other reason to do it other than to play all weekend. They have not gotten to planning a "purpose" for a camping trip..we're just getting to the point of a semi-planned meeting!!

 

I also didn't say that I expected my ASPL to supervise PL, or interfere with them etc. but he also should not eating and sleeping with them as a patrol member, and not doing his duties otherwise because he doesn't want to offend his "patrol" mates by insisting they do their jobs. And yes, his main duty is to oversee and train ther other positions such as the historian, librarian etc. but also on his list of specific duties as per the position description from the current troop leadership training

 

Help leading meetings and activities as called upon by the SPL [how can he do that if he is unavailable to the SPL?]

 

Guiding the troop in the absence of the SPL {Doesn't say that PL's choose in absence of SPL!]

 

Performing tasks assigned by the SPL [again..how can he do that if he is never available?]

 

Function as a member of the PLC.

 

 

I understand that you have a different point of view of things and that's ok..I asked for opinions and I take something away from all of them. Most of us out there in the trenches trying to do the best job that we can with what we have to work with.

 

Sue m.

[SueM 10]

Wanted to add this to the previous post but what happened to the edit function??..it no longer appears on the options? Anyway..

 

Another duty of the ASPL - Set a good example..how is he doing this if he is openly defying me and the other adults in front of the rest of the scouts?

 

Sue M.

[dan 10]

SueM

Sounds like you are doing a great job. I think you need to keep on keeping on! You are getting there, these things take time. Just keep reinforcing what your vision is!

About your vision, have you done Troop Leadership Training for your leaders? Sounds like you have already written your vision, share this with the troop leaders (scouts) and have them write their vision for the troop. The vision they create should be driven from your vision. To get everyone on the same page.

Note I have not seen the new TLT, I am making some assumptions about TLT from posts here and how it relates to NYLT.

 

Some people are going to really dislike this next idea, but, I have seen it work if not done over the top.

Give winners of the patrol competitions a treat, maybe a can of soda to the winners, maybe the adults can do dishes for the winners of the competition.

 

Another idea

Have the PLC plan a campfire during the campout, have each patrol do a song/skit, schedule time during the day for the patrols to plan/practice for the campfire program. Make sure to really give the best song/skit a huge round of applause, whistling, really over the top. Using the patrol name in the process.

 

Another idea

Have the SPL and ASPL camp with the adults (which it sounds like they do). They should be seen sitting in chairs talking to the SM, having a good time, not cooking, cleaning. When they are with the adults make sure that they have time to unwind, discuss the campout. The adults should be seen as waiters and or waitress for the SPL and ASPL. Showing the rest of the troop who really runs the troop. Make them want to spend time in the adult camping spot.

[SueM 10]

dan,

 

Your comments were basically what I was aiming for with the weekend. The SPL had set up their tent in the adult area, away from the patrols and he, the ASPL and the SPL's younger brother (his younger brother is tiny..has health issues and it was a cold weekend so the idea was that the SPL & ASPL could help to keep him warmer at night). I did the adult cooking and planned for them to eat with us..I did not expect them to do any cleanup, etc. we took care of all that. When it came time to eat, the ASPL did not want to eat with us...when it was time for lights out and he was still with the patrol, I went to tell them it was time for lights out (the SPL had already turned in) and they were cooking hamburgers. So I let them finish and clean up. The ASPL then went into the tent with the patrol and I reminded him that his tent was up in the adult area..he basically ignored me until I told him that if he continued to do that I would call his mother to come and get him. Then he spent basically the whole next day with them too. He ate breakfast with us but that was it.

 

Both the SPL & ASPL had gone through the old JLT within the past year and I have also gone through the new version with them as best as I can. I discussed my vision for the troop and the SPL agreed with that vision and is trying to do a good job. He is also in the position though where he still does not have the courage to confront his buddies or take charge. He could not come up with a personal goal for himself to work towards though. The ASPL OTOH chose as his goal to work towards improving uniform standards.

 

The boys did plan a campfire for this weekend too. The Cub scout pack was doing their Webelos crossover so they planned it to go along with that..unfortunately, most of the cubscouters walked away before they could put it on! So we still did it for the troop anyway. This was the first time a specific boy had planned a campfire program too!

 

I do use a lot of "treats" as incentives. When I first took over, as a way of trying to get the boys to remember dates and times, I would question them when we circled up either by just giving them one or the other and then the first person with the correct answer got a piece of candy..They learned pretty quickly and as soon as we'd circle up, they'd all start reciting whatever was on the upcoming schedule! We also do a uniform inspection item each week..the SPL chooses the item and then the ASPL goes around and rewards everyone who has the correct item. I monitor birthdays and give the boys a large candy bar or something like that then to recognize them at the end of the meeting.. We have not yet been able to get into doing much in the way of patrol competitions, so I'll have to give some thought about what we can do about it.

 

I know it will take time to get the "bugs" worked out of things. I had gotten to the point where I was able to step back quite a bit from things but with each hurdle that we cross, it seems like I have to step back into a more directing style for a while and sometimes that means doing things that the boys don't like (like correcting them for unscoutlike behavior!).

 

We are having troop elections again in a couple of weeks and I don't think either boy is planning on running again. It's been kind of overwhelming for the current SPL though he has tried and done a good job.

 

Sue M

 

[Kudu 186]

 

SueM writes:

 

B & C in #1 are a issue at the moment..boys are either going and eating other patrols food...and sometimes leaving and wandering from site to site at night and there are other issues too that have been ongoing.

 

As far as #2 goes, If I'd let them, it would end up being a one patrol troop

 

When you attended Wood Badge, I'm sure someone told you that when you get back to your Troop, go slow! One step at a time! Since you are asking for subjective advice, I would start with keeping them in their Patrol Sites for cooking and sleeping, and making sure that each Scout is (ideally, of course) in a Patrol with his seven best friends. Hillcourt mapped out several ways of doing that, if you are interested. I wouldn't restrict them to their Patrol sites when nothing is planned that really requires being separated from the rest of the Troop.

 

For Patrol Competition ideas, see The Inquiry Net:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/competition.htm

 

A good collection of 84 Wide Games are at:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm

 

42 Night Scouting Games are at:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/night/index.htm

 

It sounds like discipline is a problem. Discipline is not discussed very often outside of Safe Swim Defense, but the Patrol Method does not work without it. Are the other adults on board with the Patrol Method? It sounds basic, but many adults are hostile to the idea, either openly or secretly.

 

ASPL...Guiding the troop in the absence of the SPL {Doesn't say that PL's choose in absence of SPL!]

 

Yeah, my bad! My comments on ASPLs belong in a "What's Wrong with the Eight Methods" discussion.

 

It has been so long since our Troop used ASPLs that I had forgotten that the BSA actually puts a boy-appointed-boy over the Patrol Leaders. It is worth mentioning in passing that much of the post-1972 BSA program is geared toward the Troop Method, so problems with the Patrol Method are in part institutional, and not always the Scouters' fault :-)

 

Prior to 1972, the SPL was appointed by the Patrol Leaders (not by a "Troop election") so he knew his place.

 

The position of ASPL was invented in 1959. It was only used in American super-Troops that exceeded Baden-Powell's recommended size and were too big for one SPL to handle. Since then, the ASPL's position on the Troop flow-chart has changed with almost every edition of the Scoutmaster's Handbook.

 

The idea that every Troop needs an ASPL is really a baby of the 1972 "Leadership Development" Method. It is a "Position of Responsibility" looking for a legitimate function. In a small Troop, if a Scout is responsible, then the Patrol Method is much better served by him serving as a Patrol Leader, or as one of several Troop Quartermasters.

 

On the other hand, if a Scout is not responsible and serves as an ASPL then you have the situation that you have now! A bad ASPL is a waste of time better spent on the SPL and the Patrol Leaders.

 

I think this is very common when no Scout would ever vote the SPL's irresponsible buddy into power :-/

 

Kudu

 

 

[SueM 10]

Kudu,

 

Yes, disclipline is an issue...has been ever since I been in the troop and well before I took over as SM...the previous scoutmaster pretty much let them do and say what they wanted without much in the way of disclipline, unless it was a major thing and then it was pretty much still just a slap on the wrist. I have started to try to rein them in and expect more scoutlike behavior and they don't like it. I don't think it's too much to ask for simple respectful behavior, both towards each other and the adult leaders. It's been especially hard for me as when I took over, some of the boys did not especially agree with a woman as scoutmaster..but when none of the men were willing to step up to do it..I just said "learn to deal with it!!"...I still feel sometimes like they are trying to find ways to see if they can intimidate me or drive me away.

 

I don't think I have been pushing things too quickly. I've been working to get to the point we are for 18 months now and I have been basically just letting them signal me along the way as to when they were ready to move to the 'next step'...which at this point was doing patrol camping. I'm assuming it will take at minimum 2-3 years to get the troop turned around and functioning well. Most of the adults say they agree with where I am trying to head..they may not all agree with my plan on how to get there at the but we're working on that.

 

thank you for the links for games and competitions. I'll have to take a look at them and perhaps print them out to put with my other camping materials. (games, skits, etc).

 

sue m.

[Beavah 205]

It's hard to comment on these things by remote, eh? And hard to tell how much of your description is just healthy "venting."

 

First, good job in tryin' to take your troop to higher expectations. Ultimately, that will pay off for you and the kids. To help you on your way, here are a few more thoughts to consider.

 

A few thoughts:

 

1) You threatened (several times), talked to, called out, argued with, etc. the ASPL several times. Don't do dat! Boys learn more and better by simple consequences than by lots of words. Choose the consequence, and apply it fairly and without a lot of yadda yadda.

 

2) Off the cuff, it sounds like you're runnin' low on "social capital" with both the boys and the parents. You might not think you're goin' too fast, but they might.

 

For every "push" you make - for every "tough thing" you ask them to do, are they getting at least 4 or 5 good things? Not candy, but real rewards - your attention, your praise, your confidence, the experience of success with a challenge, the experience of watching their kid succeed, etc.

 

If not, slow down. Better to have them (parents & youth) feel and experience success in some things, then feel "pushed" on a lot of things.

 

3) Who are your best guys? Da ones who are active, and helpful, and buyin' in. They need to become your leaders, and you need to make that happen by doin' a special campout with them... something very cool and very fun, but that also allows you to do TLT with dem, eh? A chance to build relationships and positive "social capital."

 

4) Follow Kudu's advice. Bein' in patrols should be "natural" rather than "forced." If you find you need to do patrol method by raw adult authority then you're really just doin' another form of troop method, eh? Make it so bein' in a patrol is natural. And if it isn't natural, then don't sweat it if they're not in their patrol. That's just bein' mentally awake on their part - knowing when something makes sense and when it doesn't.

 

5) I don't think patrol method really takes off until there's competition. I also don't think you need their permission to start competition. I don't mean settin' up a contest.

 

There's an old story about a plant manager who had a plant that didn't produce well. At the end of the day shift, they had made 6 widgets, so he just came in and chalked a huge "6" on the floor. The night shift asked what the "6" was all about, and heard that was the day shift's production. The next mornin', the "6" had been erased and replaced with a "7" by the night shift. That jerked the chain of the day shift guys, who thought the night shift was bein' uppity, so they worked extra hard and replaced it with a "9"... and on and on... within weeks, they were the most productive plant in the company.

 

Just bring along a whiteboard, hang it up, and mark points for things (best breakfast, ready on time for hike, winning capture the flag, etc.). As soon as there are points or other comparison between patrols, boys' natural competitive streak will take over. At the end of the campout, and at the end of 6 months or so, a prize/recognition is OK. Keep it somethin' that's mostly braggin' rights, though, rather than a special event/food/etc.

 

6) Listen to da Kentucky Eagle. Up the challenge of your campouts and keep 'em movin', so there's no time for you or for them to spend on da little stuff.

 

And keep on keepin' on!