Boy-Led - It ain't as easy as it sounds!

[EagleInKY 14]

I apologize for the long post, but this is a story about an otherwise great weekend that was tarnished by well-meaning adults that don't understand what boy-leadership is about.

 

Our relatively young troop (3 years) is slowly growing into the type of troop I believe any true scouter would be proud to be associated with. In the past year, boy leadership has grown to the point that at times I go to a troop meeting not even knowing what the PLC has in store (I'm the SM). We've had several campouts and activities where I didn't know the plan until a few days before when I consulted the SPL. At PLC meetings I sit in the corner and stay quiet as I can be. These days it's been fun to be the SM.

 

This weekend we had a little bump in the road. And, I'm afraid I didn't handle it as well as I should have. We had a cabin overnighter. Going into it I knew it was not going to be your traditional patrol-system campout. All of the boys were in one big room and the adults were in a different one (YP guildelines). With limited kitchen space the PLC decided it best to cook "troop style". Given the circumstances, I was agreeable to this as a noted exception. (Actually we had numerous exceptions in this campout, including boys bringing electronic games and soda on the menu). But I digress....

 

I walked in Saturday afternoon to find dinner almost done (by adults). The boys were scattered hither and yon. Some were playing, some were working on advancement, others were trying to wrap up some MB work with a counselor. All okay things. But I was troubled by the fact that the ASMs decided to cook dinner. "We were hungry and thought the boys deserved a break". Okay, I thought, give the guys a break "this time". I made a point to the boys that this was "the one and only time" we'll cook for you...

 

This morning, you guessed it. Breakfast was cooked (at least partially) by the adults. Cooks were sent down, but they didn't cook enough, so the adults jumped in and started cooking more. Oh well, a learning for next time, I thought.

 

Meanwhile, I take a shower. I've got to leave early to be at church and am taking my son(outgoing SPL) with me. We have to leave a couple of hours before everyone else. I come out of the room and I hear the sound of disgruntled boys coming from their room. I popped in to see what was up. The PLC was upset. "They're making us go to the museum". They told me. I asked "who is?". They said "Mr. A & Mr. B". Two ASMs with good intentions, but are the ones that always seem to take over if left to their own devices. You guessed it, these are the same two that cooked the meals.

 

I go down and Mr. A is in the kitchen. I pulled him aside and told him he had a mutiny on his hands and that he needs to leave those decisions up to the PLC. "We took a vote and the majority wants to go", he told me. I told him that he needed to back off and let the PLC decide. I pulled the ASPL (who is becoming SPL next week) and the PLs together and tell them they need to decide what to do. Meanwhile, Mr. B is working with some scouts on advancement stuff, so I left him alone.

 

I go back upstairs to finish getting ready to leave. When I come back downstairs, Mr. B is cleaning the dishes (yep, no kidding). The soon-to-be-SPL walks up to him and says "Mr. B, Mr. J (that's me) told me that the PLC needs to decide what to do this morning." Mr B steps back and says "we took a vote!". I saw what was about to happen and walked over. I explained to him that it was a PLC decision. He said "So they just ignore that the majority wants to go" (it was a small majority, by the way). I explained that it was not a democracy, and the PLC should make the decision. Taking a vote is certainly a fair way to decide, but it's up to them, not him, to decide. We had words, and he was visibly upset with me, as I with him.

 

I had to leave shortly thereafter. We talked a little more and he calmed down. He felt I shouldn't have stepped in and overrode him. I tried to explain that I wouldn't have overrode anything if they had just let the PLC decide.

 

I found out tonight that they ended up going anyway. I was told that they let the ASPL decide, but I know he was feeling the pressure of the moment.

 

 

 

Bottom line is - I'm a little frustrated. Every time something likes this happens, I feel it takes twice as long to rebuild the momentum. I don't know if I'm looking for advice or just venting. But if you have any, I'll gladly take it.

[t158sm 10]

Becoming boy led isn't easy. The general estimate is this is a process that takes 5-6 years to implement. When our troop first started toward boy led as a serious effort, we all had a long discussion. The things that I mentioned were:

The troop leaders that you have voted in will make the decisions. By voting in them you are placing your trust in them and they have a responsibility to you to uphold that trust.

There are times when mistakes will be made and the troop will fall flat on its face. Neither I nor any other adult leaders will stop this from happening unless health, safety or other serious matter occur.

There are times when we will be mad as all heck at each other but we are all Scouts and friends and we will not stay mad at each other for long. (Yes, sometimes I can be a bit of an idealist.)

The PLC will meet afterward of any activity and discuss what went well and not so well about the activity.

 

I keep telling myself "baby steps." It's not going to happen overnight.

 

One question I gather from your post, Was there a plan made out by the PLC for the trip? If so, was this plan followed?

As much as it is tempting to slide back to the troop method "just this little bit." or "just this once." It usually brings more harm than good to the growth of the patrol method. (From my experience.)

As for your ASM, I would tell him that I was sorry there was a misunderstanding, shake his hand and offer to talk it over. Don't let hurt feelings get in the way of the good that all of you are accomplishing.

Keep up the good work.

[Eagledad 2777]

Wow, Been there and done that, threw away the T-shirt. It's hard to imagine that we adults don't think a like. It's even harder to understand that the adults don't think like me. Later on when the emotional cloud burns away, you will see that it's not really set back because the boys got it. The adults probably never did. But!, the boys got it.

 

I have always spouted that our every step forward was preceeded with three steps back. In fact I sometimes wonder if our struggles were by design so that I could later get on some national forum and start out with "been there and done that".

 

If I had to do it all over again, I would only do one thing different and that is spend more time with the adults than the scouts. In fact, most who have read my stuff long enough know that I have said several times that scoutmastering is 51 % working with the adults.

 

I have always felt EagleInKY that you have a talent and gift for scoutmastering. From the begining you have lead a troop most scoutmasters would be proud of. You can't have maturity without growth and you can have growth without growing pains. What you are going through is normal for a visonary person like you because while you have a clear picture of the goal, the others haven't quite got there yet. And they won't unless paint the picture over and over. Imagine someone leading you into a dark cave saying, trust me, I know where we are going.

 

You are very good at what you are doing. Your scouts are lucky to have you. All that being said, you still have a lot of work. Maybe this is more of a red flag that while you have given the boys the independence they need to grow, you haven't given them enough to give you time with the adults.

 

Be and artist, color inside the lines for the adults so they see your picture. Hold their hands and pull them through your thoughts and ideas. Make them partners in your vision and not just passengers along for the ride.

 

Trust me in that I know how hard it is to try an idea hopeing it works with the scouts and not really pulling the adults along because of the time involved. Its hard enough putting the boys through it, but to pull the adults as well? I'm not saying the adults will buy-in as you and everything will change. In fact I think it will be slow. But at least they might be more willing to give it a try.

 

Now all this is not to say that you are the problem. We all know by your post and excellent guidence in the forum that you are talented and a natural for the job. But if I had to do it over again, I would have spent more time teaching aims, methods, boy run, and my VISION for each boy in the troop. Over and over again I would be saying it to the point that the adults were doing impressions of me behind my back.

 

It's time for a meeting with the adults. Lay it all out, your dream, your ideas to progress forward, your fears and you frustrations. The boys are doing there job, now it's time for the adults to do theirs. Show them the growth and show them why. Make them get it. You have one of the best boy run programs in your district, not its time they understand why.

 

You are on the edge of the best scouting a SM can have. It's when the troop gets into the older boy program that the scouts grow by leaps and bounds. Mostly because they aren't boys anymore, they are men trying to be men. The next year will be great and the next after than will be fantastic. You will be amazed and you and your adults will feel very blessed. So get the adults to hold on a little longer. If they are to reap the bounty that is about to be offered, they must to hold course a little longer.

 

As for you, let it rest a few days. Give enough time for the emotions to fade away so you can see the reality of the weekend. It wasn't really all that bad, it was just a little red flag showing a couple bugs in the program. Just a little fine tuning really.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[SueM 10]

EagleinKY

 

I think one of the greatest challenges that a SM faces is not in the boys themselves, but with the other Adult leaders and trying to keep them from bailing the boys out of tough spots, etc. Like you, I get SO frustrated sometimes because some of my adult leaders are not on the same brain wave as I am and they just arbitrarily make decisions without consulting with me...just stand up and make announcement to the boys that are contrary to things that I have in mind for troop progress and many times the things that they do or say throw a real monkey wrench into things! It's not that I'm on a power trip or anything but it's MY responsibility as the SM to see that we're following (or at least building towards trying to follow) the program as best as we can...I can't do that when they continually overstep me in the chain of command (so to speak). You want and NEED it to be a team effort, but they have to remember that YOU are the Captain of the team too and sometimes I do think that you occasionally do have to "pull rank" to remind them to stay with the program.

 

You know...this gives me some more things to stress with adults next weekend when I'm on Staff at BLT!!! This is my 2nd year on staff and I'm the SPL for the course this year, but I want to say that I think I'm going to do a MUCH better job this year..both because I have another year under my belt as a SM and all the frustrations that have comes with that, but also due to what I have learned learned from YOU ALL on this forum in the past 6 months or so! I have 3 or 4 of my own adult leaders coming to training and I know a lot more now about what I need for them to know, so you'd better believe that I am going to stress many of these points with the whole group!!

 

Sue M

[EagleInKY 14]

t153 - Good question about the plan. That was one of the main topics of discussion with my SPL (my son) on the way back from camp. He and the ASPL had a plan, but it was up in their heads. The same way with a duty roster. They were, in essence, winging it. I explained to him that people - especially adults - when they are not presented with a plan, will seek to fill it with their own ideas. This will be a bit of coaching I'll give the PLC at their next meeting. Published (as in mounted in clear view) schedules and duty rosters are a great preventative step from this type of situation.

[scoutingagain 20]

EagleinKY,

 

I had to check my brain to make sure I hadn't written you post. I pretty sure I didn't, but am currently going through much of the same thing. After 3 years of slowly help the troop become more boy led, or I should say, properly boy led, (we had a period of boy-led-into-the-ground), I now am dealing with a set of parents from our new scouts that want take us back toward more adult intervention. They like to cook and plan activities. So far I have managed to avoid the kind of confrontation you described but have come close.

 

I don't know that I have answers. For the Dad that likes to cook, I generally have asked him to cook for the adults or occaisionally ask if he would cook a Troop desert. He is really a nice guy that enjoys cooking for others. When I am on an outing I can usually control or at least direct his effort so that he doesn't completely take over for the scouts. However, I find when I'm not there, he usually ends up doing most of the cooking. He is in fact really good at it and given a choice of a meal from Mr. C or one they cook themselves, the scouts will take up the offer of Mr. C.

 

As far as outing gos, I've tried to get the adults that have specific ideas to present them to the PLC with the understanding the PLC gets to decide what they want to do. This has worked out better. So far the PLC has in fact decided on some(not all) of the suggestions from the new parents and this has led to trying some new outings.

 

Anyway, you're not alone and hang in there. Feel free to vent any time. BTW, I find cabin camps one of the most non-productive, camping venues I can think of. As you pointed out, they are not set up to support patrols and frankly I generally don't like them.

 

SA

[SueM 10]

Scoutingagain

 

Put Dad to work teaching the Cooking MB..with the understanding that he will only "coach" them in how to cook and not do it for them!

 

Sue M.

[scoutingagain 20]

SueM,

 

We've already registered him as a counselor and I'm sure it will happen in due time. He doesn't quite understand why the adults can't just schedule him to teach the MB at Troop Meetings and force the scouts to come. He was the Webelos den leader and was used to scheduling the den activities that he liked, when he liked to do them and is adjusting to having to run his ideas by a 16 year old SPL and several younger PLs!

 

That said, I think he'll get it. He's very enthusiastic and is willing to take all the training he can get. He did much to help turn around the Cub Pack he came from and I think eventually will be a great asset to the Troop.

 

 

 

SA

[t158sm 10]

That's good about their plan, but you were right, it should have been written down. If the plan and duty roster are printed and distributed to each member of the PLC and each of the adults that takes away much of the chance for unwanted divergence.

Eagledad is right - spend the time guiding the other adults as well. Let them in on the vision you see too. I'm quite fortunate in that the three ASMs I have pretty well understand what we are all trying to work toward. That is really a blessing for the troop.

[SemperParatus 1]

Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors.

 

I often don't realize all of the character building opportunities that scouting presents to me as an adult leader, until it is too late and the moment is past.

 

John, my friend, I have complete faith in you that you will work this out in a reasoned and compassionate manner, and find the way to use these events to make your troop and scouting relationships stronger than ever before.

[EagleInKY 14]

I appreciate the kind words by all of you. Things are fine with my ASMs. We've seen each other at Scouts Monday night and B&G Tuesday night and all is well. Nothing more said, although I'm sure we'll have some good discussion at our next SM pow wow. I also plan to discuss the topic further with the PLC to make sure the learnings stick.

 

Of course, as soon as we had this issue put to bed, we discovered an issue with our Webelos leader. It became quite clear we're all back on the same team again. But, I don't think I can handle two ventings in a week, so I may table it for a few days.

 

Thanks for letting me vent.