new scout patrol or not?

[baden 10]

At our Troop Committee meeting last night there was discussion about what to do with the Webelos that are transitioning to our Troop next week. We are a small Troop with 16 boys, 12-13 active, in 2 patrols. We are greeting 7 or 8 Webelos. I assumed we would have them form a new patrol under the guidance of a Troop Guide and an ASM. Some on the committee are for scattering them in the 2 existing patrols to bolster their numbers. We have one patrol of 7 that are all Scout, Tenderfoot, and 2nd Class. All 11 and 12. The other patrol is 5 boys all 1st Class and Star 12 to 14. The rest of the boys are Life and Eagle and have a Patrol in name only as two are Eagles and fairly inactive (both 17) and the other 2 are Life and concerned with making Eagle (both 16). What say the group?

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I would make it a new Scout patrol with a troop guide. This is the reccommended BSA approach which may help/hurt the idea dependingg on the nature of your Committee.

 

How old a troop are you and what has your retention been like in the past?

[SR540Beaver 116]

Make them a NSP with one of those 17 year old Eagles or one of the 16 year old Lifes as their Troop Guide. That would be a good way to re-involve them if they are willing to make the commitment. Also, assign an ASM to oversee the whole thing. Consider suggesting to the PLC that they devise a plan to reallign the patrols when the NSP is 6 to 9 months old. Create 3 new mixed age patrols. That way, the patrol can have longivity and history instead of being "in name only" because they are all the same age and have either become inactive or aged out. what happens to the 16 or 17 year old who still wants to be involved and all of his buddies are still registered, but never show up? Is he a patrol of 1 even thought there might be 5 or 6 names on the roster. If you have mixed age patrols, this never happens and the NSP can be integrated in when ready and keep bringing new blood into the patrol.

[Beavah 205]

I like my fellow Beavah's reply. I'd second that notion. But I think you need to consider a few things before you commit.

 

Do you have an ASM who is really good with these younger "wild thangs?" An ASM/NSP requires a particular sort of personality. Do you have two older boys committed to being Troop Guides, who are also good with younger boys (remember, on any given weekend, one of 'em's goin to be sick, or on a date, or...)?

 

What does your troop "feel like?" Is there an ethic of older boys lookin' out for and takin' care of the younger guys, or not?

 

What's up with the webelos? Do they all know each other? Are there any "personality issues?" Are they pretty tough/independent, or shy/scared/timid?

 

What you do short term should take these things into account.

 

 

 

 

[EagleInKY 14]

I agree with the approach the tree-chewing bunch have given you. I didn't know there were so many wise Beavers out there.

 

Not to be too confrontational, but your troop committee needs to understand that it is your job (I assume you are SM) to determine how to run the program. Actually, to be more correct, it is the PLCs job, under your guidance, to determine how to run the program. You are planning to run it according to the BSA guidelines and they really have little to no say in the "operations" side of the program. They are the "ways and means" to carrying out the program, not the administrators of program.

[watercub 10]

I concur with all of the above, and it's what we use. I use two TG's - it ensures we have one at every meeting. Man, I agree with Beavers? Not too bad for this sluggish Bear.

[ronvo 10]

OK then WOODCHUCKS

 

what about our situation very similar

 

Number of older Eagale Scouts

 

5-7 Active Scouts ages 12-14 in One Patrol

 

We have at least 10 new Webelos crossing over.

 

New Scout Patrol or Make up Mixed Patrols with new and 12-14 y.o. Scouts?

 

IF NSP - one with 10 boys or 2 with 5 each?

 

 

In spite of my opening I do respect your toothy opinions! (wish I could make a buck tooth smiley!)

 

ronvo

 

 

 

[Mike F 10]

Neither of the two troops I actively serve uses NSP.

One troop is very large - over 100. They used to use NSPs and found retention went up after immediately integrating them into existing patrols starting about 3 years ago.

The other smaller troop (~20) has never used NSPs and has what Beavah referred to as a great ethic of older boys lookin' out for and takin' care of the younger guys. Retention in that troop has been 100% for the last 3 year groups - simply amazing. I think it's because the older guys really do understand the future of the troop depends on those guys, so they take care of them like little brothers.

 

We don't use Troop Guides, since no NSP. Instead, we make more extensive use of Instructors. At last night's PLC, one major business matter was looking over the younger guy's advancement records (which each PL keeps in his notebook) to determine what we could help them accomplish on campout this weekend. PLs will be handling some within the patrols. Instructors will be setting up and conducting a couple of classes on Sat afternoon. We do have an ASM that monitors and coaches this process. Seems to be working well.

 

Cautionary note: When Troop 1 moved from single-age patrols to mixed-age patrols, it took a lot of effort to help shift the older boy's attitudes. In the meantime, ASMs stayed very involved to keep the guys moving forward. After a year or so, the guys were taking ownership and it took off. Now they're scheduling patrol meetings on their own to work on their guy's advancement for things they don't get done at meetings or campouts. It's really exciting to watch!

 

Since this is all contrary to BSA's recommendations, this may not work best for you and your mix of scouts and adults. In other words, your milage may vary. But it's working well for us and I'm glad.

 

Ronvo - you might have a meeting with your existing active scouts to talk about this. Discuss some of the pros/cons. Get their feelings about it all. Are they willing to take on some brand new green guys so their patrol would grow immediately or would they rather be left alone, letting a Troop Guide take care of them? After the group discussion, let the PLC decide. (Give them input and ownership.)

 

Good luck!

 

-mike

[ronvo 10]

Thanks Mike.

 

Since I have not been involved in a trrop since my youth, whne did the NSP thing start?

 

Now not to question the wisdom of those at Natioanl but it seems that the NSP just isn't the right way to go for a number of reasons. Again I have not been involved in a troop so have never seen th NSP in action. However here is a list of cons I came up with.

 

1) Who is suppose to be the Patrol Leader. Shouldn't that be a job for an experienced scout?

 

2) Is not part of our program to help boys mature by having them help/teach younger scouts.

 

3) As I understand it after about a year the NSP is broken up and the boys are placed in "regular" patrols. So you break up a team that may have developed an identity and ability to work together with spirit and maybe even the beiginnings of traditions and place them into a foreign group?

 

4) Might not some WEBELOS den leader who come to Scouts with their son not be register as leaders and stiil feel ownership of this group? Might not this lead to a) an Webelos Patrol run by an adult or b) conflict between troop and new volunteer?

 

Just a few things i see a potential problems.

 

Waiting to be corrected!

 

ronvo

 

[EagleInKY 14]

I'm not sure when it started, I think it was around 1990.

 

Your questions:

1) Who is suppose to be the Patrol Leader. Shouldn't that be a job for an experienced scout? Troops take different approaches. We use the Woodbadge approach of rotating the job on a monthly basis. The Troop Guide is "joined at their hip" and serves as that experienced scout you ask about. In my experience, the Troop Guide operates almost like the PL and the rotating PL is more ceremonial. But it gives the boys a sense of responsibility.

 

2) Is not part of our program to help boys mature by having them help/teach younger scouts. Correct, and that shouldn't change. We still use our older scouts to teach the younger ones. Some of the older experienced scouts serve as Instructors and are responsible for certain topics. We also have a "Tenderfoot Weekend" campout where the 2nd and 3rd year scouts teach basic skills to the new scouts.

 

3) As I understand it after about a year the NSP is broken up and the boys are placed in "regular" patrols. So you break up a team that may have developed an identity and ability to work together with spirit and maybe even the beiginnings of traditions and place them into a foreign group? Unless you have a troop that works almost autonomously in patrols, there is a lot of interaction between the scouts. They'll make new friends on campouts, at troop meetings, fundraisers, etc. We do a total reshuffle which allows for all ages to get mixed together. You'd be surprised how the new guys will break up into smaller groups and attach with some older guys.

 

4) Might not some WEBELOS den leader who come to Scouts with their son not be register as leaders and stiil feel ownership of this group? Might not this lead to a) an Webelos Patrol run by an adult or b) conflict between troop and new volunteer? I find this to definitely be a challenge. The Webelos Leader, who is often asked to be the ASM of the NSP is often ill-prepared for the boy-led model. This year we decided before anything happened that we would have an experienced SM work with the NSP. If the Webelos Leader wanted to become an ASM, we were going to partner him up with them.