Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Mike F

Patrol camping - Scouts only - where?

Recommended Posts

The purpose of this thread is to get some ideas from troops that have Patrols who go camping without adults. If you want to debate whether this is smart, conditions to approve such an event, etc., please check out the other threads on this topic.

 

Specific question:

Where do your patrols go on their solo campouts?

(BSA property only, state parks, national forest, BLM land, private farm/ranch land??)

 

Thanks in advance! -mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BSA properties, State, and National parks all require that youth be under the supervision of adults. Private land is really your only choice for overnight stays. Patrol day activities on the the other hand are far more flexible.

 

Bob White

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Bob.

That's what I figured, but some others had made references to the others and I wanted to clarify.

 

For those that use private land, would you please describe your specific situation? I'm especially interested in proximity to help and the ways your guys might summon assistance.

For example, you might tell me about a patrol campsite on a farm in wooded area near creek with a farm house about 1.5 miles away and the guys have a cell phone to use for check-ins/emergencies.

Real examples from you will help us paint a clearer picture for adults who say it can't be done.

 

Thanks! -mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait a minute here, BSA policies outline a procedure by which Patrol's can go on outings by themselves, but if a patrol wants to go on such an outing, the BSA says Not In My Back Yard? Is that right?

 

Bob, I understand you to say a patrol cannot go on a patrol outing on BSA property even though BSA policies says patrol outings without adult supervision is OK ?

 

And that provate property is the only option? So, I own 5 acres, I have a nice secluded spot for a patrol campout. The patrol comes and camps and due to unforeseen events a scout lossess his life. Wouldnt have mattered if an adult was there, its an acident, pure and simple. The scouts family sues me for allowing the patrol to camp on my property knowing they had no direct adult supervision. I say it was an accident and they say if the BSA allows non-adult supervised patrol outings, why do they not allow such events on their own property and I think I am sunk.

 

Do I understand this correctly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OGE,

I am in no way speaking for Bob, but yes you are sunk. And if that would happen, watch the BSA change it's policy ASAP!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OGE,

Why would you assume you are sunk, did you contribute in some way to the scout's accident? Did you violate some safety policy of the BSA. Were you negligent in some way as either the property owner or the scout leader?

 

As the Scout leader you did the right thing, you followed the program and it's rules. The BSA cannot keep anyone from sueing you, but they will provide your legal defense at no charge and should you you be found liable in any way the BSA will pay all court cost and fines against you. So you have no reason to think you are sunk. Patrols have gone camping without adults for almost 100 years. Somehow I do not see them altering the program just because one of your scouts has an accident.

 

Do not be swayed from utilizing the entire program by leaders who never have.

 

If you want to get complete results you have to give scouts complete responsibility

Lord Robert Stephenson Baden-Powell

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I didnt explain myself very well. Let me try this again. Lets say I am a private land-owner. I have a couple acres of land and my friend from church asks if his sons patrol can camp on my land without adult supervision. I say, can scouts do that, because I am not aware of scouting policy. I am told scouts can and say sure, that'll be fine. So, a scout drowns. And I as a land owner is sued by the parents of the drowned scout as being irresponsible for allowing unsupervised minors to be on my property. In court the drowned scouts parents lawyer asks me why I would allow scouts to camp unsupervised on my property when the BSA itself doesnt allow unupservised scouts to be on its property. Whether I as the land owner did anything right or wrong I would feel mighty betrayed that the BSA encourages private land owners to do something itself will not sanction.

I realize anyone can sue anyone else for just about anything. And the parents suit may be dismissed as having no merit, but why should I allow boy scouts to do something on my property that BSA wont allow on its own property

 

Thats my confusion, if BSA wants patrol outings, why cant they be done on BSA proprty?

 

Actually I want to follow the program. Patrol Outings are part of the program. They apparently are also not allowed on BSA property, thats confusing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How did the scout drown? As the SM did you know that the land had a body of water. Were the scouts trained in the Safe Swim Defense Plan, which requires adult supervision for all water activities? Was the patrol mature enough to be allowed to camp near water? Did the scout leader and the land owner inform the scouts of any restrictions for using the property such as "stay out of the water"?

 

If, as the Scoutmaster, you feel the property is inappropriate for the activity you can have the patrols find a new location or require that two adults camp nearby as a safety device.

 

Rather than not use the full program for fear of what could happen, why not plan ahead and be prepared to control or remove the hazards that you see as a problem?

 

Scout Camps like other council and district functions are designed to sertve Packs, Troops and crews. All of which are lead by adults. But why not have two adults camp in a nearby site?

 

Not having BSA camps available to patrols without adults is not a big deal. There are far more potenial camping opportunities on privatre land than there are scout camps in a council, plus in many councils the camps are several hours away.

 

Let's not be "the glass is half empty" kind of leaders, we have enough of those already. Don't worry about where the scouts can go. That's their job to arrange. Our task is to get them skilled enough to be capable of patrol activities when the opportunity and the interest arises.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok Bob, this is my last attempt, I have no wish to argue with you.

 

Why does the BSA promote something that is not allowed on its own property?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think OGE is right on this one.... not trying to start a large arguement or anything but....

 

why should they support it on other's property, but not their own??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OGE

 

First the patrol method and patrol activities existed years before scout camps existed.

Second, Council scout camps have been around for decades and patrols haven't needed to go camping there.

 

It just one location OGE, don't let this be a sticking point. I have never met a patrol that didn't go on patrol activities because they had nowhere to go. They didn't do them because either the scoutmaster said they couldn't or never told them it was possible.

 

The hurdle for us to focus on is preparing the scouts to be able to act independently, the patrols will figure out places to go, just wait and see. As a scout we had 8 patrols and we all went on patrol outings, the SM never had to find a place for us and we never even asked about scout camp.

 

Bob White

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"They didn't do them because either the scoutmaster said they couldn't or never told them it was possible."

 

How about they are just too apathetic to do them? Our Scoutmaster and the ASMs are always trying to get our Scouts to do Patrol outings of any sort but they just plain won't.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"How about they are just too apathetic to do them?"

 

That is the pessimism of unhappy adults not the nature of children who are scout age.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"That is the pessimism of unhappy adults not the nature of children who are scout age."

 

Not a true statement. You know the saying, you can lead a Scout to patrol outings but you can't make them go!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...