How does Urban vs Suburban living effect scouting???

[Basementdweller 608]

Question posed...

 

thoughts.....

 

 

 

[Sentinel947 1205]

I'll play this game. Leggo!

 

AS AN AVERAGE, Suburban troops probably have more MONEY.

AS AN AVERAGE, Suburban troops probably have a wider pool of potential Scouts and Scouting families to draw on.

 

Suburban troops probably have an easier time getting to camping places, since they aren't smack in the middle of a city.

 

 

[Basementdweller 608]

Suburban Family structure......

 

 

More two parent house holds....much higher potential for one stay at home parent. Scout may or may not have siblings.

 

 

Urban Poor Family Structure

 

Most likely Single Parent, be it mom, dad, grandparent, aunt or uncle. Bio Dad is generally a non-participant in scouts life. Families are generally high in number, 3 or 4 children.

[packsaddle 753]

There may be other parallels to this as well. I see similar comparisons in the education realm. I'm with Moosetracker in this sense. Many of us seem so protective of fertilized eggs, but once they're born society just seems to turn away.

 

I'd guess that there's another layer to this as well...that of the rural society. There you probably have lower economic status as well but I'm not sure about how family structure compares and some of the other factors. On the other hand, there's no doubt in my mind that access to the woods is easier for the rural folks than for suburbia and much more so than for urban populations. There may also be greater latent 'life' knowledge about the woods as well. We really do live in very different worlds don't we?(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[ScoutNut 147]

It is interesting to me how you seem to automatically assume that suburban = wealthy, and urban = poor.

 

That is just not the case at all.

 

Why not just frame your question in the parameters you are actually talking about?

 

Poor vs wealthy.

 

Inner-city vs everyone else.

 

For urban vs suburban there are just to many variables to make a decent comparison.

(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

[Jeffrey H 25]

AS a youth, I did scouting in a big town (about 25,000) but we were neither "Urban" or "Suburban." Income levels were low-middle to middle income. One of the great advantanges of our geography is we could get out to the country quickly and to our weekend campsite in 15 to 30 minutes and most of the time this was on private land with owner permission. The cost of securing campsites was free and transportation costs were low. The only real cost for us was the cost of food. It was great! Because of our situation, the great outdoors doing "primitive camping" (sorry, no flush toilets and running water) could be enjoyed by scouts of all economic levels because we had a low cost program that was alot of fun.

 

As for urban and suburban? In our metro area, one can live in the suburbs and be poor. We have some urban areas that are quite wealthy. Whether it's urban or sururban, opportunities to get to the great outdoors and secure campsites nearby (within 30 mintues) that have no city noise or light pollution is impossible. Today, our Pack usually has to drive at least 90 minutes to truly get away from it all. The farther the drive, the more likely we have fallout in participation. This effects scouting for the outdoor experience. Our Council does have an "in-town" council camp that is quite pretty and we do attend occassionally but it's not the same when you can hear freeway traffic during the middle of the night.

[Basementdweller 608]

I did frame my response with urban poor...

 

Some areas of our city are experiencing a rebirth as such...generification is the term I think. The poor are being displaced by the rich...They are buying the big victorian homes and restoring them. So maybe in my lifetime our neighborhood will be what it once was....

[Peregrinator 85]

generification

 

"Gentrification" is the term you're looking for, and it's not all that it's cracked up to be since it generally means folks with disposable income and no children.

[Basementdweller 608]

thx.......

 

The local once a week paper has an article about fairly frequently.....

 

 

it is a painful process....The new folks have zero respect for their neighbors. But seem to be more worried if they can get their house on HG TV.

[qwazse 4345]

Our district is about 80% suburban. Our troop, although meeting in a "country church" is full of families who I nickname "North Side Refugees". They have some of the best growing up stories (including visiting their classmates in the State Penitentiary).

 

Urban scouts have a wider variety of service projects. For example, my crew hosts a flag placement evening in a very large cemetery that includes otherwise neglected Grand Army of the Republic markers. It brings units from all over the district together in a part of town that they normally avoid. One SM from the suburbs was taken aback by the sheer history of the place.

 

On the flip side, there seems to be a disparity in camping opportunities. Some urban boys are attracted to our suburban troop because we get out more. I'm drinking my coffee right now where an urban youth ministry is trying to start a troop. They are two blocks away from our SPL, but I'm pretty sure I won't have to worry about them recruiting him. Boy-led gangs aren't very well favored around here.

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Agree with Scout Nut. Yes I think it determines what is "urban". I think those labels don't work too neatly anymore.

 

In Tampa some "urban" areas (multi-family, no parking, close to downtown, etc) are pretty well off. Some older 1950-1960's "middle ring" suburbs are in fact pretty poor and then you go further out in the boonies there is a mix of former poor rural towns and wealthy gated communities.

 

I live in a well to do "urban" neighborhood. Any of our Elementary schools nearby could raise 40K in a weekend fund raiser if they really needed to. That creates problems as well as some folks will build a pretty expensive scouting program if you let them.

 

In the poorer african american neighborhoods they are frequently single parent or grandparent. Hard to get them to participate. The hispanic neighborhoods seem to have pretty intact extensive families.

 

I think our Troop has a 1/4-1/3 single parent households, usually Mom. They want more male role models and good influences of scouting. They drop out more often, usually as to time commitment issues.

[tgrimstead 11]

Don't forget rural areas guys? Most are mid to low income laborers, migrant workers, small time farmers. Welfare and food stamps are just as common in rural areas.

 

Rural units are smaller in size and less funded. Less Units and long commutes. Popcorn sales are near nil. Most Packs are the size of Dens with 1 or 2 of each rank. My Troop had maybe 12 people at it's largest. Most Troops and Packs fold due to lack of growth.

 

Yours in Cheerful Service,

Tim

(Non-Rich guy who lives on Farm )

[qwazse 4345]

T, I grew up a townie in farming/mining county. Advantages:

 

Excellent campsites a walk out the back door. None our troop used were more than 40 minutes away.

Webelos DL taught you how to shoot his 38 special. We all knew gun safety since most of the cubs had already been taught shotgun or rifle by our dads or brothers.

Council HQ was a special road trip that SM would take as rarely as possible. (I guess folks who didn't like being a backwater saw that as a disadvantage.)

Shooting sports? Practice in your back yard.

Fire starting practice weekly on trash burn day.

 

The main disadvantage was the scout shop in our town wasn't viable. We wound up having to drive a ways to get uniforms, sleeping bags, etc ....

 

[Basementdweller 608]

Ya know what......Rural poor are different than Urban poor.

 

While the farmers I know are cash poor, they have a $100k combine in the barn or they just spent $30k on a tractor.....Their vehicles are capable of driving 100's of miles a day. They own, or the Bank, their own home. Gross worth is 100's of thousands of dollars to as high as the millions. I don't know of many full time farmers involved in scouting, they and their sons are too busy running the business.

 

Urban poor, typically are renters, may or may not have a car at all, if they do they only drive it at the first of the month and not very far because it is unreliable....Total gross worth would probably be less than $5k.

 

While both are cash poor there is a significant difference between the two.

[packsaddle 753]

'Rural' also means very different things in different places. In this area there are plenty of rural folks who have a run down mobile home on a rented lot out in the middle of the woods, who work for nearly minimum wage or are on some form of assistance. They don't have easy access to any kinds of government services. They drive cars that some of us would send straight to the crusher (and they may not have auto insurance) and some of the time they don't seek medical care due to costs or inconvenience. There ARE a few farmers who match what basement dweller describes and there ARE some families who are immigrants from south of the border as well. We don't see that last group very often in scouting. But all of them are rural - with very large differences in many aspects of their lives.