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illegal alien adult leader?

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Immigration and Nationality Act Section 237?

KC9DDI fails to appreciate the difference between civil and criminal law. Perhaps he slept through that day in high school civics class. The biggest differences are the fact that criminals may be subject to imprisonment, as well as being subject to the stigma of having a criminal record. Most employers, on the other handaren't too concerned about someone who has a zoning violation in their past.

Section 237 details those classes of aliens that are subject to deportation. Deportation is an administrative proceeding, not a criminal trial. Someone who is deported is not branded with a criminal record. Section 237 contains a laundry list of criminal offenses that may subject an otherwise legal alien to deportation, but it is not itself a criminal statute. While an alleged illegal alien may be detained prior to his deportation hearing, he is not subject to any criminal penalties.

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Blanc - That is correct, but it also seems like a matter of word games, as opposed to substance.


Yes, being in the country illegally is a matter of civil law, not criminal law. It is, however, a matter of law either way, and the common definition of a crime is an act that violates the law, regardless of whether it is pursued through civil or criminal channels.


That's all that I was getting at - wasn't trying to debate the difference between civil and criminal law. It had sounded to me like you were suggesting that violations of civil law were somehow less serious than violations of criminal law - I may have misinterpreted that, but I do feel that it's important that we DON'T give that message to our Scouts.

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Yes, being in the country illegally is a matter of civil law, not criminal law. It is, however, a matter of law either way, and the common definition of a crime is an act that violates the law, regardless of whether it is pursued through civil or criminal channels.


Nah, not really. "Crime" generally refers to somethin' that can get yeh jail time, whether a misdemeanor or a felony. Civil offenses are ordinarily called something like "infractions" for which yeh can be fined or have some privilege taken away (like losing your driver's license for too many points).


Most people, even in common parlance, don't consider folks who commit civil infractions "criminals", except in jest. Like Blancmange says, a speeding ticket or a parking ticket or a notice that yeh let your grass get too high while you were out on vacation just doesn't rise to da level of "criminal". Same with a fellow who overstays his visa. Often enough, that can be an engineer that a company needs who was busy with a project and just forgot to renew, or a mom who overstays her tourist visa because her son got sick and is in a U.S. hospital. So we don't consider overstaying your visa a "crime".


Doesn't change da answer, though. I wouldn't call attention to the fellow or have him submit paperwork that would lead to potential problems, but I would take him to see a colleague who specializes in immigration law to help him do what he needs to do to stay with his family without a lot of hassles.




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Crossing the border illegally is only the beginning. Every day an illegal immigrant stays in the country they violate the law again. Acts of fraud to acquire false identification and lying on employment applications is routine.


Then there are the newspaper headlines we can imagine---


" ICE raids Cub Scout Meeting and Arrests Cubmaster" or whatever.


Personally, I solicit membership for Cub Scouts and do not inquire into their immigration status. The BSA youth application does not inquire into the immigration status of a youth. But the Adult Leader application does make such inquiries by requiring a SSN and doing a background check which would presumably reveal whether that SSN is legitimate.


The background check might reveal other issues about the legal status of an illegal alien.


So in my opinion Illegal Aliens are not suitable candidates for Scout Leader positions.

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An illegal alien should not be in ANY position of leadership in the BSA. Illegal alienage presents so many unseen problems that it is not worth the trouble. There are reasons for immigration laws and controlling who can work and reside legally in the U.S. As citizens, we should know who has been admitted into our communities. We do not know when they are here illegally.


Aliens need to be screened for criminal backgrounds, health issues and many other things so they do not adversly affect the society they want to live. When aliens are legal, they drive with a license, carry insurance, are accountable for their actions, pay taxes legally, are not health threats from foreign deseases, appreciate the American culture, ect.



Title 8 United States Code 1325 is a criminal law that is punishable as a felony for illegally entering the United States without proper immigration documents.

Title 8 United States Code 1326 is a criminal law that is punishable as a felony for illegally re-entering the United States without permission from the Attorney General.

These laws are prosecuted everyday in every city.





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What you should be doing is reporting him to ICE, so they can pick him up and have huim deported. Its every citizens duty to insure that people that are not supposed to be here are properly deported back to where they come from.


If your not willing to do your civic duty as a citizen of this country, then I suggest you seign because your not setting a good example for the scouts.

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Even after over a quarter of a century being called an "Alien" Still gets up my nose a bit!

Yes I've been here a while.

No I don't intend to ever at any time become an American citizen.

I'm very happy just remaining what I am.

Maybe? One day I will return to either England or Ireland.

Two countries where I am a citizen.

My wife (HWMBO) And son are both Americans and are very proud to be so.

I'm narrow minded enough and selfish (Can't think of the right word!) To allow myself to think that just because I paid through the nose everytime I visited the American Embassy in London to get my Green Card (Which isn't green!) That it's not fair that others get away with it.


I do see that a man or woman who may have arrivied here without having all the tees crossed and the I's dotted and has a child who is an American citizen might very well not want to leave his kid here in the land of the free and get on a slow boat to some place not so nice or some place where he or she might end up in a jail or dead.


Maybe it's just me?


I get a little concerned when I see that some people think having someone who hasn't been checked out, had the background check done. As being an OK person to tag along with Scouts at camps and whatever.

This seems in a lot of ways to defeat the purpose of having a background check to start with.

Surely the goal has to be to do everything that we can to keep all our kids safe and free from harm?


I think if the guy /girl wants to fill out an application and see what happens?

Then that's up to the person. -Their choice.

I'd be happy to go along with whatever comes out after the application come back.


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Ok Guys+Gals, here's something to think about the COST ( I'm not yelling just emphasizing(sp)) may be prohibative to renew/visa or to process for green card may be the problem.My neighbor(British) said her renewal of Visa was going to cost her $2000 so she said it was easier for her to apply for citizenship ($700) so she did and has become, but she is an RN with a good salary and thus could afford it, maybe this father doesn't have the same financial options.So find a supportive role that he could help with somewhere else than ASM. I bet if he had the $$ he would make himself legal in a heartbeat.Beavah and Momof2cubs you are on the same page. I know of a person now that came here legally with a Visa, it has expired, for that person to stay here they have to come up with the $ or go home and apply for visa again, this could take up to 10 yrs, so they are staying and slowly saving the $$ up. Should I turn them in? they are working at a job that nobody (including a teenager) would do or what?

they have to come up with the $$ I mentioned or go home and apply for a new visa , which could take up

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Yes I enjoy all the books and the TV shows.

My little sister was a solicitor then went on to become a barrister.

Great little story.

She was appearing in the High Court in Oxford. Defending some guy.

The night before she took a VCR evidence tape home to view.

The tape got stuck in her VCR.

The following morning she took the VCR to some sort of a repair shop in Oxford.

The repair took longer than she thought it would.

Oxford is pedestrian friendly (No cars in the city center.)

So just before the case was due to start, she was seen sprinting through the streets of Oxford wearing her wig and gown.

After all that, the Crown won and she lost and the guy ended up in the clink!

You win some and you lose ...


(I bought HWMBO the sweat-shirt from the PBS store.)

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