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Basementdweller

DE VS Unit

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Well, Just about had it with my DE.......

 

Just got off the phone with him regarding fall recruitment. He is hacked off because I have not turned in ALL of my youth applications. Well I don't have ALL of the youth paid for their membership and no I am not giving you applications for unpaid youth.

 

The history is last year I turned in ALL of the applications whether they were paid for or not and the DE proceeded to access our UDA account to pay for them all and draining the account. He did not have permission to do so.

 

So he gives me the lecture about insurance and advancement and I am not being very scout like about this. I responded with, If you, DE, would like to front the money out of the pocket for these youth please do so.......

 

I think that I am just about done with scouting........The amount of money I have fronted youth and gotten stiffed, the amount of financial aid applications, the thankless hours of paperwork and planning. The ungrateful scout executives, district executives, parents and scouts. The district is only giving us 2 weeks to complete our charter and turn it in.. Just about done....

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Concur with you. It's not an application without a check attached. Debiting my unit account would have generated a not so nice phone call to the SE. That money belongs to the CO, not the Council to apply it where they see fit. Outrageous!

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Deep breaths ... I get the whole feeling of wanting to just chuck it all. Time to refocus on what is important and give the jerk the attention he is due - which is none.

 

Papadaddy is right - it isn't an application without the money. Ask the DE just how excited he thinks the SE would be to find out he is pressuring units to turn in non-existent applications? National auditors aren't particularly fond of padded membership numbers ...

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This was on top of a real nasty phone call last night from the Districts FOS chairman regarding his desire to have someone at the Blue and Gold banquet......And my telling him that he was welcome at the November Pack meeting or the January Pack meeting but not the Blue and gold. He said I can't not allow them to present at the blue and gold......Well it wasn't pleasant and he started yelling at me thru the phone......I hung up when that started.

 

It degraded to the point of telling him if the presenter showed up at the blue and gold he would be escorted of the CO's property. We have some friends in the LEO precinct close by that I would have help have the presenter removed.

 

This is regarding the excluding my boys from district events by requiring an adult with every cub scout at every council event and NO siblings permitted.

 

 

Just about had it.

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The same thing happened to us last year with our new scout applications. Needless to say, we took the same approach this year that you did. We will not and cannot front money for scouts that 1. won't pay/won't approach us about not being able to pay and 2. may never be seen again. However, we haven't had the same problems that you seem to have had with your DE.

 

In terms of FOS, we had a big discussion at our last committee meeting about the importance of doing one. I told the committee that we would continue and that those families wanting to make a donation could, while those that didn't weren't obligated to do so. It's seems that maybe national has changed its approach on where it wants presentations done as our district is also looking for a Blue and Gold.

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Here's how I handle this ... (the registration part ... for the peacemaking part you're on your own) ... let's call it the "what applications?" strategy:

 

Only register the paid youth. Let the unpaid youth know that they are not on the roster until they put money behind their paperwork. That means they can come to pack meetings but not activities. At each den meeting if they bring a dollar until they are paid up, then you'll register them.

 

Tell your COR and your DE that's your plan unless some generous donor comes forward to underwrite the registrations.

 

If your DE says those kids are uninsured send the parents a note "I'm sorry, I was just informed by Mr. ____ that you can't be in the program until you pay him his money!"

 

In your situation, you can no longer be fronting youth. Aside from the hit on your wallet, it will only add to your resentment.

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In our council it's assumed that if you turn in an application, and $ is not attached to the application, that the cost of registration comes out of the unit account. I'm not sure what else the DE was supposed to do with the applications if they weren't going to be paid by someone? Was he supposed to hold them until you showed up with a check?

 

The scouts are sort of covered by insurance if they are checking out scouting and haven't registered yet. However, when this goes on for weeks/months of coming to meetings without paying, well, I think it reaches a point where they wouldn't be covered by insurance if something happens.

 

in our pack, we recharter at the end of November (for year ending December 31st)

when we register new scouts in August, we take enough payment IMMEDIATELY to cover the scouts thru the end of December. and then advise parents there is a second payment due in November that will pay for the whole next calendar year. That allows us to break the cost of scouting into two parts make it easier on the parents. we basically charge $40 down and $40 in Nov, and both of those payments include registration, boy's life, insurance, a new book, partial cost of the adult registrations in the pack (we do a leader app on the scout parent in each family to get the minimal background check done).

 

I would go to the families and tell them like it is. In no other activity can you go and participate without paying to register. couldn't do it in soccer or football or chess club or anything else. Tell them the minimum payment that will get their son registered, and set up a payment plan for the remainder of any fees the pack needs to collect to run on.

 

Let them know once they begin to participate in fundraisers and become and active part of the pack, that they can apply for help with the fees(or pack will cover up to half the cost for the next year if the boy participates fully in popcorn sales in the fall for instance)But for now, they have to cough up some money.

 

And if they don't pay something and make arrangements to pay the rest, hand them their application back. It's tough, but if you allow the parents to not pay, then that is exactly what they will do, not pay for as long as possible.

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I feel your pain, .... I was a CM master once in a galaxy, far far away.... well not really that far.

 

HERE'S MY TAKE NOW AS A UC FOR A CUB PACK

 

#1 - I agree with, "what applications" - until it's paid (however you COLLECT it) it's not complete.

 

#2 - FOS presentations are at the invitation of the unit... period.

 

#3 - I refuse to speak on the phone to a yelling/rude person. Finish the call with " I have taped this call"," and all further communication from you must be in written form", then hang up.

 

#4 - I would not worry about Scout-age guests not being covered under the BSA insurance, because they are. But I would restrict them to the Pack Meeting with parent/guardian (no outside activities, PWD, ETC) since registration is not complete - no heath contact info). Make sure everyone in the pack knows this.

 

 

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Well lets put some perspective here, a unit account at council can be used for any unit expense or debt to said council. BD I agree with you 100% that your DE acted innappropriately and you should be upset, but any council would have done the same thing when you turn in applications with no fees, all they care about is getting those numbers recorded and paid for any way possible. As far as FOS at the Blue & Gold, you are well within your rights to deny access, if they don't like it too bad.

 

Dealing with some councils can be difficult but once you learn their MO you can work around them. In the case of my crew I go to council once or twice a year, our crew does not use the councils camp or any of their facilities, our crew refuses to sell popcorn.The crew does make an annual FOS contribution, but does not allow any FOS rep to any crew meeting. I have had a couple of DE's challenge me in the past, but as a former Sr. DE when I tell them exactly what they are and are not allowed to do as far as dictating to the unit they backed off and we never heard from them again. You see we are the largest(50+% of the venturing membership), most successful, and oldest crew in the council. The SE knows where I am coming from and we have developed an understanding over the years so no one messes with us anymore. Maybe you can have a heart to heart with your SE and get that DE off your back. Good Luck!

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Well, that's just all very unpleasant. It's amazing to me how they think they can tell your unit what to do.

 

You are in charge of your unit. They are there to help you put on a good program. If they aren't helping, you don't need them.

 

We don't use unit accounts. We tell the district when we will do FOS, and sometimes we've told them we won't do it, and sometimes we've told them we'll do the presentation ourselves, and sometimes we'll invite them, but on the dates that we specify.

 

You don't need lectures. You need help. It sounds like you are really close to burnout and you need to give these tasks to someone else, or at any rate, you need some way so that you don't have to care so much about every little detail.

 

So play a little game - for every request that comes in, see if you can either say no, delegate it, or give it back to the person who made the request.

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That is why I did not turn in the unpaid applications, because I knew he would access the money in our UDA account again.

 

I am to the point if mom, dad, grandma or grandpa don't have cash in hand of not letting them sign up......

 

 

No I am not in charge of the unit....my committee is I am following what they want.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

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Basementdweller, just curious ... what is your position in the Pack? You do seem to be the front guy for a whole lotta stuff and maybe you can start telling your committee it isn't your job ... so you can just focus on the boys.

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Heh, heh! THIS is proving to be a lively topic this morning!

 

 

It's not uncommon for units to fail to turn in paid applications until they recharter, and this costs BSA and the council money they ought to have, and District Executives are there to get those applications completed and processed.

 

As a district membership chair, I'm highly motivated to do that too. Still, my brand new district executive goosed me to send in our pack membership roster to him so he could check it for any unpaid memberships. I wasn't too happy about that missive, but I turned it in anyway and he notified me yesterday that he didn't find any unpaid memberships. THAT was a waste of time!

 

When I'm helping with pack recruiting nights, I only collect and turn in PAID applications. My own experience is that additional payments typically come in at the next meeting or two, and DEs are entitled to want to get those completed and turned in.

 

In my council, the DEs can't process an application unless it's been signed by the unit leader. I think that helps prevent abuses.

 

 

I schedule a recruiting night, a den meeting the following week and a terrific outing that next Saturday. Families that don't pay for memberships at the recruiting night can pay for them at the den meeting, but they must be paid in order to attend the outing. That provides an incentive for families to pay.

 

Also, the pack charges $5/month dues, so at our September recruiting night we collect $20 for the remainder of 2011. Families can pay for 2012 pack dues by selling $200 in popcorn, and we do a site sale at that September outing to give new families the opportunity to participate in the popcorn sale if they wish to do so.

 

Our September outing was at the US Army Corps of Engineers locks in Seattle:

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=ballard+locks&hl=en&rlz=1T4GUEA_enUS381US381&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=aVGgTpS4JK39iQK6ku1Z&ved=0CIgBELAE&biw=1024&bih=540

 

 

Our popcorn site sale that Saturday was at the main entrance to the locks, and sales were quite good, and a lot of fun for boys and families since we had a crowd of Cub Scouts there.

 

"Hello, would you like to support Scouting by buying Cub Scout popcorn?"

 

We trained everyone in the fundamentals of selling popcorn at the outing.

 

 

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Following MomToEli's point, I would think it should be your Committee Chair's job to deal with applications, recharter, etc. As a Cubmaster your job is program for the Pack, period.

The business of the DE is pretty much that of a glorified customer service rep., and what they do should be fairly transparent to you as the Cub/Scout Master.

The District committee bunch may have a little more impact on your job from time-to-time, but you can pretty much pick and choose your battles with them as well.

Perhaps you don't have a good Pack committee to help carry the load with some of this stuff, and if that's the case, I totally get your frustration level.

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