Will Girl Scouting Do a Better Job Developing Future Leaders Than Boy Scouting?

[Cubby's Cubmaster]

This is going to be an interesting post.

 

I know that we talk (and write here) a lot about leadership and being boy-led. Leadership IS the main reason I have my son in boy scouts and why I encourage him to be in it. As I tell other leaders that prefer adult-led...my son and I don't need to join scouts to go on outings. We do that anyway. A reason I encourage him to be in boy scouts is to learn to lead and work well with others. I firmly believe that Boy Scouting is the best place for training boys to lead. In boy scouts, the crucible for leadership and peer interaction is the patrol. We boy scout leaders spend a lot of time encouraging boy leadership and getting to the ideal (and 'Holy Grail') of a boy-lead troop.

 

My view is that some of the scout skills and methods we use are a bit outdated and not overly useful in the 21st century. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE scout skills. And my enthusiasm for them is contagious. However, how useful really is it to know 10 knots or so, 5 lashings and to be camping in a tent as frequently...to name a few? Now some will say, ABSOLUTELY very useful. But I ask myself, HOW OFTEN do I use scout skills at work and home? Rarely is my answer. Outside of scouting, when was the last time I tied a knot (4 times in last month--same one didn't need to know a taunt-line hitch), a lashing (never), needed to live in a tent (never--and hopefully never!). I realize that scout skills is a tool to get to an end--and we all agree that one of those ends is LEADERSHIP.

 

So, I found it interesting this Saturday morning when my girl scout--whose fraternal twin is a my new boy scout--said, "I'd like to earn an award like by brother". So I looked up Girl Scout awards, she is in 6th grade and can earn the Silver Award. However, while searching for the GSA awards to earn, I found a link I posted below on the NEW GIRL SCOUT LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE that GSA recently rolled out. Frankly, I was very impressed. It puts the the boy scout leadership training (and adult leadership training, too) I've seen to shame. Rather than focus on self-directed goals (like merit badges) it puts leadership on all the girls. Badges have their place but selecting, leading and doing a service project is the cornerstone of demonstrating leadership. Being an Eagle scout myself, I know that the eagle project is comparable and usually larger than the Girl scout project--depending on scout, troop & council. However, they way that GSA has put leadership as THE focus of their program shows me a lot. Click on the link below. Boys are already behind on standardized tests, going to college, graduating from college, getting into medical school, etc. etc. It won't be long before more boys will be staying at home and girls out working. I think that we and the BSA should take notice and determine if we indeed have a 21st century program that prepares our boys to be future leaders and future bread-winners. The GSA certainly seems to be ready to do that for our girls. Kudos to them.

 

http://www.girlscouts.org/gsle/

 

Regards,

CC

[momof2cubs]

Interesting. I have NO experience with GS. I wasn't one and I only have 2 sons.

 

However, I was under the impression that there is some flack against BSA for making it a boy only organization. It was my understanding that a lot of parents of girls were very interested in boy scouts because it is a more "robust" program than GS. I guess they were wrong.

[acco40]

The Bronze, Silver and Gold award are nice because they formally allow the younger girls to grasp on to leadership earlier than in the Boy Scouts.

 

I think their is too much emphasis on earning the Eagle rank as a goal and not as a process along the way to learning the other things that the Boy Scout program has to offer.

 

Plus, if the real focus is a junior leader training vehicle, I'd suggest JROTC or something of that nature.

[Eagle92]

Don't know much about Girl Scouts. But here are my impressions based upon conversations.

 

1) Lots of girls drop out b/c they are bored. This is based upon conversations I've had with young ladies when I talk up Venturing.

 

2) Girl Scout activities do not provide a challenge. Again this is from what I've been told by leaders. I've actually had GSUSA leaders come into a boy scout shop and buy materials to help out their program.

 

3) Not visible in the community, seems as if you only see them selling cookies, and only by the cookies.

[ScoutNut]

First of all, there is no such organization as GSA. The name of the organization is Girl Scouts of the United States of America - GSUSA.

 

Second, BSA, and GSUSA, are DIFFERENT. Not better, or worse, just DIFFERENT. They are organized, and run, completely differently. It is unfair to BOTH organizations to try to compare them.

 

While this current incarnation of the Girl Scout Program is supposed to be focused on being the best leadership program in the country, I do not think it will make that goal. Their program 8-10 years, and 2 programs, back, in my opinion, did a much better job of encouraging service, and leadership, in the girls.

 

Many girls find the Journeys not well written, at the best, and downright boring at the worst. The Bronze, Silver, and Gold awards have had their teeth pulled, repeatedly, as they have been re-written for each new incarnation of the program.

 

Girl Scouts, like Boy Scouts, is what you make of it, and how good, or bad, the experience is based largely on the quality of the Troop leaders.

 

If your daughter is interested in awards, there are some she can earn, the Girl Scout Silver is only one. As a 6th grade Cadette, she is old enough to do her own research into awards, and activities, that interest her. I suggest she talk to her Troop Leader, and the other girls in her Troop.

(This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

[clemlaw]

>>>>>Now some will say, ABSOLUTELY very useful.

[resqman]

The public perception of scouting is growing a boy into a wilderness survival expert with knot and first aid skills. They know the highest rank is Eagle and they are supposed to be impressed that a scout earned his Eagle rank.

 

Scouting is about challenging a boy. Learning the specfic skills of knot tying, tent pitching, hiking, etc are fun to know but not terribly important in the overall scheme. The primary goal is to take boys out of their normal environment of parent and adult led activies and ask them to do new activities they have never done before. As the scout learns these new skills, he begins to develop self confidence that he can learn new things, outside of a traditional classroom dominated primarily by women. He finds that he can push his body farther, longer and harder than he though before.

 

How often do we use knots in our daily lifes in typical surburan USA? Not very frequently. But how often will a scout have to cook a meal in his life? How often will he have to work with a group of people to accomplish a task?

 

I have been a participant at all 3 national high adventure bases. It changes the way scouts view themselves and how they interact in the world. Not that they can hike, or paddle, or sail long distances. But because they have the inner self confidence that they KNOW deep down inside that they have been tested and they triumphed over mental and physical hardship. If they can hike, paddle, or sail for a week on their own, they can accomplish any silly little task put before them.

 

Much of the traditional scout skills are smaller challenges that over time build the basis so the scout can be successful at larger tasks.

[JMHawkins]

I think Scout skills have great value for three reasons.

 

One, boys are attracted to them and consider them fun, so they'll willingly, enthusiastically, spend time working on them. A food drive might be a worthy project, but the typical boy just isn't going to be as excited about organizing a food drive as a backpacking trip. He won't be as enthusiastic about cleaning up the local park as he is about lashing together a monkey bridge.

 

Two, it's much easier to tell success from failure with Scout skills than with a generalized "leadership" skill. A knot either holds or it doesn't, a tent either stays up or it falls down, and the right trail leads back to the trailhead where the cars are parked and the wrong one leads to an empty parking lot. Most leadership challenges are less clear-cut in their results, because "leadership" is usually most in demand when the situation is confusing different people are pushing different agendas. Odds are someone will be at least a little unhappy at the end and there will be plenty of blemishes on the project. About the only real way to judge success or failure of leadership is to judge success or failure of the project, and that requires a project with some real challenge to it and a clear threshold of success. Back to the Food Drive example - was the Scout successful in his leadership or not? If one can of soup gets collected? One hundred? What's the bar? A scout doing nothing but Service Projects won't develop the same sense of confidence in his abilities as a scout doing a 50-miler because there will always be that nagging doubt.

 

Three, Scout skills - from the boy's perspective - are a lot less arbitrary than most of what they experience in the rest of the world. Why is it important to clean up the park? Why does he have to do his algebra homework? Because some adult authority said it was important. Why is it important to know how to cook his own breakfast on a camping trip? Because he's hungry and no one else is going to cook it for him. There's a subtle but important sense of control - spend too much time working on things that seem arbitrary and I think there's the risk that the young man will grow up without a sense of control over his world, that he's at the whim of others. Scout skills carve out a place for him to be master of his own fate, and experiencing that is really important.

 

 

[AlFansome]

Cubby-

I also have fraternal twins, also in 6th grade, also in GSUSA and BSA respectively. I've been a Cub Leader since 1st grade, soon to be Scoutmaster of my son's troop. Have also been actively involved in GS since brownies, from Try Its to Junior Badges to cookie sales and now taking 6th grade girls on 10 mile hikes with 2000+ ft. of vertical change.

 

Some truths as I see them:

 

- Leaders mean everything in the Girl Scout program...much, much more so than in Boy Scouts. With a great leader, you get a great troop that's active, challenging and interesting. My daughter's current leader is an ex-cop, current teacher and has taken on a troop of 48 6th-8th graders. She is able to harness all the girl energy and the scouts really seem to respond and enjoy doing their program.

 

- In Boy Scouts, the program has much more structure and "meat" as it were and it's much easier for a Scout to self-direct and set goals since milestones are much more concrete and frequent.

 

- Boys and girls are inherently different especially in the 11-14 year old middle school years. The Journey that my daughter is working on is nothing at all like anything that a boy would need or want, since it's all about inter-personal relationships, getting along socially with other girls, and deal with subjects that boys need less practice or help with for whatever reason (as I see it).

 

- I think both programs (when done right) can do an excellent job of preparing boys and girls in different ways that are appropriate to the audience. However, the GS model can break down easier (I think) since there is less structure inherent in the program if a committed, involved adult leadership team isn't present, just as a boy scout troop can be just Webelos III if adults don't get out of the way and let the boys run with the program.

 

 

[83Eagle]

To answer the specific question in the OP, I believe the answer is yes. The Girl Scouting program emphasizes leadership through service much more than the Boy Scouts and does so at an earlier age. My daughter, age 11, has been leading younger Brownie/Daisy troops for two years. Each of her badges also requires completing volunteer service related to the topic.

 

That's my impression anyway as it relates to the specific issue of leadership. Now if you'll ask me which does a better job of teaching youth other skills I might have a different answer.

 

Oh, to the point brought up about girls being bored in the program...it all depends on the program. I see huge differences in the level of activity between different service units and different troops. Typical for Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts as well.

[BDPT00]

Just curious...

I know the values, and the Aims of the Boy Scouts are clearly stated. What's the latest word on what GSUSA stands for?

BDPT00

 

[kari_cardi]

'Being an Eagle scout myself, I know that the eagle project is comparable and usually larger than the Girl scout project--depending on scout, troop & council.'

 

I am glad you qualified this, because it isn't my experience at all. I am familiar with the scope, responsibility and leadership skills involved for projects by 3 Boy Scouts (2 different troops) and 3 Girl Scouts (also 2 different troops), and the GSUSA projects IMHO were stronger projects.

[shortridge]

BDPT100,

 

From the GSUSA website: Girl Scouting builds girls of courage, confidence, and character, who make the world a better place.

 

From the BSA website: The Boy Scouts of America is one of the nation's largest and most prominent values-based youth development organizations. The BSA provides a program for young people that builds character, trains them in the responsibilities of participating citizenship, and develops personal fitness.

 

Both statements are equally full of mission-statement babble. Reading the Oath and Law or the Promise and Law won't get you much farther into understanding their "values." All are extremely vague.

 

I suspect what you're driving at is the difference in two of the three Gs. Yes, BSA bars gays and atheists; Girl Scouts accepts them. No change since the last debate.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Adam S]

I have sooo many thoughts about what you said, Cubby's Cubmaster

 

1. Is the world only comprised of leaders? By my thinking thats's the mentality that offshored everything BUT mangement...

 

2. "However, how useful really is it to know 10 knots or so" I am a firefighter I have saved lives with many things I learned in scouting, ESPECIALLY knots, I use them EVERY SINGLE DAY

 

Those points made, we are helping these boys become citizens who respect the world they live in and can cook for themselves without a microwave. I think that is pretty spectacular.

 

"It won't be long before more boys will be staying at home and girls out working." If we outsource everything, when do they finally realize they don't need American management? The reality is I know lots of people and in the last several years the ones back to work the fastest are the ones who were Scouts. Coincidence, maybe, I doubt it, but maybe... A fair number of them are in totally new careers because there priorities were focused on taking care of their family and they learned a variety of skills as scouts, including the most important one, "try everything, learn as much as you can"

 

Leadership is one thing scouting imparts but should it really be the only thing? If so, why bother with scouting? Enroll your kids in PMP certification classes and get them into Wharton Business school... As for me I will let my kids be kids, I will keep them in BOY Scouts as long as they want to be and hope they enjoy is as much as I did, I am pretty confident they will come out as contributing members of their community

 

 

 

[BartHumphries]

Look at the light bulb in the center of the following linked picture. Almost every Boy Scout award (except for the tiny ones like Totin' Chip eventually comes back to a service project. From Second Class and on, every rank advancement requires a service project. If service is the standard by which future leaders are measured, then Boy Scouts who are earning any awards and rank advancements must also be doing service projects.

 

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/bubbajoe12345/scout/BoyScoutAwardDependencies.png

 

Boy Scout troops are also (theoretically) boy led. If practice makes perfect, then the Boy Scouts should be getting a whole lot more practice leading and planning than the Girl Scouts do.