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Beavah great post.


I agree.


But the Male ego is a fragile thing, What would those peacocks at round table do? They couldn't strut around with their wood badge beads and chest full of knots, checking out the competition as it were.


I have a formal uniform, all the knots, patches and do dads. all measured out per the inspection sheet. My normal meeting uniforms are clean except for troop number, council strip and position patch.



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"Awards are a different beasty. I confess I really dislike adult advancement and awards. I think it sends da wrong message and attracts the wrong sort of people to the uniform. Folks who are a bit more in it for their own ego needs than in it to serve the kids."

I agree completely too. Beavah said it perfectly.

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Brent I owe you an apology.


I am sorry that my reference to strutting peacocks insulted you. But if the shoe........well lets not go there.


The ribbons on Baden Powell's chest are military in origin, not scouting as I am told. The source was reliable but I have been wrong before.


Ya know this is a really stupid discussion in an age when scouting is trying to remain relevant to our youth.


Brent if a shirt full of ribbons and medals makes you feel fantastic and successful, have at it my friend.


I measure my scouthood, fatherhood,manhood and success by a different standard.



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Scouting must be very different where all of you live. In all my years of Scouting, I can't say that I've ever seen a Scouter who was "in it for their own ego needs than in it to serve the kids." I know lots of decorated Scouters, most of them long-time SMs, who are very deserving of every award they received, and then some. Sorry to hear you guys are surrounded by problem Scouters, and messed up Districts.

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You don't owe me apology, though this does appear to be a reoccurring theme. I'm not insulted at all, certainly not by you. Yes, those were military ribbons - they didn't have leader knots back then. Does that make him more of a peacock for wearing non-Scouting awards on his uniform?


I've been to some of those "silver critter awards" ceremonies - not for me - and I had a completely different experience. I came away with my batteries fully recharged, inspired from hearing about the super-dedicated leaders in our council. Maybe it's just different being in a big council. It is plainly evident that the recipients have dedicated most of their adult lives to Scouting, and they didn't do it for a "silver critter." I fail to see how giving them one night of recognition is a bad thing. I believe our council holds ours annual event on Wednesday nights, when nearly all of our Troop are not meeting, so the event doesn't interfere with any youth activities.


So, Beavah, in all your years of Scouting, you have never nominated anyone for the Silver Beaver or the DAM? For any awards? Interesting.

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I'm not anti-award, but I'm not a big proponent of the adult awards either. Too much emphasis. Seen plenty of scouters--particularly district and council level--that are quite affected with their own achievements and not the scouts' advancement.

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Brent, it is of course impossible to know what is in the mind of any person with absolute certainty. In that respect I accept your point. However, actions and reactions to situations give powerful clues to motives. When a leader, in order to persuade, refers to himself and his impressive array of knots...when his words tend to be about him and his actions call attention to him, these things are not evidence of his selfless devotion to the boys.

I have seen this in some leaders...I admit, fewer today than in years past.

I am not comfortable with the application of the GOBN, as a term, to scout leaders or groups of scout leaders. The GOBN with which I am familiar (and I admit this is a personal view) in this region, is one that applied to a primarily male socio/political group that was designed to maintain a status quo and exclude 'outsiders' or persons with different or opposing views. And while I think there are leaders whose service is more about them than the boys, I believe the GOBN concept is not applicable to scouting, at least not at the volunteer level.

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To a certain degree I have to go along with Beavah on this, but not to the degree he proposes.


Like any well-meaning effort on the part of people to recognize and/or honor others who are doing something special for the organization, there should be some sort of award. Maybe a plaque that can be hung on a wall or tossed in the bottom of a drawer, or maybe a bauble to hang on the shirt. I guess it doesn't make a whole lot of difference one way or the other.


I have seen those who have a plain uniform shirt with minimum patches and then there are those who have so many knots on them that there's no place for the universal scouting patch. I don't have a problem with any of it.


However, what I find a problem with, and which harkens back to what this thread is all about is how these recognition awards are not recognizing the person in as much as they are symbols of who is and who is not in the GOBN. On another thread there was some discussion on whether or not non-WB people should be getting woggles and/or beads. The initial knee-jerk would imply that the GOBN would lose control of who got them and who didn't and the dynamics of the network would be disturbed.


Our DAM nominations come from a "committee" of those who already have the award and who gather at the roundtable meeting. Sure, others can nominate, but they have a snowball's chance in hell of ever getting considered. If this doesn't smack of GOBN, what does? As I mentioned I got "in" under some rather different circumstances (promoted by a DE who would like to see the process change a bit), and ever since I have been politely invited into the committee to nominate the next DAM awardees. I politely decline because I don't know who half these people are and how they operate in their units and what they are providing for the scouts and others in their communities. Someone from the unit needs to get that down on paper and make a nomination separate from a "review committee" whose focus is relying on who did what for the district this past year. Sally Mae did the Cub Day Camp, Judy did the Pinewood Derby and John headed up the Spring Camporee. Their focus is district only and thus the DAM award is as been suggested, interpreted as district only considerations.


Nope, for me I want to look at a nomination form that is filled up front and back of all the things the ASM of a troop did to make it happen for the boys, and the work he does on his church council, and his involvement with the Rotary Club and the fact that he coaches Little League in his free time. That's the Scouter that isn't in the GOBN but deserves the award for the fact that he actually lives the Scout Spirit he teaches his boys.


So, I'd be on-board for an adult award for this person and wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to totally do away with adult awards because the process has been somewhat tainted by a few GOBs.





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Yah, jblake, I think if we did away with all of the adult medals and awards, units and districts would still find ways of recognizing scouters whom they felt merited recognition. It'd probably be more personal and meaningful. I remember when one well-loved SM moved on due to a change of employment, da kids and families all chipped in and bought the fellow a new backpack, then embroidered the names of each of his scouts all over it. Not a dry eye in the house when that was brought out. Sure beat a knot.


Gee, did it take receiving a dozen or more awards to make you realize how much you dislike them? That's not what I would call "quick", Beavah.


Yah, I'm not too bright, am I? :) Actually, didn't care much for 'em from the start. Cared less for 'em over time. Other folks kept puttin' me up for the things. Only mentioned it here because in half of these threads when someone critiques adult awards they get jumped on for being louts who probably never earned any awards themselves and are jealous :p. Figured I'd run that off in advance.


Do I nominate other folks? Not usually. For unit leaders who deserve recognition, I encourage somethin' like I mentioned above. Same deal for district or council folks who do things for kids. For district and council folks who deserve an attaboy for administrative stuff, I take 'em out for beverage of their choice. ;)




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