sharing space with homeless shelter??

[hendrickms24 20]

Lone-Scout,

 

Your opinion of veterans that have problem are the same as the US military. They are some how not man enough or are not real good soldiers. That's not true and that's why they are not getting the help they need. Many Soldiers and Marines coming home from the current wars are committing suicide by an alarming rate but the press or the government is not letting the country know because Veterans that have medical and mental issues are not worth the money to get them help. Veterans benefits are always one of the first things that cut from the budget and always will. In today's wars there is no front lines. My old army buddy was a signalman in Iraq but went out on patrols just like the infantry. More and more men and women are seeing combat then in wars before so we are seeing more mental problems. So don't make blank state about veterans with problems.

 

Mark M.

[John-in-KC 311]

Where is everyone going over the top with all this???

 

I look at flyingfish's OP. I see a church which has elected an element of social ministry in a small town USA. Their leaders ... and remember, they are the Chartered Partner, decided, I trust in prayer, to meet a need God had sent them.

 

Their Troop, remember, the Chartered Partner is the licensee of record, is asked to step up to the plate. Sounds like that's going to happen.

 

Seems to this retired soldier, and Veteran, and son of a PW who defended Corregidor, that this is all OK. The church is doing what I'd want it to... getting the social safety network away from government and back into the hands of local people.

 

It's wholly reasonable for the SM, CC, COR, and IH to sit down and chalk talk things through. Be Prepared is our motto.

 

Seems to me some folks are forgetting the Scout Law and the Citizenship Aim of Scouting ... for that matter forgetting the Adult Association Method. Who here doesn't think kids can learn lessons from people who're on the tough side of life.

[BDPT00 41]

I agree with John. Our Aims are Citizenship and Character, not starting fires and shooting arrows. We need to remember the big picture. Safety first? Sure! Was a danger stated? No.

We're a service organization (GS too?). Sounds like a potential golden opportunity for the Scouts, and a win-win for the church.

BDPT00

[Lisabob 13]

The degree of interaction between the girl scout troop and the men in the homeless shelter is a question that should be discussed between the leaders of the girl scout troop and the church. There are a lot of variables involved, including the age of the girls and the setting.

 

I don't think a situation like what basementdweller describes is something any of us would be pleased with. But I also don't think that's the situation that was suggested by the original poster.

 

Many people like to blame the homeless for their condition. There is certainly a stigma. In some cases, it might even be appropriate. In a lot of cases, there are some heart-breaking circumstances that snowballed beyond people's abilities to manage. Most Christian groups have, as part of their mission, service to those who are less fortunate. What would it say to the church, if the girl scouts got all upset because the church was trying to minister in accordance with the tenets of their faith? If I were a church leader and that happened (after, of course, taking the reasonable precautions mentioned in the first post), I'd have to think that the Girl Scouts needed to get a grip on reality. Hosting girl scout meetings is less central to the mission of most Christian faiths than helping those who are truly in need.

 

Well-off, secure, families understandably want to shelter their children from harsh realities, but too much sheltering results in self-absorbed brats with no capacity for sympathy or charity. We have enough of those sorts of folks in the world already.

 

Again, it comes down to the age of the girls, the specifics of the situation, and the ability and willingness of the adults involved to sit down and have an honest and respectful conversation about how this will all work out. It certainly doesn't need to be a major problem. (By the way, I never took a sociology course in college...)

 

 

[IM_Kathy 32]

the thing to remember - regardless of what type of shelter and the type of men staying there is that we are talking about Girl Scouts who have a totally different set of rules in regards to men and facility usage. Right or wrong - they have their rules about sharing buildings, restrooms, and the like. Because of this the leader of the Girl Scout troop needs to check their Safty-Wise book and if that doesn't answer their question then they need to contact their council.

[John-in-KC 311]

Kathy,

 

Since GSUSA uses a centralized management system for units, vice the license/charter system of BSA, please can you expand a little on your post about what GS Troop leaders should do in this situation?

 

TIA

[TWOMORROWS 10]

Doesn't anyone else find these statements to be troubling?

 

"Why on earth would a troop, boy scouts or girl scouts subject their kids to an environment such as the one basement mentions? Again, I wouldn't allow it in a million years, that is, the kids in my charge being subject to that environment and calling it Scouting.

Kids should be out starting campfires with flint and steel, catching, cleaning, and eating a trout, making rope bridges and towers, shooting arrows, canoeing, and all that good stuff. They will see the seedy side of life soon enough and if they go to college, they'll be forced to take Sociology and really have it fed to them.

I'd pull my kids out of scouts in a second if their program steered away from scoutcraft and outdoor skills and into areas where my kids would be in any proximity to vagrant drug users and alchoholics."

[Lone-Scout 10]

 

(This message has been edited by Lone-Scout)

[Stosh 3452]

Not everyone in the hospital is in the psych ward.

 

Homeless shelters are not the same as rehab centers and to classify everyone who's down on their luck as alcoholic, drug addict, serial killers, probably isn't a rational conclusion.

 

I met a homeless man in Kansas City. During the course of my visit with him at lunch time, I found out he was college educated, recently laid off and because of that his wife divorced him. Of course his stint in the shelter was only for about 4 months at that point, but he had a lead on a job and was looking forward to getting the pieces of his life back together. I didn't think to ask him if he was an alcoholic or check his arms for needle marks, and I forgot to ask him if he had killed anyone recently. He was articulate and friendly and those subjects didn't seem to come up in the conversation, maybe I should have asked.

 

I'm not an alcoholic, never done drugs, haven't killed anyone and yet when I was younger I was homeless for about 2 months until I got a part-time job that allowed me to rent a room for $12/week. It was in the dead of winter in Wisconsin and kept warm and slept in a chair at the state unemployment office while waiting for any job to open up.

 

Like I said earlier, maybe one ought to find out who these men are that the church wishes to help before drawing conclusions.

 

Stosh

[John-in-KC 311]

"The safety net is in place for women with children...WIC, Medicaid, health cards, USDA food stamps, cash grants, Section 8 housing."

 

The Nanny-State, which we decry so much in our units (How Many Threads about Adult-Run Troop Method) is epitomized in this comment!

 

This church is trying to get back to where American society should be: Local people, not government, are the safety net.

 

Our Aims are character, citizenship, and fitness. Our program vehicle is the outdoors. Don't confuse the two.

 

Anyone have insights on how the Baptists, with their AWANA organization or Royal Rangers, handle youth working with social ministries these days?

 

I know that one kid in my parish did his ELSP refurbishing the social ministry building on our property ...

 

[ScoutNut 147]

As Kathy stated, GSUSA is way different from BSA.

 

Safety Wise is the GSUSA version of Guide to Safe Scouting. It lists all of the rules and regs that a Troop should follow.

 

Since the local council owns its GS Troops, it is the council's responsibility to approve Troop meeting places. If there is a question of suitability, the Troop should talk to their Council Service Rep and get the situation "formally" approved (or denied) as a meeting place for the girls.

 

Since the Troop can't seem to agree, that seems to be the best way for them to go. That would put the decision for their moving on the council, and not on the Troop leaders ("sorry, its not us, it's council's rule"). That would also help protect the relationship between the church and the Troop.

[Basementdweller 608]

To explain the situation a tad further.

 

This all happened in my sons Tiger year, I did not know the other CO or the Pastor involved in throwing us out. It was not the CM that ticked the Pastor of but the SM and the Pack was thrown out in the aftermath.

 

Everything was great at the other church until it started getting colder. We joined in July so we had 5 months or so in the Pack before we started having problems with the drunks and drug abusers trying to stay warm entering the building.

 

On more than one occasion we had an adult male jump out of the bushes and scare the crap out of our mothers. We had a drunk guy walk into a Committee meeting thinking it was an AA meeting, when asked if we could help and once he realized it was a boy scout meeting he asked if he could have a few dollars for gas money. We had a mom that was gonna actually give him some, I stopped her and suggested that he was just going to drink it.

 

There was never any toilet paper because the homeless stole it, and they peed on the floor in the bathroom, that entire area of the CO stank like urine. We cleaned it every week and every week we returned the same thing.

 

We worked the soup kitchen once a month on Saturday morning. We had to stop because of the fights and verbal abuse we were subjected too. On more than one occasion I felt in imminent danger.

 

When the scout count dropped to 5 my son and I moved on to another Pack. The Pack is still there but it is down to the CM kids and nephews.

 

There probably is decent homeless folks just down on their luck. Everyone who says it is a small town and it is different, I disagree. Some pretty horrible things happen in small towns too. If you believe it can't happen there you are sadly mistaken.

 

A college educated man homeless for four months????? I bet here is much more to the story.

 

If you decide to stay, please be on guard and super wary of the men and situation

[Nike 94]

The GS troop leaders, probably 2 or 3 parents, need to get with thier Service Unit Manager, the "District" administrator, and someone from the Council office to go over the physical layout of what is being proposed. If the Council decides they don't want the potential adverse situations, then they need to help the troop locate a new meeting space as well as still assist the outreach mission of the church so there are no hard feelings.

 

I think most priests and vestries can put themselves in the shoes of the girls' parents.

 

 

 

 

[SSScout 1616]

I'll not waste the space with the whole poem, but, Lonescout, I recommend to you a bit about "Tommy Atkins" by Rudyard Kipling:

http://www.web-books.com/Classics/Poetry/Anthology/Kipling/Tommy.htm

 

The homeless are not only one type of person. Each are made needy by their own history, and only that history can be blamed for that person's trouble and particular need.

 

Safety issues can be met, Scouts can learn from example and lesson.

The church can follow it's ministry. I see no real conflict. Communicate your concerns, solve the problems. Serve both the youth and the troubled adult.

[Basementdweller 608]

There is a price for every lesson.......