Wedgies

[CNYScouter 46]

One of my WB patrol members was telling us about a situation his Pack was having.

He stepped down in June as Cubmaster to take over the Packs WEBELOS II den.

 

In August the Pack went to Cub Resident camp.

At this camp the new CMs 14 year old (male) next door neighbor was a CIT.

 

One afternoon he loudly announced he was going to give this kid a Wedgie.

He had the boys in the Pack cheer him on and they were all cheering while he was doing this.

More than one parent was upset over this.

There have been other incidents since June with this new CM but this was by far the worst.

It was reported to the Pack Committee, CO and SE.

 

Here is where the major players stand on this incident

 

CO and COR want nothing to do with this situation and are leaving it up to the BSA.

 

Pack Committee see nothing wrong with this and do not want to do anything.

 

Old CM thinks the new CM should be asked to step down for a year. If he wants to continue to as a leader after that he will need to repeat all the training. He also thinks that the Pack Committee should all have to retake YPT. I agree with this as did the other patrol members.

 

SE it is in his hands to make a decision.

 

What should happen to this new CM?

 

I am meeting with my WB patrol tonight and should find out the SE decision.

 

[madmike 10]

did the CM give the wedgie or his neighbors kid?

 

either way thats not a good thing to encourage

[FScouter 24]

What's a wedgie?

 

[CNYScouter 46]

From Wikipedia:

The wedgie is a joke maneuver done to humiliate someone. It is inflicted when someone grabs the victim's underwear (from the back) and pulls them up between the buttocks.

 

The CM gave the Wedgie to the CIT.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I love the esoteric data one receives from the internet, where I went to school that was known as a "hinder binder" the victim was bounced up and down supported soley on his underwear until the waistband ripped off the cloth. This trophy was then brandished about while a great celebration and frivolity was had by all (minus one of course)

 

From a scouting perspective the cubs now know such a thing is permissable in scouts and may either fear receiving one some day while others are planning their first use of this knowledge. I can see it now in the 4th grade class.

 

"Boys, where did you ever get the notion to do that to Bobby?"

 

"Oh Teach, thats just a wedgie, Mr Moron our cubmaster showed us all about them at summer camp"

 

[evmori 11]

Well, in my area there are two types of wedgies. One is like a hoagie made in pizza dough. The other is when someone grabs you skivvies from the back & tries to pull them up over your head. I would guess the CM was referring to the 2nd.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter 24]

Hmmm ... It sounds like a poor choice was made in selecting a person to serve as Cubmaster. If the committee sees "nothing wrong with this", it sounds too like poor choices were made in selecting adults to serve on the committee.

[SemperParatus 1]

CM has made a serious blunder which has called into question his fitness to lead a group of young, impressionable children. I would be surprised if the SE makes a decision or gets involved. The Pack Committee needs to handle this issue and come to terms with the inappropriate behavior. If it is their position that it was a 'just fun', then suggest that their own children be lined up at the next pack meeting and let the CM administer multi-wedges to everyone's delight.

 

Bad decisions have bad consequences. It is time for him to step down or be dismissed. A year away with retooling sounds reasonable, although I would always be wary of this person in the future.

[SR540Beaver 116]

FScouter: "What's a wedgie?"

 

They are those wonderful, crispy deep fried potato wedges they serve with fried chicken fingers at the mom and pop gas station/convenience store/deli's along the highway's.

 

What? Ohhhhh, that kind of wedgie. Nevermind.

[Eamonn 61]

I think just about every sane person will agree that the CM was out of line and showed poor leadership along poor judgment.

Many years ago, when I was a young leader we rented our local swimming pool every Thursday. While a lot of time was spent working on Lifesaving, Swimming and that sort of thing. Most weeks ended with the Scouts trying to dunk me under the water. I would pick them up and toss them away, but it really was a free for all. It was all done in fun, no one ever got hurt or harmed in any way. But those were the good old days. I know that I wouldn't do it today or encourage anyone else to do it.

I still do playfully give a Lad a softish punch on the arm and have been known to give both male and female Scouts a hug -Normally after they have received an award of some sort.

It's more of a big handshake than a real hug.

Any way back to the Thread.

We agree the CM was in the wrong.

The $64,000 question is what happens next and who does it?

While the old CM,could be very much in the right, he is no longer the CM. He is a Den Leader and should devote his time and energy to leading the Den.

If the CO and COR are not willing to do anything, the parents who were upset over this need to let the CO and the COR just how unhappy and upset they are. They need to let the CO know that doing nothing is just not acceptable. They also need to convey their feelings to the Pack Committee.

After the CO and the Committee have made a decision or ruling they need to talk to the SE.

The SE will feel a lot better working or dealing with this situation if he knows he has the backing of both the Pack Committee and the CO.

I do have some very serious concerns about the Webelos Den Leader, just because he served as CM doesn't mean that he walks on water or is without sin!! If he starts meddling and interfering in the background, he is not serving the pack. My fear is that he will make a bad situation worse. He is going to be seen as an interfering old busy body!!

He doesn't have a voice on the Committee and his demands will be seen as unreasonable.

Most members of the Pack Management Committee do not work with youth members and do not need to take YP Training. While having the CM retake YP might be a good idea, I fail to see what good will come from having him redo NLE and Specific Training's. My feeling is that if you send an idiot to training you end up with a trained idiot, send him twice and you have a re-trained idiot.

If the final outcome of this turns out to be that nothing happens (Which is what I think is going to happen.)

Someone? A Commissioner or the Pack Committee Chair should have a chat with the CM and explain that what he did was wrong and why it was wrong.

[Aquila calva 10]

The parents of the 14-year-old need to know what their next door (adult) neighbor did (is doing?) to their son. They may regard this behavior as being too intimate.

 

This "joke" is all about humiliation.

[Beavah 205]

Da thing that seems to be missin' here is what did the 14-year-old CIT think about the whole thing? For all we know, the two families are neighbors and best friends, and this sort of male frivolity might be very much a part of their "culture." If the boy and his parents think it was a fun joke, then it's kind of hard for a stranger to object, eh? On the other hand if da kid and his parents are upset, then it really doesn't matter if da Committee thinks it was all in good fun.

 

Yah, teachin' wedgies is not the perfect example we'd want a CM to give. But I've known few perfect people. I certainly have misjudged circumstances hundreds of times, or just been a dolt.

 

Give him da benefit of the doubt unless there's prior history or evidence of malice. Tap him with a cattle prod and whack him over the head with the heaviest legal tome on abuse and harassment yeh can find, but don't sit him in an electric chair.

 

And as Eamonn suggests, da former CM needs to butt out of this entirely and stick to his role of supportin' da CM and program as den leader.

 

 

[scoutldr 732]

It doesn't matter what the CIT thought about it. The laying of hands on a scout by an adult for the purpose of humilating or embarrassing is one of the definitions of hazing, and indeed, child abuse. This is clearly a YP violation and reporting it to the SE is the only proper response. In some jurisdictions, it could be considered assault and battery.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[Eamonn 61]

scoutldr

I don't think anyone is going to disagree that what happened was wrong.

But the discussion seems to be about what happens next? And who does what?

Most SE's are not going to step in if they know that the Committee and the CO are not doing anything.

An SE is not going to go out of his way to upset a CO.

As far as "In some jurisdictions, it could be considered assault and battery"

That might be so, but someone would have to report it.

If the 14 year old and his parents are not going to then who?

Yes it was a very stupid and dumb thing to do, yes it goes against the YP guidelines, yes the guy who did it needs to be informed that it was a stupid and dumb thing to do.

Sure you or I know better.

But if no one does nothing -Nothing happens.

It is up to the "More than one parent was upset over this" to take the action that they feel is needed.

As FScouter has said it would seem that some poor choices have been made, but unless the CO or the Pack Committee makes a move, they have what they got!

The SE in most cases will not get involved.

Eamonn.

 

[Beavah 205]

It doesn't matter what the CIT thought about it. The laying of hands on a scout by an adult for the purpose of humilating or embarrassing is one of the definitions of hazing, and indeed, child abuse.

 

Yah, sorry scoutldr, but yeh need a refresher on the law, eh? This does not meet the definition of either hazing or child abuse in most if not all states in our great nation. And if da CIT and his parents don't file a complaint, it's neither hazing, nor abuse, nor assault, eh? I think we weaken our case when we throw around criminal terms for effect (and we may also be committing libel:( ).

 

The question as Eamonn suggests is "whose problem is it, and what should they do?" We all agree it's a problem. In this case, it might be da SE's problem, since the CM wedgied a boy scout who was under the supervision of the district as a CIT. So the SE is confronted with a dumb act done by a CO's unit leader to a different unit's boy under the council's care. The SE can talk to the gentleman, or can talk to the CO and turf it to them, or can ban the guy from future district events, or can take action on his BSA membership.

 

The appropriate action probably depends on what the boy and his parents' feel, eh?