New Induction Ceremony

[Mrjeff]

Noone was move vocal then me concerning the re-develement of the ceremony aspect of the OA.  I just watched the national presentation ( you go Emma) concerning the new Ordeal ceremony.  I admittedly changed my mind.  The national Chief and Vice Chief have a great plan to introduce the new material and I think it looks pretty good.  I am personally excited th participate in this endeavor and put my whole support as this transition moves forward.  Sure I'll miss the AIA aspect and will have fond memories but I encourage all members get on board and support the positive changes.

[Eagle94-A1]

From talking to youth and adults who have seen the new ceremony , it is not as good. Folks were promoting the final current ceremony, saying you really don’t want to miss out.

 

[Tron]

I get the whole shift away from anything first nation related/culturally appropriated; it's an unnecessary headache. I don't think it's the biggest issue at hand though, useless lodges and garbage advisors should be the #1 priority to fix. National was supposed to fix the advisor issue this year but decided to just make it easier for adults to join the OA. There really needs to be some sort of max tenure for advisors to get the old rotten blood out of the lodge leadership structure (yes, let us face it, the youth are not leading the lodges). 

[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, Tron said:

I get the whole shift away from anything first nation related/culturally appropriated; it's an unnecessary headache. I don't think it's the biggest issue at hand though, useless lodges and garbage advisors should be the #1 priority to fix. National was supposed to fix the advisor issue this year but decided to just make it easier for adults to join the OA. There really needs to be some sort of max tenure for advisors to get the old rotten blood out of the lodge leadership structure (yes, let us face it, the youth are not leading the lodges). 

IMHO, the OA made a mistake in the 1990s when they changed the election process. Prior to the change, I saw only 1 troop, get all three elected, and the SM told them how to vote so that it was possible. Now having everyone elected is the norm. And they doubled-down on adults with SMs automatically getting in.

As for old blood running things instead of the youth, I agree, but it needs to start at the national level first.  I do not know what the current stats are, but at one time maybe 10% of the National Committee were youth.

[Tron]

10 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

IMHO, the OA made a mistake in the 1990s when they changed the election process. Prior to the change, I saw only 1 troop, get all three elected, and the SM told them how to vote so that it was possible. Now having everyone elected is the norm. And they doubled-down on adults with SMs automatically getting in.

As for old blood running things instead of the youth, I agree, but it needs to start at the national level first.  I do not know what the current stats are, but at one time maybe 10% of the National Committee were youth.

I don't know, I took some time this afternoon to research the BOD and it's pretty solid. All members seem to have done well in life and are pumping a lot of money, influence, time, and other resources into the scouting movement. I'll break the BOD down into 5 sub groups. 

Of the 42 members currently on the BOD, 22 are Eagle Scouts, 1 other that was a scout as a youth but didn't make Eagle; all have been highly recognized in and outside of scouting with awards or decorations.  

4 non-scouts that are decorated military veterans; not sure if I would be able to find any other non-scouts that could understand scouting better than people like this. 

2 highly recognized professionals in the camping and camping management industry (not counting the ones that are Eagle above).

3 bankruptcy, restructuring, and merger legal experts. 

8 highly recognized, decades long volunteers, who have received awards inside and outside of scouting. 

2 super rich dudes just doing it for scouting and America. 

A lot of these people live fairly private lives so there could have been more that were scouts, more that are parents of scouts, this is just a summary of easy to find information on the national website. Over half are Eagle Scouts, seems like a good amount. 

[Eagle94-A1]

10 hours ago, Tron said:

 (yes, let us face it, the youth are not leading the lodges). 

 

6 hours ago, Tron said:

I don't know, I took some time this afternoon to research the BOD and it's pretty solid. All members seem to have done well in life and are pumping a lot of money, influence, time, and other resources into the scouting movement. I'll break the BOD down into 5 sub groups. 

Of the 42 members currently on the BOD, 22 are Eagle Scouts, 1 other that was a scout as a youth but didn't make Eagle; all have been highly recognized in and outside of scouting with awards or decorations.  

4 non-scouts that are decorated military veterans; not sure if I would be able to find any other non-scouts that could understand scouting better than people like this. 

2 highly recognized professionals in the camping and camping management industry (not counting the ones that are Eagle above).

3 bankruptcy, restructuring, and merger legal experts. 

8 highly recognized, decades long volunteers, who have received awards inside and outside of scouting. 

2 super rich dudes just doing it for scouting and America. 

A lot of these people live fairly private lives so there could have been more that were scouts, more that are parents of scouts, this is just a summary of easy to find information on the national website. Over half are Eagle Scouts, seems like a good amount. 

 

For an organization that claims to be youth led, we got a lot of old fogeys running things

[Tron]

12 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

 

For an organization that claims to be youth led, we got a lot of old fogeys running things

I am not sure what you're trying to illude to here? By quoting both posts are you trying to say youth should lead local lodges AND the national BOD? 

[HashTagScouts]

28 minutes ago, Tron said:

I am not sure what you're trying to illude to here? By quoting both posts are you trying to say youth should lead local lodges AND the national BOD? 

I think  more than one thing is being conflated. The OA maintains a National Committee (National Order of the Arrow Committee | Order of the Arrow, Scouting America). There are four youth that serve on that committee- the National Chief/Vice Chief and the two Region Chiefs. Often, meetings of the committee occur at events where section chiefs are in attendance and may sit in, but they are not voting members.

There has been noticeable change in Lodge Adviser/Associate Lodge Adviser membership in the ten years I was involved as an adult, but yes, historically those roles were places that individuals became set (and stayed for life in some cases). Many individuals from other lodges I interacted with were great people/mentors/Scouters, but there were some that hadn't been in unit-level positions in 2+ decades, and you had to question some of their comments as to whether they had lost a bit of the connection to what unit-level Scouting is/should be. 

 

[Eagle94-A1]

56 minutes ago, Tron said:

I am not sure what you're trying to illude to here? By quoting both posts are you trying to say youth should lead local lodges AND the national BOD? 

 

It sounds as if you want adults running things. If that is the case, then OA needs to stop being advertised as youth run.

And yes I do think youth should run both the lodge and national. I have seen first hand what happens when adults interfere and ignore the youth, and you are seeing it too with lower interest and membership.

 

[Tron]

4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

It sounds as if you want adults running things. If that is the case, then OA needs to stop being advertised as youth run.

And yes I do think youth should run both the lodge and national. I have seen first hand what happens when adults interfere and ignore the youth, and you are seeing it too with lower interest and membership.

 

You think national should be ran by the youth? I've been a volunteer for a long time now, consistently the youth struggle to stick to an outing budget, you think they could steer the national organization? You're just trolling now. 

[Eagle94-A1]

2 minutes ago, Tron said:

You think national should be ran by the youth? I've been a volunteer for a long time now, consistently the youth struggle to stick to an outing budget, you think they could steer the national organization? You're just trolling now. 

 I have seen, met, and in a few cases  know personally regional and national OA officers. Bill Hillcourt said it best, "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" (sic)

[Tron]

4 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

I think  more than one thing is being conflated. The OA maintains a National Committee (National Order of the Arrow Committee | Order of the Arrow, Scouting America). There are four youth that serve on that committee- the National Chief/Vice Chief and the two Region Chiefs. Often, meetings of the committee occur at events where section chiefs are in attendance and may sit in, but they are not voting members.

There has been noticeable change in Lodge Adviser/Associate Lodge Adviser membership in the ten years I was involved as an adult, but yes, historically those roles were places that individuals became set (and stayed for life in some cases). Many individuals from other lodges I interacted with were great people/mentors/Scouters, but there were some that hadn't been in unit-level positions in 2+ decades, and you had to question some of their comments as to whether they had lost a bit of the connection to what unit-level Scouting is/should be. 

 

I think this is an important point, "hadn't been in unit-level positions in 2+ decades". There is another part of this, the unit level leader without current or any historical experience at the district or council level. I got "in trouble" recently when I failed to constrain my voice. A unit leader who has never been a district or council level volunteer wanted to know "why our district sucks so much and never helps the units" and I just blurted out in response at the meeting "who the F@#$ do you think the district staff is and where do you think they come from?" which apparently this dude, who supposedly has been involved in scouting for 40+ years though the district committee was a paid staff of professionals.