First Scout week trip in 31 years

[Armymutt]

Tomorrow I head off on my first Scout week trip since the summer I turned 19.  Back then, the troop consisted of my Scoutmaster who had been in the troop since 1933, the ASM who had been in since around 1960, my friend and fellow 18 y/o ASM, me, and three kids we recruited out of the 5th grade class of our old school at the beginning of the school year.  We had a great time at our old camp - water skiing, motorboating, pioneering, a float trip, an overnight canoe trip, and various evening activities.  I haven't been to a council camp/merit badge factory since the summer before I quit Scouting in 6th grade.  We'll see how this goes.  It's my son's first one.  I intend to keep my distance from him as much as possible.  He'll need to be his own person at the end of July when he attends another camp.  

[Arkie]

Best of luck to you! Look forward to reading a recap.  

[qwazse]

Hopefully the WiFi is so bad that you won’t read this until the week ends. Have a hand time!

[Armymutt]

Well, we survived!  Lots of learning by the adults and the Scouts.  For our part, we learned that we need some new policies and procedures.  Low hanging fruit is a cellphone policy.  Phones were serving more as a distraction than a tool.  Scouts sacrificed water bottles in favor of extra batteries in their pockets.  Scouts ignored youth leaders and adult leaders while playing games or watching videos.  We also realized that there are youth protection issues with cameras and internet access.  So, a policy banning internet-capable, camera-capable devices will be in place shortly.  We also realized that there is a major lack of Scout skills among the senior Scouts who have joined the troop.   We are working out a plan to form a Junior Scout Patrol for every Scout under the rank of First Class.  This will be divided into teams with an ASM assigned to each team.  The focus will be on drilling the basic skills - knots, first aid, camping skills, cooking skills, etc.  We will have an extra camp out each month as needed to put these skills into practice in the field.  

I completed IOLS, so that's out of the way.  It was generally considered worthless for the content, but valuable for some connections made by those in attendance.  We had 12 participants, 2 women, 1 never been a Scout, 1 Life for Life, and the rest Eagles from the 90s/early-2ks.  We lamented the current culture focused on advancement over mastery.  

The Cherokee Scout Reservation in Old North State Council puts on a great summer camp.  Their Aviation MB is top notch with about 8 decent gaming-level simulators in a room.  They have a wonderful first year program called FROGS that covers many of the requirements on the road to First Class.  They don't finger drill it either.  The Scouts start each session with a full on flag ceremony and end with the same.  They work at a skill until they are able to do it repeatedly with confidence.  Consequently, they can't complete everything, but what they do get through is pretty solid.  There is a lot of walking.  I am going to add a hash mark to my 50-miler patch.  I walked 54 miles this week.  It's a mile from our camp site to the main area and another mile from there to the water front.  You'll get your hill workout.  The food was pretty good.  The camp director really cares about the program and Scouts.  He pulls no punches when dealing with transgressions.  There are some hard and fast rules that will get you sent home immediately.   There were troops who drove 3.5 hours to come to this camp.  

 

[mrjohns2]

On 7/5/2025 at 7:20 PM, Armymutt said:

We also realized that there is a major lack of Scout skills among the senior Scouts who have joined the troop.   We are working out a plan to form a Junior Scout Patrol for every Scout under the rank of First Class.  This will be divided into teams with an ASM assigned to each team.  The focus will be on drilling the basic skills - knots, first aid, camping skills, cooking skills, etc.  We will have an extra camp out each month as needed to put these skills into practice in the field.  

This doesn't much sound like Scouts. Why not put the skills into practice in their current patrols on the normal upcoming campouts?

[Armymutt]

35 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

This doesn't much sound like Scouts. Why not put the skills into practice in their current patrols on the normal upcoming campouts?

What doesn't sound like Scouts?  I know a lot of troops who have a junior/new Scout patrol.  We just have 18 junior Scouts, so it would be necessary to divide them into separate teams or patrols.  The learning has to start somewhere.  When you don't have older Scouts going on campouts due to work, sports, or something else, there are no experts available.  A 10 y/o patrol leader isn't exactly experienced enough to dig into the handbook and put together a training class on his own.  The ASM needs to guide him.  Even the 14 y/o SPL lacks the maturity to get things done.  The normal campouts focus more on a merit badge and less on basic skills.  We just came off a week of merit badge factory summer camp.  Other than the morning sessions dedicated to doing some of Tenderfoot through 1st Class, no basic skills were trained.    

[mrjohns2]

They aren’t teams, they are patrols. They aren’t junior scouts, they are scouts or new scouts. They aren’t lead by an ASM, but by a PL and a troop guide. It’s been awhile, 31 years, I suggest reading the PL, SPL, and SM (Unit Leader) handbooks again. Words matter. 

Edited yesterday at 12:14 AM by mrjohns2

[Armymutt]

1 hour ago, mrjohns2 said:

They aren’t teams, they are patrols. They aren’t junior scouts, they are scouts or new scouts. They aren’t lead by an ASM, but by a PL and a troop guide. It’s been awhile, 31 years, I suggest reading the PL, SPL, and SM (Unit Leader) handbooks again. Words matter. 

Semantics.  I'd argue that anyone under the rank of first class is a junior Scout.  I wouldn't call one a new Scout after being in the troop for over a year.  Splitting the 16 Scouts into two patrols within the new/junior Scout patrol is far easier to manage than one single patrol.  The ASMs aren't leading the patrol.  They are assigned to them to advise the patrol leader.  The handbooks aren't a suicide pact, last I checked.  Right now, we have 11 y/o patrol leaders who can't get themselves straight, let alone teach skills to the rest of the patrol.  The 14 y/o SPL is likewise lacking in leadership competence, having failed to ensure patrol leaders and meeting focus on Scout skills.  In a perfect world, we would have older, more knowledgeable and mature Scouts who would keep the meeting focused.  Instead, we have an SPL throwing jello on the roof of a shelter at camp and wondering why no one is following his instructions.

It's been 31 years since merit badge factory summer camp.  Not Scouting.  Our OA chapter isn't much better.  I was trying to turn that around until the Army sent me 600 miles away for three years.  I've been supporting a troop at that location while simultaneously operating a pack and helping the OA in NC on the weekends.  

Edited yesterday at 01:20 AM by Armymutt

[Tron]

So we have a framework right. It's clear that adult leaders have to step in and instruct the senior scouts when there is a knowledge gap or lack of retention. This goes back to BP and his original Aids to Scoutmastership. The program has always allowed for adult leaders to step in; how we step in is critical though. My advice, which I would say is backed up by the solid century+ of the program and going back to the root (BP) is, in the absence of capable elected youth leaders, adults step in to teach those youth leaders and get them to the point where they are capable. 

In short it's a 2 part solution. Part 1) Adults are on hand and always willing to teach the PLC members what they need to do to teach, mentor, and lead the rest of the troop. Part 2) Constantly assessing if you're not being a lazy  fat slob by flopping on the phrase "Have you asked your SPL".

[Armymutt]

7 minutes ago, Tron said:

So we have a framework right. It's clear that adult leaders have to step in and instruct the senior scouts when there is a knowledge gap or lack of retention. This goes back to BP and his original Aids to Scoutmastership. The program has always allowed for adult leaders to step in; how we step in is critical though. My advice, which I would say is backed up by the solid century+ of the program and going back to the root (BP) is, in the absence of capable elected youth leaders, adults step in to teach those youth leaders and get them to the point where they are capable. 

In short it's a 2 part solution. Part 1) Adults are on hand and always willing to teach the PLC members what they need to do to teach, mentor, and lead the rest of the troop. Part 2) Constantly assessing if you're not being a lazy  fat slob by flopping on the phrase "Have you asked your SPL".

That's exactly where we are right now.  Most of the adults in the troop were not Scouts.  They took the youth lead concept to an extreme and now we have a patient that is sick.  I'm trying to avoid getting to the life support stage, much less CPR.  The oldest Scouts have succumbed to sports and the fumes.  Half the troop is under the age of 13 and a quarter is under the age of 12.  We are going to have to actually teach the PLC, such that it is, how to do the skills and then get them to retain the information long enough to teach it to their patrols.